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  1. #1
    mickey417 is offline Public Member
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    Default Do you know any "COMMISSION SHAVERS" ?

    if yes - go here affiliatesecure.com/gaming/
    and upload your "favourite" affiliate program
    (i hope that posting that url isnt against GPWA terms? - this is independent casino affiliates idea to create that "scanner")

    What does mean "COMMISSION SHAVERS" ?

    -deleting a player from the stats by an affiliate program like it never signed up through the referral link
    -diminishing affiliate revenues by substracting costs for illogical things like "costs for maintaining network" , "administration fees" or by using many other methods.
    Passive - when it is in T&C
    Active - its hard to quote all examples - every case when you feel that something is wrong , when you promoting 10 casinos powered by the same software provider , but one casino is "unlucky" and you cant earn on it (or your earnings are very small compared to others) , when while last 2-3 days of the month you can find suddenly only lucky winners in your stats etc etc.

  2. #2
    hakank's Avatar
    hakank is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by mickey417 View Post
    if yes - go here affilxxxcom/gaming/
    and upload your "favourite" affiliate program
    (i hope that posting that url isnt against GPWA terms? - this is independent casino affiliates idea to create that "scanner")

    What does mean "COMMISSION SHAVERS" ?



    -deleting a player from the stats by an affiliate program like it never signed up through the referral link
    -diminishing affiliate revenues by substracting costs for illogical things like "costs for maintaining network" , "administration fees" or by using many other methods.
    Passive - when it is in T&C
    Active - its hard to quote all examples - every case when you feel that something is wrong , when you promoting 10 casinos powered by the same software provider , but one casino is "unlucky" and you cant earn on it (or your earnings are very small compared to others) , when while last 2-3 days of the month you can find suddenly only lucky winners in your stats etc etc.
    Or as we call them.. Rouge..
    /Hakan


  3. #3
    GFPC is offline Private Member
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    Hey mickey,

    Stick around here for a few days and do some reading. Specifically the "Platinum Sponsors"
    You will see all kinds of shaving going on.


  4. #4
    grem's Avatar
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  5. #5
    casinobonusguy is offline Private Member
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    Grem if you make $10 with one program and $10,000+ with several other programs chances are the $10 program is messing with you .Sending test players and them not tracking or tracking but being sent to another casino without affiliate tags is another way to shave.Then there is always the database glitch , wake up one morning and 460 real players are gone never to be seen again ...really happened to me !OR have a really big player or two sign up and lose $20,000 and never show up in stats again ,not even to get a comp that happened to me as well I am sure I will think of a few more examples

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by grem View Post
    rogue

    My question is how do you catch shaving?
    I've tried a few methods, the obvious seems to be making a deposit and purposely losing, but that doesn't stop programs removing the player systematically after a few months. Really no way to catch it apart from suspicion, even if you do there is a million plausible excuses the program could use to justify what they have done. The lack of transparency from a lot of programs makes me wary to promote them...

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  8. #7
    theGman is offline Public Member
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    Default Commision Shavers

    What proof do you guys have that programs are suspicious ?

    Seems to me that you can just post whatever you like . Anyone with an axe to grind can complain or post that a program is suspicious.

    What is your methodolgy and have you shown your results to the Affiliate programs concerned and do you have any proof to back up what you are claiming.

    What do the Affiliate programs have to say re the matter ? Are you speaking to them re your findings and have you shown them your findings ?

    I find it quite amusing that you think Star Partners are ok and that Wager Junction is suspicious. Both are very old affiliate programs and both have decent reputations.

    So exactly why are Rewards Affiliates and Wager Junction suspicious. I would like to know ?

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  10. #8
    casinobonusguy is offline Private Member
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    You just have to go by your other stats to see if something is not right with a program.It may not be that they shave but maybe their bonus is not as appealing to your traffic.I would hate to be a new affiliate starting today because there is probably something negative written about all programs in the forums ,some things you just have to find out for yourself ,trial and errors along the way.

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  12. #9
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    I promote 10 sportsbooks. I have four that do very well by my standards, two that once in awhile give me a good month, two new ones I have to give a chance to, one does nothing and one (I will call it NADA) gives me a good amount of signups, again by my standards, but very few deposits and very little action. I have thought several times that Nada was holding back on me. I think my first 12 signups had no deposits, but how can I think he's shaving me when I have never heard a complaint from any other affiliates and how would I even find out?

  13. #10
    Renee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by theGman View Post
    What proof do you guys have that programs are suspicious ?

    Seems to me that you can just post whatever you like . Anyone with an axe to grind can complain or post that a program is suspicious.

    What is your methodolgy and have you shown your results to the Affiliate programs concerned and do you have any proof to back up what you are claiming.

    What do the Affiliate programs have to say re the matter ? Are you speaking to them re your findings and have you shown them your findings ?

    I find it quite amusing that you think Star Partners are ok and that Wager Junction is suspicious. Both are very old affiliate programs and both have decent reputations.

    So exactly why are Rewards Affiliates and Wager Junction suspicious. I would like to know ?
    When I queried this guy about why we were marked as Rogue (because that's what we were marked as to start with, then changed to suspicious) I was told that it was because several affiliates made complaints, but that they themselves had not tested yet. So they marked us ROGUE due to emails from "several" affiliates.

    When I asked to then change us to under review (since they had not reviewed us yet), I was refused until today when I got an email saying that since the tests matched, they have put us under review. If tests matched, shouldn't that be marked as ok?

    I was told that they did not find shaving activities in their first tests but that they will keep testing and that they think it's very reasonable to put our status as suspicious previously, not only because of the emails they received, but because they "feel" our practise of "cross-promoting without affiliate links" is something they do not approve of. To top it off, they also told me that the decision is final for now, so to save my time trying to convince them otherwise.

    Now I wouldn't have thought much of it, except there is a logo on the homepage of a banned user of most aff forums, and I received a very peculiar email on Friday.

    But whatever. I guess you can say whatever you want about anyone these days without proof and it must be true.
    __________________
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  15. #11
    GCG
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    When I queried this guy about why we were marked as Rogue (because that's what we were marked as to start with, then changed to suspicious) I was told that it was because several affiliates made complaints, but that they themselves had not tested yet. So they marked us ROGUE due to emails from "several" affiliates.

    When I asked to then change us to under review (since they had not reviewed us yet), I was refused until today when I got an email saying that since the tests matched, they have put us under review. If tests matched, shouldn't that be marked as ok?

    I was told that they did not find shaving activities in their first tests but that they will keep testing and that they think it's very reasonable to put our status as suspicious previously, not only because of the emails they received, but because they "feel" our practise of "cross-promoting without affiliate links" is something they do not approve of. To top it off, they also told me that the decision is final for now, so to save my time trying to convince them otherwise.

    Now I wouldn't have thought much of it, except there is a logo on the homepage of a banned user of most aff forums, and I received a very peculiar email on Friday.

    But whatever. I guess you can say whatever you want about anyone these days without proof and it must be true.
    The status ROGUE or SUSPICIOUS given I feel is not correct, but given the fact that players receive a lot of emails in which Casino Rewards is cross promoting brands without giving proper credit to the affiliate (I received 6 emails in November (newsletters / Bonus offers from other Casino Rewards Casinos) I feel the status "High (Affiliate) Risk" is more appropriate.

    We all know who that "banned user" is Renee and IMO transparancy is a good thing. At least he shows passion for honesty in this bizz.

  16. #12
    theGman is offline Public Member
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    GCG i think that what you have to say and contribute most of the time on the forum is great , sure Rewards has had their issues,this thread is not about those issues though , i am also not aware of any WJ issues with any affiliate,there is not a single complaint re them , then to regard Star Partner as ok , well that must take the cake. To stand up and say that a program is rogue or suspicious they need to have proof of it - it seems that they can not supply proof of any of this- therefore despite his passion for honesty - he should perhaps indulge in providing proof of his accusations , because thats what it is. If not then its all just more hot air and i think we know a lot about the amount of hot air that can spout from him as well.

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  18. #13
    GCG
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    GCG i think that what you have to say and contribute most of the time on the forum is great , sure Rewards has had their issues,this thread is not about those issues though
    Rewards still has the issues stated above.

    At the end of the month it is the same or even worse : In the first case the players ends up at another CR casino (chances are high not referred by affiliate first) or the earnings for the account is (partially) shaved in the stats.

    BB1Webs : If you are willing to sit quietly in the shadows and accept anything less than what you've rightfully earned then you not only deserve the screwing you got today, but also the one you're going to get tomorrow.
    IMO my buddy is spot on.

    "You reap what you sow" / "If anything can go wrong, it will"

    If you let programs treat us this way, more will follow suit if we do not speak up.

    To stand up and say that a program is rogue or suspicious they need to have proof of it - it seems that they can not supply proof of any of this- therefore despite his passion for honesty - he should perhaps indulge in providing proof of his accusations , because thats what it is. If not then its all just more hot air and i think we know a lot about the amount of hot air that can spout from him as well.
    I agree proof (with hiding some data to protect the tester etc) must be published, but let's wait and see. IMO it is a great initiative!

  19. #14
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    I agree that this thread was NOT about rogue casinos or groups in general (there are other active threads for those), but was more of a thread asking tough questions about whether others knew of any specific programs that shaved, as well as how to prove that theory.

    As far as actually catching groups, that is a tough one to start with.

    If you log into a group and see new players or netwin activity, one way to track this is to do a screen capture. (the easiest way to do this is "Ctrl Prnt Scrn" then open up your favorite picture editer such as Photoshop, or maybe even Word and paste the image. This will give you a capture of what was on the browser.

    Then if a few days later the player you had seen is gone, you have some pretty good evidence something happened and have docummentation that it should be investigated. (This is NOT automatic PROOF, but it is a start)

    Then like someone else has mentioned, having the place tested would be the next step.

    Someone mentioned that if one property makes you $10 and another makes you a bunch then the one at $10 is shaving....I do NOT agree with that theory since it is based purely on speculation...we have all seen 100's of times that some casinos just do not convert on a site no matter what we try and in the case just mentioned it could be due to that and not have anything to do with a program's honesty or integrity.

    Obviously if you find yourself in this situation, you are forced to continue to try different creatives, different spots, different offers etc etc etc... or just move on to other casinos on that site.

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