GP & eCOGRA...BS

**Anthony** · 22 February 2010, 6:45 am

We will all be interested in what Andrew has to say about the situation.

**giggles7p** · 22 February 2010, 6:57 am

Ditto on the exact same reply......can't even kiss off 58 webmasters separately....have to generate a bulk emailer?.........I guess we are nothing but pieces of **** in their world.

**GamTrak** · 22 February 2010, 6:57 am

Originally Posted by joeyl

Ecogra can't circumnavigate the lawyers any more than we can Gamgirl.

What should webmasters do next is the question.

That is true and they should not have been in it in the first place!

BTW If I sell I'm gonna use GamGirl as my new nick! lol Thanks Joeyl I'm gonna grab it right now!

Edit:

Threads: 42,732, Posts: 287,549, Members: 9,239
Welcome to our newest member, GamGirl

Done! Just incase I sell it ALL! hehe

**nitro** · 22 February 2010, 7:01 am

Originally Posted by joeyl

What should webmasters do next is the question.

I'll give you a hint: Stop to promote a microgaming casino that is not too long on the market and therefore heaviliy dependent on affiliate traffic and crush it this way. When nothing changes off to the next...

**Anthony** · 22 February 2010, 7:30 am

Originally Posted by GamTrak

BTW If I sell I'm gonna use GamGirl as my new nick! lol Thanks Joeyl I'm gonna grab it right now!

I like it!

**arkyt** · 22 February 2010, 9:17 am

Originally Posted by joeyl

You have pumped this Ecogra thing for all it's worth, rode roughshod and berated any player who dare speak.

Not everyone has pumped them up - that honor goes to a relatively small group invididuals and a minutely larger group of hangers-on who engage the former group as part of the clique because they consider it to be a viable way to boost their own status within the clique and thus the industry.

**nitro** · 22 February 2010, 9:24 am

Originally Posted by arkyt

Not everyone has pumped them up - that honor goes to a relatively small group invididuals and a minutely larger group of hangers-on who engage the former group as part of the clique because they consider it to be a viable way to boost their own status within the clique and thus the industry.

But the rest (and not just affiliates) can simply stop to cooperate with this puppet organization thus hitting microgaming this way.

**joeyl** · 22 February 2010, 9:27 am

Granted, "webmasters", but not all.

However, it was'nt nailed on this Ecogra initiative was going to be hamstrung this much.

I gave them 6 months, others are a bit more patient

**MichaelCorfman** · 22 February 2010, 10:19 am

Below I have repeated the paragraphs of the "official" eCOGRA notice sent to affiliates earlier this morning. And following each "official" paragraph I have provided my carefully considered view of what it means.

Originally Posted by eCOGRA

We have noted your concern raised as to the adequacy of the settlement amount recommended by the eCOGRA investigators.

We know that affiliates who submitted claims are angry with the results. This is one of many reasons we are sending you an e-mail message about what happened.

Originally Posted by eCOGRA

We would like to emphasise that our mandate from Grand Prive was to review all records provided by the company in respect of the Grand Prive Affiliate Program software and related database. We were not requested to review any other affiliate program system or information, nor were we made aware of any other system or pertinent information.

Grand Prive came to us saying that in hindsight they recognized it was a mistake to shut down the affiliate program the way they had and told us they would like us to sort the situation out and arrange for affiliates to be paid appropriately. On that basis we agreed to review the records of the Grand Prive affiliate program for affiliates that filed claims. We now realize that Grand Prive was being completely unethical and dishonest in their interactions with us. We cannot believe that they actually went so far as to engage us to investigate matters with the pupported objective of fairly resolving the issues while they purposefully and deliberately witheld the information necessary for us to do that job. At the time we believed them and so we agreed to help.

Originally Posted by eCOGRA

We are confident that the settlement amounts have been correctly calculated based on our mandate and the affiliate and player data provided to us by Grand Prive at the time of the review. Regrettably we cannot legally perform any further investigation work into this matter unless mandated by Grand Prive management. Such a mandate has not to date been forthcoming.

While we think we did a good job with respect to the player data that was provided to us, from the feedback provided by affiliates it is clear to us that there is more data we were not provided. We have gone back to Grand Prive and told them that we need this additional data and that the scope of the work we must do has to include this additional data. Grand Prive has told us to go jump in a lake, and that they have no intention of providing us with any additional data, or of cooperating any further with us to help resolve matters. We now fully understand what is is like to be a victim of an unethical organization like Grand Prive. J.Todd gets it right in the APCW videos when he transforms the Grand Prive logo saying "DREAM DARE PLAY" to say "LIE CHEAT STEAL."

Michael

**Webzcas** · 22 February 2010, 10:24 am

Michael,

Has Andrew actually emailed you back yet? Other than a standard form mail that all affiliates seem to be receiving who questioned the eCOGRA report and audit into the Grand Prive program?

**Caruso** · 22 February 2010, 11:01 am

That's just Michael's delightfully jaundiced interpretation of the eCOGRA bulk email.

Not sure exactly what Herr Bev is supposed to clarify? - eCOGRA has given its position.

Now here's an idea: why not let AGD do the investigation that they'd originally been planning to do before GP pulled the rug from under their feet?

Originally Posted by giggles7p

Ditto on the exact same reply......can't even kiss off 58 webmasters separately....have to generate a bulk emailer?.....

Made me laugh a bit.

How To Rub Salt In The Wounds, by E. Cogra. Get your copy now while stocks last.

**MichaelCorfman** · 22 February 2010, 11:04 am

Originally Posted by Webzcas

Michael,

Has Andrew actually emailed you back yet? Other than a standard form mail that all affiliates seem to be receiving who questioned the eCOGRA report and audit into the Grand Prive program?

At the time I determined what I felt was appropriate to say in the above post I had not spoken with Andrew, although he had sent me an e-mail message that provided some background information and a copy of the e-mail message sent to affiliates. So my post above was made knowing Andrew and reading between the lines.

Since that time I have had a phone conversation with Andrew. Nothing from my phone conversation with Andrew would cause me to make a decision to revise any statements I made in my prior post.

Michael

**MichaelCorfman** · 22 February 2010, 11:17 am

Originally Posted by Caruso

That's just Michael's delightfully jaundiced interpretation of the eCOGRA bulk email.

Not sure exactly what Herr Bev is supposed to clarify? - eCOGRA has given its position.

Now here's an idea: why not let AGD do the investigation that they'd originally been planning to do before GP pulled the rug from under their feet?

There is no way on earth that Grand Prive will agree to provide the records to anyone like AGD or the GPWA at this point in time. They are not even willing to give them to eCOGRA right now, and things have escalated to the point where eCOGRA made a decision to go public with that fact. This means that Grand Prive had to make it pretty clear to eCOGRA that the information was not going to be forthcoming any time soon.

For affiliates familiar with the situation, this is no surprise. However, for the rest of the world it is now an even clearer example of how ethically bankrupt the folks that run Grand Prive really are at their core. They won't even cooperate with an investigation they endorsed.

Michael

**joeyl** · 22 February 2010, 11:20 am

Wonderful.

Now what?

Am I being told this firm keep the Ecogra sticker?

**MichaelCorfman** · 22 February 2010, 11:32 am

Originally Posted by joeyl

Wonderful.

Now what?

Am I being told this firm keep the Ecogra sticker?

I think that is a really interesting and insightful question. From my perspective Grand Prive just spit in the eye of eCOGRA. And they spit in the eye of Microgaming too.

What do you think are the odds eCOGRA and Microgaming will just wipe the spit off their eyes and pretend nothing happened over the long term?

Michael

**GCG** · 22 February 2010, 11:45 am

What do you think are the odds eCOGRA and Microgaming will just wipe the spit off their eyes and pretend nothing happened over the long term?

100 dollar bet on nothing will happen and GP will just go on this year.

**TheCPA** · 22 February 2010, 12:05 pm

We now realize that Grand Prive was being completely unethical and dishonest in their interactions with us. We cannot believe that they actually went so far as to engage us to investigate matters with the pupported objective of fairly resolving the issues while they purposefully and deliberately witheld the information necessary for us to do that job. At the time we believed them and so we agreed to help.

I have to ask the obvious question if that interpretation is accurately reflective of how Ecogra feels about the situation.

If that interpretation is in fact accurate, then I would expect Ecogra to completely disassociate themselves with Grand Prive, terminate all Seals of Approval, and issue an agressive warning to the general public. Frankly, MGS should do the same.

There is NO WAY they can say the group is unethical, and dishonest,...then allow the status quo to remain, and allow them to use ecogra's seals of approval to advance their credibility.
This should happen post haste, asap,..... I mean right now!

**Anthony** · 22 February 2010, 12:23 pm

Originally Posted by TheCPA

I have to ask the obvious question if that interpretation is accurately reflective of how Ecogra feels about the situation.

If that interpretation is in fact accurate, then I would expect Ecogra to completely disassociate themselves with Grand Prive, terminate all Seals of Approval, and issue an agressive warning to the general public. Frankly, MGS should do the same.

There is NO WAY they can say the group is unethical, and dishonest,...then allow the status quo to remain, and allow them to use ecogra's seals of approval to advance their credibility.
This should happen post haste, asap,..... I mean right now!

I couldn't say it any better!

Microgaming and eCogra need to cut their ties with Grand Prive and acknowledge they are dealing with a dishonest organization.

**Dominique** · 22 February 2010, 1:24 pm

Actually, after viewing archived threads at CAP, it becomes clear that Microgaming is not just an innocent bystander.

Referspot had it's own stats system, and when Grand Prive decided to switch to a new affiliate system, it chose Microgaming as the provider.

It becomes clear from posts by the then acting aff manager for Grand Prive that Microgaming handled the integration. Hence, Microgaming is completely aware of the size of the database and will be able to tell eCOGRA exactly how much and perhaps what is missing.

It thus appears that Microgaming is at least a compliant party and not just an onlooker. Microgaming is perfectly able to act in favor of ethical treatment of affiliates in this case.

IMO the ball is in Microgaming's court now.

Personal observation: So much for self policing of the industry. I am not so sure I want to be part of this industry anymore.

**GamTrak** · 22 February 2010, 1:28 pm

Originally Posted by Dominique

Actually, after viewing archived threads at CAP, it becomes clear that Microgaming is not just an innocent bystander.

Referspot had it's own stats system, and when Grand Prive decided to switch to a new affiliate system, it chose Microgaming as the provider.

It becomes clear from posts by the then acting aff manager for Grand Prive that Microgaming handled the integration. Hence, Microgaming is completely aware of the size of the database and will be able to tell eCOGRA exactly how much and perhaps what is missing.

It thus appears that Microgaming is at least a compliant party and not just an onlooker. Microgaming is perfectly able to act in favor of ethical treatment of affiliates in this case.

IMO the ball is in Microgaming's court now.

Personal observation: So much for self policing of the industry. I am not so sure I want to be part of this industry anymore.

I've felt this way all along and I don't see them (Microgaming) stepping up and doing the right thing or we would not have had to wait a friggen year to see that we are obviously SCREWED!

If I do quit then I will not go easily & hope Microgaming go down with me!

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