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  1. #21
    Strutt is offline Public Member
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    Here's another recent thread on Unibet Affiliates / Kindred Group Affiliates - https://www.gpwa.org/forum/careful-k...et-251293.html

  2. #22
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    @luckymedia - very helpful information you said abou these "scumbags".

    They definitely waht to shaft you, but taking them to court is the smallest steps.

    This company is cheating players and affiliate for a long time. I will give just two examples :

    - me as a player , long time ago - just closed my account, pretending it is hacked. Reason - I took them reasonble amount of monye on live games. I even had 20 seconds delay on any single or multiple bet, eventhough I caused them big troubles. We speak about UNIbet.com

    - second - I heard and seen most affiliates with untagges players. I am speaking about "big whales". And this been happening very regularly during the years.

    They think they are smart and powerful, but they underestimate our experience adn the power of this forum.

    Sooner ot later they will pay it all off.
    Seven times fall, eight times stand.

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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by luckymedia View Post
    I completed this work on the basis - that I would get paid a revenue share later down the line, when certain performance KPIs kicked in.

    Those KPIs took affect, and then I started to earn some pay for my 1-2 years hard, full-time work.
    For the record, I'm not doubting what your saying. Kindred have been proven to play 'dirty pool'.

    However, playing the Devil's Advocate...

    Whether you worked 40 hours a week (or 100 hours a week) with no holiday or sick pay, is a moot point.

    The fact is, you agreed to undertake this "work" on a Revshare (sub contractor) basis. Where, you would receive ongoing-compensation for this work, when, the agreed KPI's were reached.

    Someone may offer to prove their worth (or a company may ask). Either way, this task is done within a small trial-period. EG - this is not unusual for a CPA deal. An affiliate agrees to take a reduced payment per FTD, for a month's period.

    My question:
    Why would anyone agree to such an unfair, one-sided agreement, spanning over 1-2 years @ 40 hours per week (working each week for nothing)?

    Edit:
    Depending on your "proof", you may have a legal case against them for, breach of contract.

    However, a single person, taking a legal action against Kindred, would be akin to an ant, taking on Godzilla. Even if it made it to court, they'd certainly use stall-tactics to escalate the costs, to such an extent, they'd likely send you bankrupt, before a ruling was reached.

    A class action against Kindred may work, but (in 20 years in this industry) I'm yet to see, any affiliates, signup for that.

    Point in question... circa 2018, an affiliate (webzcas) took legal action against Affiliate Edge (breach of contract). From the outset, it certainly seemed like he had a iron-clad case against AE.

    How did that turn out?

    He lost, and was ordered to pay compensation to the owners of AE. He got shafted twice

    @luckymedia - I certainly feel for you, and it sickens me, people are treated like this. But this sheer disregard of ethics, is, more often than not, the status quo of the igaming industry, on a whole. Where money is involved, trust no one!

    There are other ways to skin a fish (CEO at Kindred Group plc):
    https://uk.linkedin.com/in/henrik-tj...3%B6m-92802b11
    Last edited by AussieDave; 14 March 2020 at 2:28 pm. Reason: Edit:
    ---
    Compliance: a code word for control

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    Do the right thing, even when no one is looking. It's called integrity.
    ---

    It's your right to be treated honestly: fairness for all igaming affiliates - doch.news

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  6. #24
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    Never been much of an earner for us

  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strutt View Post
    I worked for Unibet full time, for 1-2 years, as their exclusive UK Affiliate Media Buying Partner.

    I did not get paid anything for those 40 hours a week, in those 1-2 years.

    I got no holiday pay, or no sick pay either - which I believe was my legal entitlement, as per UK employment law.

    I completed this work on the basis - that I would get paid a revenue share later down the line, when certain performance KPIs kicked in.

    Those KPIs took affect, and then I started to earn some pay for my 1-2 years hard, full-time work.

    Having delivered 1,000s of FTDs and 10,000's in profit for my work - their affiliate team now wants to remove my commission completely apparently.

    This is despite the fact that I have a separate signed contract from Unibet for this deal, signed at a level way above the affiliate team.
    I also have over 100 email and Skype conversations relating to this deal with comments such as "this deal will be your pension fund" and "don't worry about not getting paid yet mate, you are going to earn so much money from this deal its unreal" and 10s of emails with firm promises of "lifetime revenue share".

    In my opinion they have become greedy, and they seem to have become completely happy to essentially shaft their partners.
    This is a shame, as they used to have one of the most honest teams of staff in the business, from my experience.

    Perhaps its the board trying to make their shareholders more money at our expense.
    Or perhaps their head of affiliates just needs to be sacked as suggested because they are driving this.

    I aim to take these guys to court over this if they do decide to pull the trigger on shafting me, and I will also aim to speak to some more senior individuals to establish whether this is a board decision, or a decision by the affiliate team.

    I will of course keep you guys updated on the situation.

    Justbookies - I will do my best to ensure their head of affiliates is summoned to court and properly cross-examined if it comes to it
    Hi,

    how did this end?

    I see Unibet/Kindred getting a lot of negative comments as their business ethics are extremely questionable to say the least. Might be worth for affected affiliates to join forces, contract professional legal assistance and get this sorted.

    Cheers

  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by affy View Post
    Might be worth for affected affiliates to join forces, contract professional legal assistance and get this sorted.
    A class action should have taken place, when, Grand Prive (circa 2008) f#cked everyone over. Did it happen? No... Just lots of bitching on forums, for literally 2 years or so. Until affiliates actually stand shoulder to shoulder and take scum to court, everyone (affiliates) will continue to get shafted, to a point where, no one has any money/income to do jack!
    ---
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    Do the right thing, even when no one is looking. It's called integrity.
    ---

    It's your right to be treated honestly: fairness for all igaming affiliates - doch.news

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  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by AussieDave View Post
    A class action should have taken place, when, Grand Prive (circa 200 f#cked everyone over. Did it happen? No... Just lots of bitching on forums, for literally 2 years or so. Until affiliates actually stand shoulder to shoulder and take scum to court, everyone (affiliates) will continue to get shafted, to a point where, no one has any money/income to do jack!
    Of course you are right. All these firms should be taken to court by a properly-finance bunch of affiliates. Of course the likes of Unibet should be exposed publicly for their theft of referred players. I see them as some of the worst type of scum in this business - though there are now plenty of thieving firms who are just as bad. Looking at the brands I have promoted in the past, the vast majority are now rogue. Yes it is sad that, to date, a class action lawsuit is all talk and no action. If it didn't happen with skybet's unbelievable thieving, surely it never will? It is still better to have that talk and make those idle threats. Maybe one day it will happen. Until then we are all guilty of encouraging dishonest affiliate programs like Kindred / Unibet to behave in this corrupt manner.

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  12. #28
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    Or we start to stop it...

    Affiliates simply are to greedy to cough up 10k for "united legal assistance" to save their future not realising that this 10k might turn out to be a bargain over the years...

    How many are shafted with:

    Unilateral changes in T&C's
    Retroactive quotas, lower rev.share, period fixed rev. share, high roller policies out of nothing, "closed" casinos, closed aff accounts....


    Etc. etc.

    We should start with one aff. programm to "pay them back" and set the future standards!

  13. #29
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    We should...

    This "we should" is like any other "we should" in human history. Once people start saying "we should" the case is lost. Either we do it or we do not do it. We did not do it. Affiliate world moved and that is it. Maybe I shouldn't have jumped out of window, so I would have a bit more organs and I would not be limping. But I did that and that is it.

    We are here for the profit, as the affiliate programs are here for the profit and they rob us for the profit.

    As tufty said, if Skybet (UK company ripping off UK people) went on with what they did, all thieves will be fine. Skybet even did not bother to deny us access, they just put everything to zeroes.

    I tried it with Tipico, I spent more than 10K, just to realise I absolutely do not want to organise some law teams in Malta.

    It is easy: I spend 100K for lawyers and 5M on opportunity costs (maybe much more depends what I will miss in crypto) during the next months and years with some nonsense like justice. To get what? 3M from future income surely not, because they will anyways shave everything. Maybe 1M from settlement if I am lucky. All that for all the nerves? All that to make get 7 GPWA likes from my competition? Meanwhile I am 50 and I will still have no kids and I will not learn how to ride a horse properly.

    With "tragedy of the commons" everyone is doomed. Thank god for GPWA so we can talk every few weeks what "we should do" and what nobody does. And when someone (not poor, so he can afford lawyers and not rich, so he still cares) will do it in the end, he will go with higher settlement and NDA. Because we are here for the profit. Sorry, I forgot, we are here to talk what we should do indeed.

    Btw. My affiliate manager at Kindred again changed.

    PS. I love how we can not mention "corona" anywhere and how affiliate programs like Kindred promote themselves in hospitals delivering boxes of god knows what (maybe dildos).
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

  14. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
    As tufty said, if Skybet (UK company ripping off UK people) went on with what they did, all thieves will be fine. Skybet even did not bother to deny us access, they just put everything to zeroes.

    and Bwin, WillHill, Wagershare, GVC, Mybet, Cpays, CAP etc. etc. the list is endless and keeps growing because we, the affiliates, allow them....

  15. #31
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    Do not forget Betfair, Paddy & whole Flutter; Betfred; 888; Boyle; Victor; 10bet - when it is about UK.

    But the thing I agree Skybet was the best case for court. They did not steal bit by bit. They did not use salami slice strategy by closing accounts. They just closed for all at full speed. I kind of appreciate honest thieves, but it was reckless from them. But since we affiliates are castrated eunuchs they could easily come to our house to have an intercourse with our wives and we would leave them keys under doormat.

    Some mentally challenged cuckold affiliates, who now hoard around US market, would even personally prepare and finance for them a parade of heroes.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

  16. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
    Do not forget Betfair, Paddy & whole Flutter; Betfred; 888; Boyle; Victor; 10bet - when it is about UK.

    But the thing I agree Skybet was the best case for court. They did not steal bit by bit. They did not use salami slice strategy by closing accounts. They just closed for all at full speed. I kind of appreciate honest thieves, but it was reckless from them. But since we affiliates are castrated eunuchs they could easily come to our house to have an intercourse with our wives and we would leave them keys under doormat.

    Some mentally challenged cuckold affiliates, who now hoard around US market, would even personally prepare and finance for them a parade of heroes.
    True...

  17. #33
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    So to see what points we have please ad yours to the below:

    - unilateral changes T&C's
    - lock aff. account so they force you to accept new terms
    - no respecting life-time deal (i.o.w. lowering the rev.share for existing players)
    - adding quota
    - de-tagging players
    - cross marketing within their own products without tagging
    - adding fixed rev. share period
    - increasing admin fees to ridiculous %
    - adding High Roller policy (to players that are depositing/playing for years and never withdraw)
    - bundling earnings
    - not respecting any contract in general

    => Would you as an affiliate contribute to a class action/collective proceedings yes or no?

    => Would you donate to a kind of Gofund page (or similair) for legal costs when donations and spending is monitored by a notary?

    => Would you agree that starting a case against one of the bigger operators could lead to success and consequently in less unilateral changes and shafting over affiliates?

    => Oh F*ck *ff Affy, I got enough on my head and when I'm shafted I just take my losses and move on...

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