Hold Bitcoin or Bitcoin Cash ?

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23 August 2017, 7:59 pm
PROFRBcom

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGooner

And that's before we factor in another "bitcoin" appearing with a split in November ... will it be BSG (Bitcoin Segwit?).

I don't know it's history, but I saw on coinmarketcap that there is, and has already been, a coin called "bitcoin dark" for a while. I suspect anyone can use the name bitcoin, it doesn't mean it will be adopted. In this brave new world, there are no name patents and copyright protection.
24 August 2017, 10:32 pm
WagerX

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGooner

I understand your viewpoints - and I am a foot in both camps.

However, the issue that I dislike is that after all the smug pontificating about BTC having a limited supply and not being inflationary with a fixed 21m supply (etc, etc, etc), the reality is that we've just seen the "Bitcoin" brand split and double the number of tokens around.

I understand that BCH is not BTC. But you can be sure that BCH has sucked away investor capital and miner hardware from BTC. All of this lessens the pool of demand for BTC by supplying a "cheaper bitcoin tagged token" .. and in my opinion it dilutes and devalues the bitcoin brand and possible end-game valuation.

And that's before we factor in another "bitcoin" appearing with a split in November ... will it be BSG (Bitcoin Segwit?).

So we could have 63 million possible Bitcoin tokens out there - not 21m - that's rampant inflation - and given the easy profits that miners are making with modified difficulty algos and mining blocks too frequently ... do you REALLY think it will stop there?

In a worst case scenario - miners will split / fracture the coin simply to make a buck in future. There will be 100's of bitcoin tokens - and no unified currency - and the overwhelming supply of some sort of "bitcoin" token and a myriad of prices will overwhelm demand. Prices will plummet. Tulips will become tulips again.

Keep your eyes on the markets gents - don't HODL forever.

Well said. That pretty much sums up my frustrations these last few weeks. As an advid advocate of the potential of crypo I was a little demoralized when BCH started trading at such high prices. Who in their right mind is going to pay for BCH at 800 + dollars when the first block took 24 hours to confirm? No dev team that we know of. It was a play for miners to hold on to Proof of Work a little longer.

Well, thought out post Gooner.
5 September 2017, 6:33 am
Voids

Thoughts on Verge? Had a look at the roadmap, Dev Team and principles behind the coin. If it's as truly anonymous as they predict, then could be set for a boom with chinese looking to ban ICO's and restricting purchases of alt coin.
22 September 2017, 9:13 am
Sherlock

https://calvinayre.com/2017/09/20/bi...-bloomberg-tv/

maybe i was wrong about ayre and ver after all, it will be interesting to watch
i did not sell any bch yet
27 September 2017, 5:34 am
TheGooner

Another hard fork being touted in October - this one clearly for the potential "money" - Bitcoin Gold
Source : https://www.coindesk.com/first-cash-...hard-fork-way/

The problem with bitcoin forks is that instead of bitcoin having mathematically controlled and reducing inflation, we have multiple "bitcoin" chains on the market that effectively mean rampant inflation.

The idea of forking for "money" seems to be the beginning of the end for any possible high value for bitcoin. The end game for BTC in a few years time will probably be 100 forks with all coin values rapidly approaching zero.
27 September 2017, 5:56 am
justbookies

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGooner

Another hard fork being touted in October - this one clearly for the potential "money" - Bitcoin Gold
Source : https://www.coindesk.com/first-cash-...hard-fork-way/

The problem with bitcoin forks is that instead of bitcoin having mathematically controlled and reducing inflation, we have multiple "bitcoin" chains on the market that effectively mean rampant inflation.

The idea of forking for "money" seems to be the beginning of the end for any possible high value for bitcoin. The end game for BTC in a few years time will probably be 100 forks with all coin values rapidly approaching zero.

My counter-argument would be just because they will all use the name 'bitcoin' does not mean they are related to bitcoin once they fork. They are just another crypto currency, along with the numerous that already exist. So in that case, this is not inflation but the birth of a new coin. Where I partly agree with what you are saying is that each fork does give this new crypto to those already holding BTC (not something other crypto currencies can do on launch). I think this just gives them a good head start, with so many interested stakeholders, before they decline in value.

So I would 'fork' your conclusion: " . . . in a few years time will probably be 100 forks with all coin values rapidly approaching zero" . . . except for one. Perhaps that one will be BTC, but that can't be guaranteed.
27 September 2017, 6:01 am
TheGooner

That sounds more hope than reality.

You are ignoring the often touted mathematics that there is only 21 million bitcoin possible.
That's what drives all the calculations for a high future price.

"look at all the people yet to invest" - "look at the potential market and ONLY limited bitcoin supply" ... etc.
We are seeing that just is NOT true. The supply of coins is unlimited - as greed kicks in.

You are going to lose the mindset of potential crypto investors that are just not that "into" the bitcoin evangelical spiel.
27 September 2017, 6:06 am
justbookies

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGooner

You are ignoring the often touted mathematics that there is only 21 million bitcoin possible.
That's what drives all the calculations for a high future price.

Where we differ is that you see these forks as part of the original bitcoin. I see them as new cryptos. There can only be 21 million BTC.
27 September 2017, 6:08 am
TheGooner

Quote:

Originally Posted by justbookies

Where we differ is that you see these forks as part of the original bitcoin. I see them as new cryptos. There can only be 21 million BTC.

And what do you think people currently outside the space will see them as?
Where do you think the future price drive will come from?
27 September 2017, 6:15 am
justbookies

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGooner

And what do you think people currently outside the space will see them as?
Where do you think the future price drive will come from?

I agree that it is unfortunate they have the word 'bitcoin' attached to them. As you say, not good for marketing. Then a lot of fiat currencies have the word 'dollar' attached to them and people know the difference.

The price drive will come from the need for a global currency that is a crypto. I don't know which crypto will prevail, but I believe one will. The need and demand is there and right now BTC is in pole position for take up and momentum. The role is Bitcoin's to lose.
27 September 2017, 6:25 am
Voids

There needs to be a huge uptake in people using bitcoin as currency rather than just for speculation. If there is ever a point when people have the option or are paid in crypto then it will have been a success. Until that point, there is still time for it to mature.

The more people who accept and receive payments in a crypto the better, but for that to happen the currency needs to stabilise, people are unlikely to buy a Pizza for 10000 satoshis, if that could be worth 2 Pizza's next week.

1 Crypto currency will make it to the fore and I'm making my main project in the bitcoin betting arena. Hopefully it's worth the gamble.
27 September 2017, 6:34 am
justbookies

Quote:

Originally Posted by Voids

The more people who accept and receive payments in a crypto the better, but for that to happen the currency needs to stabilise, people are unlikely to buy a Pizza for 10000 satoshis, if that could be worth 2 Pizza's next week.

But the greater the demand, the more BTC will rise against other currencies. You cant have increased demand and a static exchange rate.
27 September 2017, 7:36 am
xecutable

I swear I would have invested in it a long long time ago, but I never understood any of it. I gave it a go multiple times, read about cold storage wallets, etc but the whole thing was a fog. Apparently you also cannot buy much, without uploading your ID and stuff. Same goes for that other one, Etherium or something.

I just dont understand how something that's so complicated can become main stream for the common user.
27 September 2017, 8:05 am
Voids

Quote:

Originally Posted by justbookies

But the greater the demand, the more BTC will rise against other currencies. You cant have increased demand and a static exchange rate.

No, you can't but currently, it's less of a currency more of a commodity. The Gooner has already discussed the annoyance and differing fiat values between transactions and that wide fluctuation would have to be born by businesses (unless the entire operation is run in bitcoin). Many don't want to take this risk and others have seen like of adoption by customers.

For bitcoin to have a future as a currency its value must settle removing the risk of huge FIAT swings.
27 September 2017, 4:57 pm
Pokerface

I totally agree with you. Crytocurrencies are extremely complicated and as much as I have read or tried to watch videos I am still stumped. I was just getting to understand them better when Bitcoin forked and then more confusion. I have Bitcoin and Ethereum and will sit and ride on them for now and see what happens.

I will continue to try to understand these currencies in the meantime.
27 September 2017, 7:32 pm
TheGooner

Quote:

Originally Posted by justbookies

But the greater the demand, the more BTC will rise against other currencies. You cant have increased demand and a static exchange rate.

You can if you also have rapidly increasing supply due to mutliple forks.
I noted another post on the GPWA about a poker room now accepting 60 different crypto-tokens.

I note that https://coinmarketcap.com/ has the BTC dominance at 47.8% of total market crypto market cap.
Let's revisit this thread at Christmas and see what it is.
28 September 2017, 7:17 am
justbookies

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGooner

You can if you also have rapidly increasing supply due to mutliple forks.

When a fork happens, the new crypto created is not bitcoin.
28 September 2017, 7:40 am
Sherlock

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGooner

I noted another post on the GPWA about a poker room now accepting 60 different crypto-tokens.

It is easy to put on website gadget accepting many cryptos, like 1xbet has it (with hefty fees). The other thing is that nobody is using anything else than bitcoin for transactions. It is as relevant as listing Dobra (STD) - currency of St. Tome and Principe.

Before Alphabay closed doors, they put there Monero and later ETH as deposit method. Monero definitely makes sense there, because of anonymity. I was following the darkmarket threads and vendors and they said that XMR transactions are negligible.
28 September 2017, 8:25 am
Sherlock

Quote:

Originally Posted by justbookies

When a fork happens, the new crypto created is not bitcoin.

Bitcoin forked many times and the new crypto can be (and many times in history was) bitcoin.

The fork that is coming in November will be a battle for the brand that is not trademarked. Any changes that happen to bitcoin code are forks. Either softforks (backwards compatible) or hardforks (noncompatible). More source of information or confusion on this is for example here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=702755.0

Also please note that before the November hardfork there is now news that another hardfork will occur https://www.coindesk.com/first-cash-...hard-fork-way/ and it would be 4th "bitcoin" created. The newly created "bitcoin gold" is however irrelevant for users and it is just a bonus as there was a bitcoin cash.

The real and only recent battle will be in November... but it is possible that the consensus will be found and either there will be no hardfork or there will be a hardfork, but the legacy chain (Bitcoin Core) will somehow merge with the new chain.

But it is definitely possible that the new crypto created in November will be bitcoin. The dynamically changing page worth of looking at is here: https://coin.dance/poli
28 September 2017, 9:48 am
slotplayer

Is it possible you'll see BTC used for very large financial transactions like bank to bank, Goverment payments/xfers etc.. Etherum for B2B contracts and Litecoin for consumer day to day use?

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