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  1. #21
    CityGuard's Avatar
    CityGuard is offline Former GPWA Program Manager
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    James, you raise a number of important concerns regarding when reprinting is acceptable and when it is not. Let me try addressing some of the issues:

    Quote Originally Posted by james69
    How can you create original content if you take articles from press releases?

    Copyright standards apply a concept of "derivate work," where an intellectual creation must adhere to the licensing of a work on which it is based. However, with one exception, the new work may have a different set of permissions and restrictions than the first.

    The one exception that comes to mind would be if the copyright agreement for the original work stated that derivates works must use the same standards -- this is the case with some open source software work, where an agreement will say you can't sell the original work and you are allowed to modify and improve it as long as the modifications also permit free distribution and modification.

    However, in the absence of that type of restriction on the original work, the creator of a derivative work is free to set additional restrictions on its use.

    The other relevant aspect for Paolino's translations is that press releases have licensing agreements that allow for their free redistribution. If the release is sent directly to a media outlet, it is for distribution. If it is taken from one of the newswires that prints these releases (PR Newswire, Marketwire, etc.), the wire states a policy that materials posted there are for reprinting. So, Paolino could make a derivate work based on the original press release and would be adhering to the copyright restrictions for the original. Although it derives from the original, Paolino's translation would be a work in itself and Paolino would be the copyright holder of that work (or the company Paolino works for would hold it). Because press releases do not establish a restriction against their use in derivate work, Paolino or his company could then establish restrictions for reprinting the translation. If no restrictions are stated, work is assumed to have a copyright that does not permit reprinting.

    The same applies to close paraphrasing. While it creates a new work, the derivate does not mean you don't have to abide by the original copyright. So, if the work being translated required individual written permission to reprint, someone would have to make a special arrangement to print a translated or paraphrased version as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by james69
    So you mean there is a difference between copying word by word and copying every two words?

    I understand this is a bit of a joke, but wanted to highlight an issue this question raises.

    I've seen abuses where a webmaster ran text through some program to replace certain words with their synonyms. While different than the original work, the newly worded article is a derivate work that must still abide by the restrictions of the original. ("Imagine this: You visit a web site only to find that..." turned into something like "Visualize this: You meet a web spot only to locate that...")


    Quote Originally Posted by james69
    I noticed that this is not the first time you write about copycats - if you get news somewhere on the internet those are copied anyway so I wouldn't complain if others do the same.


    I hope with the above explanation about reprinting authorization for press releases and the reprinting restrictions on the translations, you can see why what Paolino and others are doing is different than what is being complained about.
    Last edited by CityGuard; 13 November 2006 at 12:44 pm.
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  2. #22
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    Like most, this sh#t is really starting to annoy me.

    I've often contemplated theories on how to prevent rogue webmasters stealing content. However all the solutions I've come up with would be very time consuming for one person to get going.

    As a suggestion I'm sure there are a number of skilled webmasters here who wouldn't mind investing some of their time into a collaborative effort to try and nut out an effective solution in dealing with this issue.

    I'd be more than happy to offer some time on this project. Who knows we maybe able to actually market the solution down the track and make some bucks too.

    Anyone interested in pursuing this?



    Cheers

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  3. #23
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    Default AussieDave

    Sounds like a great theory AussieDave, practical? Not from what I have witnessed over the last two years. After all this would require some moral conscience in turn, wallet sizes may not be as big.

    But seriously we all know by now how I personally feel about these parasitic webmasters. Feeding off other people’s hard work is my sore spot. But the reality is we are not all technically inclined as others may be. Being a Webmaster is one thing, protecting your property requires a totally different set of skills. Knowing how track these parasitic greed heads takes some skill few have. It also requires lots of time and patience something very few would commit to.

    Most seem too preoccupied with watering their own backyard, never mind helping out a fellow Webmaster. This is the lesson I have learnt over the years.

    So the question remains “Anyone interested in pursuing this”? I certainly would be no question. I believe above all we come first I come second. If we fail then I will lose as well. The means always justifies the end, if we could make a 1% difference it is worth it.

    Now I wonder how the GPWA would feel about their forum being used as a battle ground to expose dirty webmasters? Would this not create a hostile atmosphere? What if a dirty affiliate is aligned with a credited GPWA program? With no willingness to oust the affiliate what would the GPWA do?

    Right now I have a long list of the most dirt ridden online gambling webmasters in the industry. Would it be useful for me to post them? I don’t think so. People would take a glance and say “yeah so what”. I would say for every dollar you earn these dirt bags take two. Besides in my own opinion nobody really cares unless it affects them directly.

    Practical in theory, in practice not so. Perhaps this will change one day soon for those snakes are beginning to get rather large. Turn a blind eye and soon there will be no grass to water.

    greek39
    Last edited by pgaming; 15 November 2006 at 10:17 pm.
    Greek39

  4. #24
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    Thanks greek

    I'm not proposing a blow the whistle scheme, but a combined effort to between willing webmaster who have php & mySQL programing experience.

    I've got a few ideas up my sleeve but not the time. Sharing this between a group of webbies would allow it to be developed quicker and would at least offer some protection as apposed to nothing that we have now.


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  5. #25
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    Default misleading

    I agree with coming up with a scheme and most of the ideas in this thread are worth pursuing.

    At the same time we have to make sure that webmasters look at themselves before they judge others.

    I have done some research with the help of some friends as I hate copycats as well and guess what, I found this article:

    ladbrokes obiettivo spagna e italia which is from an italian source in google news - lautomatico.net

    If you read now this article from paolino's website you realize that he has changed only the first word, separated the paragraphs and added a single line at the bottom - how can you then claim that this article is written by you when it was taken from an Italian news source? I do not see the source added at the end of the article.

    I do not know whether Paolino is Italian or not but he is not doing a great deal of writing there. It is unacceptable that respected webmasters open threads and waste people's time this way.
    Last edited by james69; 17 November 2006 at 6:32 am.

  6. #26
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    Yes of course i get news from press releases, but from press-releases i create original content.
    This is an original quote from Paolino.
    Last edited by james69; 17 November 2006 at 6:33 am.

  7. #27
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    ladbrokes obiettivo spagna e italia which is from an italian source in google news - lautomatico.net

    If you read now this article from paolino's website you realize that he has changed only the first word, separated the paragraphs and added a single line at the bottom - how can you then claim that this article is written by you when it was taken from an Italian news source? I do not see the source added at the end of the articl
    James i don't know who you are and why you are doing a battle against me. I just answer and then i stop here, i won't post anymore about this subject. I only write original content and i would never copy a line form other websites.

    The news from LAUTOMATICO, was written on Nov 16 at 5,14 pm, while my news was written on Nov 16 at 10,25 am. Probably we got the source from the same press release and we translated using similar words (by the way now i see that the lautomatico's author wrote the source of that news - casinò impact).

    Have a nice day.
    Last edited by Paolino; 17 November 2006 at 12:08 pm.
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  8. #28
    james69 is offline Public Member
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    Paolino this is not a battle against you, I am just disappointed that people like yourself copy and blame others at the same time. Why do you want to stop here? (are you afraid that people will find out the truth?)

    So where is the link to the press release which you both copied? Eager to know.

  9. #29
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    James, the concerns you raise about copying are very serious. However, one thing to be watchful for when finding duplicate content is determining which source was the original and which one the copier (or whether both are based in material that may be reprinted). In this case, its quite clear that Paolino was the victim of copying (again!) rather than the copier. In addition to the timeframe given by Paolino (found a time on the Lautomatico article but didn't find a time released on Casino Impact's version?)...anyway, in addition to the timeframe the Lautomatico story cites Casino Impact (which is Paolino's website):

    The first sentence of Lautomatico's version translates to English as roughly "The manager of Ladbrokes, Christopher Bell, informed Casino Impact..."

    Here are the links to both article -

    Lautomatio's Copy of Paolino's Story:
    http://www.lautomatico.net/index.php...aChiave=impact

    Paolino's Italian Ladbrokes Story:
    http://www.casinoimpact.com/it/notiz...-italiano.html


    It is important that duplicate content not be seen as indicating which source was the origin of the content. Tools like copyscape and don't show those origins, and they also won't tell you if the material reprinted in multilpe places are owned by the same webmaster or not. Unless you know how a work was created, keep this sometimes limited availability of information in mind and always frame initial concerns of copying as requesting clarification rather than as raising allegations. In this case, the allegation approach was even less appropriate because the answer concerning the article's origin was right in the text of the copied version.
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by greek39
    Now I wonder how the GPWA would feel about their forum being used as a battle ground to expose dirty webmasters? Would this not create a hostile atmosphere? What if a dirty affiliate is aligned with a credited GPWA program? With no willingness to oust the affiliate what would the GPWA do?
    Greek:

    As executive director of the GPWA I would be happy to have the forum used for that purpose, and yes, I view it as a requirement that GPWA affiliate programs not work with rogue portal webmasters, although I'm smart enough to know we cannot be as demanding on that front today as we will be able to be tomorrow with the right infrastructure in place. That is the heart and soul of one of the main reasons I decided to have Casino City acquire the GPWA in the first place. I recommend very carefully reading the last paragraph of the initial press release we made announcing our acquisition of the GPWA in the following thread www.gpwa.org/forum/showthread.php?t=167504.

    I presume everyone is aware of the GPWA Approved site program we announced recently www.gpwa.org/forum/showthread.php?t=168521. Building the list of GPWA approved member sites is step 1 in the process - which is to create visibility and a voice for webmasters who are committed to ethical practices.

    Step 2 is to identify the sites of a few rogue webmasters, and to award their sites a skull and crossbones (although I realize we will not be able to get them to post that on their sites, we can maintain a list of rogue portal sites).

    Step 3 is to work together to devise strategies to reward affiliate programs that refuse to work with our list of rogue portal sites, and to punish affiliate programs that do not refuse to work with rogue portal sites. And also ways to punish rogue portal sites such as by working to have their material quickly removed from google for copyright violation.

    Step 4 is to develop a well-oiled infrastructure that allows us to rapidly respond to good and bad behavior with carrots and sticks. Some examples of what this might mean include: a) infrastructure for rapidly identifying copyright violations within portal sites so we can interact with webmasters to see if they will fix the problems, b) being able to identify affiliate programs working with those sites, so we can request they drop those sites when appropriate, c) having a way to identify and contact portal webmasters using affiliate programs that refuse to deal with bad behavior appropriately so those portal webmasters can make their displeasure known, and d) marking affiliate programs that abide by our standards as good programs worthy of our support and those that do not meet standards we agree as rogue programs and standing united in refusing to participate in such programs.

    In my view, our ability to make a difference here is all based on having a position we can all be proud of and associated clout developed through massive numbers of GPWA approved sites. My plan is for there to be thousands, and for us to be able to do amazing things as a result.

    Michael
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  11. #31
    pgaming's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Michael I know few who feel as passionate about exposing dirty Webmaster as I do. The principled ideological view the GPWA purposes adds a tremendous amount confidence. I personally am very impressed.

    Webmasters spanning the globe share in one common value. They all hate the dispectable and shameful act of content theft. Whether the person is providing information about cars, planes, porn, or gambling…. This is the common value every Webmaster shares.

    All too often we turn a blind eye to the sad truth. For those capable of helping I feel moral obligation/imperative to do so. Turn a blind eye you may become blind.

    On this thread I find one content thieve. I am sure you know who you are, I certainly do. Stop the non-sense and give back what you didn’t create. If I find you harassing this person anymore I will post your biography right here.

    GPWA a very good step in the right direction. I will be busy for the next month setting up camp some-where else. Thank You GPWA for taking this proactive approach we all can use some help.

    Greek39
    Greek39

  12. #32
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    Default who are you talking about

    greek who do you mean?

  13. #33
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    Thumbs up James36

    James69 may I be so blunt as your question? Personally I feel you have compromised Paolino’s creative work in more ways than one. The question for me is can the situation be fixed? Can Paolino and yourself a least try and get this situation resolved? Instead of arguing back and forth find a compromise.

    I am sure everyone would like to this happen. The alternative is less favourable, and would expose many aspects of the truth.

    Greek39
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    Default please do

    Hi Greek,

    I don’t know Paolino, I don’t have anything against him and I certainly don’t appreciate being threatened by some Uzo drinking geek. I personally don’t like the fact that there are webmasters out there who complain but then do the same. Even the almightily greek does not know everything, believe you me; why don’t you Expose the truth, please do. Please, please do post my biography on here, am very eager to see it.
    Thank you very much.

  15. #35
    pgaming's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Okay I am “Uzo drinking geek” and an “almightily greek”. Wow I didn’t even realize that. Quite a blind statement just as blind as stealing others peoples’ content. There is a new Breakfast Cereal out called “moral fibre”. Pick some up apparently it does wonders for people lacking in some common human decenty.

    A biography you want? It will be posted here on January 10, 2006. This will give you enough time to pull the stolen content.
    Greek39

  16. #36
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    Default Jan 10th?

    I am afraid to say that Jan 10th 2006 is 10 month ago dont know how you will do that... however i presume you mean 2007, why then? i would much prefer to see it now and I guess you have nooooooooooo idea what you are talking about... had those cerials... they were really nice, thanks.

  17. #37
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    Thumbs up

    I think that was my point 10 months ago.

    greek39
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  18. #38
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    Default hahahahah

    okeyyyy....??? less Uzo buddy, its not good for you

  19. #39
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    James69

    You are inflaming things here. It is apparent to all (bar you) that Paolino is in the right about his post and claim of copied content.

    I would like to ask a blunt and direct question:

    James69, are you the owner of, or associated with the owner of, Hotlens.com?

    This can be the only reason I can see for the obstructive nature of your posts.

    Please feel free to correct my supposition.

    NOTE - Any attacks of a personal nature should actually lead to the banning of the poster. Now, I have asked you a straight question, deal with it accordingly and let's move on. If you still choose to propose that Paolino is in fact a copycat, then I suggest you find better evidence than quoting an article where that author in fact gives a website that Paolino owns credit for the article. That is some serious proof of Paolino's innocense. You go on then and find evidence to the contrary. Anything slanderous in nature that is posted (accusations with no supporting evidence) will lead to the immediate suspension of the posters board rights.

    Greek, thank you for not responding in kind to the personal remarks made.
    Have a wonderful day

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  20. #40
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    Default Bye Bye

    I am interested in the matter exposed by Paolino as Greek is - who, by the way, was the first to brand someone as content thief without even speaking the language or having any proof or as you would put it - accusations with no supporting evidence.

    Greek is interested in finding content thieves I am interested in finding out the truth.

    It is obvious that none of you have spotted the fact that the reference to Paolino's site was added afterwards and that Paolino edited his old post at a latter stage without adding a proper reply...very sneaky.

    All of you have been quick to point the finger without following the posts properly and noticing what is has been going on. I can safely say that this forum is just a lobby of some webmasters and I am happy not to be part of it - no need to ban me. Bye Bye

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