How do you convert your crypto/USDT payments to USD/fiat?

[MichaelBluejay]

I had accounts at the big exchanges that I used for receiving affiliate payments, selling them for USD, and then sending to my bank.

Most of them inquired about the source of my funds, and I answered honestly, and based on my answer, they closed my accounts. (My initial answer was just "advertising on my website", but then they asked specifically if I was an online gambling affiliate.)

I'm down to one exchange account, and if I lose that, I'm not sure how I'll turn my affiliate payments into USD and get into my bank.

How do you convert your crypto affiliate payments to your local currency?

[tufty]

You may be doing some of this but in my answer I'll assume you are an idiot: 1) Don't send payments direct from betting operator to the exchange. Send it to your own wallet. This is vital - if you are sending direct to exchange then it is totally nuts. You could use your own electrum wallet (for btc) or metamask (usdt) wallet to receive funds. 2) Never mention being an affiliate of any sort or anything to do with betting 3) Come up with a valid / square reason that does not involve the truth or anything business related. Make it personal funds not work.

I can't help you with the lie in 3) because despite sending seven figures + to exchanges in the last 7 years (or since they started paying in crypto & then stablecoin), I have never once been asked where the funds came from. So what I do has never got me into problems. With USDT payments, personally I immediately swap it to eth (can be done in mm) and then send that to the exchange to swap to fiat. Maybe swapping usdt to eth is unnecessary (and it has a cost) but it's what I do to add one more link of obfuscation and I haven't had any problems.

Sherlock will have better advice. But if you aren't at least doing the above, then that is where you are going wrong.

[MichaelBluejay]

Thank you very much, this is very helpful.

(1) I was indeed sending from the affiliate to the exchange, but I'm pretty sure the exchanges flagged me based on volume (and the fact that all the value in went right back out) because after a few months they *asked* me about the source of funds. My volume might have been similar to yours, if you meant 7 figures total over 7 years, not 7 figures a year (which I'm nowhere near). However, to be on the safe side, I'll take your advice and send to a phone-based wallet first and then to the exchange.

(2)(3) I tell the truth, that's my policy. It's probably also against the law to lie to a financial institution. I don't volunteer that I'm a gambling affiliate, but if they ask, then I'll tell them.

Converting USDT to ETH before sending to the exchange is a good idea, since probably no casino pays in ETH.

Are there reliable exchanges for U.S. customers besides Kraken, Coinbase, and Bitstamp? I couldn't find any.

[content]

You may be doing some of this but in my answer I'll assume you are an idiot: 1) Don't send payments direct from betting operator to the exchange. Send it to your own wallet. This is vital - if you are sending direct to exchange then it is totally nuts. You could use your own electrum wallet (for btc) or metamask (usdt) wallet to receive funds. 2) Never mention being an affiliate of any sort or anything to do with betting 3) Come up with a valid / square reason that does not involve the truth or anything business related. Make it personal funds not work.

I can't help you with the lie in 3) because despite sending seven figures + to exchanges in the last 7 years (or since they started paying in crypto & then stablecoin), I have never once been asked where the funds came from. So what I do has never got me into problems. With USDT payments, personally I immediately swap it to eth (can be done in mm) and then send that to the exchange to swap to fiat. Maybe swapping usdt to eth is unnecessary (and it has a cost) but it's what I do to add one more link of obfuscation and I haven't had any problems.

Sherlock will have better advice. But if you aren't at least doing the above, then that is where you are going wrong.

I've lose a few accounts over the years(before I became a casino affiliate, I won a lot of bitcoins in 2016 on an online casino, and was living off bitcoin and keeping nearly all of my money in it for over a year) including cashapp and circle. Sometimes just using your own wallet isn't enough, and it still gets flagged. Back in the day, I'd use LocalBitcoins.Com before they banned U.S. users(and in 2015, made a lot of BTC just artibitrage facilitating different payment methods, those days were great) and used to do a lot of trades for bank transfers and cash money orders(and they used to have crazy rates on giftcards and stuff, got ones at a discount, like I'd get more than the cash value of the btc, for things like airlines and hotels and even like wholefoods and panera, but I think those days of localbitcoins is gone).

Personally I don't use USDT, I like keeping it in bitcoin or SOL(I have a bad habit of trading it for memecoins to try to double up what I get paid in commissions, sometimes it works, sometimes I lose it). Often I use exodus wallet or a swapsite(like ones with no sign in needed, no KYC) to covert my btc to SOL. Like Tufty says, I think converting it once before selling it adds a degree of separation from the casino wallet which is what gets flagged. And if ever asked, I just tell them I trade crypto.

So far I haven't had issue with Crypto.com app(can also get a crypto debit card with them, and keep it in crypto and cash it as you spend) and Gemini app. I do convert it in at least one trade before cashing it(btc fees higher to send, I like BTC but not a fan of using it as much, before was using SOL i'd convert to LTC since also lower fees).

If it was a lot of crypto, like a big number, there are some companies out there that do OTC trades(as in you talk to them and they pay you directly, not like using coinbase like dealing with another person at a company that brokers large amounts of crypto).

Anyway, my main point is sometimes just using your desktop wallet to receive before selling it still gets flagged, I can attest to that with CashApp, once had an issue with holding funds, CashApp seems to be suspicious of personal wallets in general and it's really annoying.

[MichaelBluejay]

Thank you @content. I'd forgotten that I'd ruled out some of the exchanges you mentioned a while back for various reasons, but if I lose my current account, then beggars can't be choosers and I might try them anyway.

• Gemini and Bitflyer force users to hand over their bank login in order to do bank transfers. I object to that on principle, it's rude that they even ask. (Though again, I might have to do it anyway.)

• CashApp charges a pretty hefty exchange fee, I think like 3-4%. (Not hefty compared to a BTM, but hefty compared to a true exchange.)

• I was wary of Crypto.com after they made news for getting hacked, and sending $400M to the wrong recipient. But maybe they've learned their lesson?

[tufty]

(2)(3) I tell the truth, that's my policy. It's probably also against the law to lie to a financial institution. I don't volunteer that I'm a gambling affiliate, but if they ask, then I'll tell them.

You ought to rethink this as it is bananas. I went on your site for 30 seconds to see who you promote. I could only see Bovada. The US authorities would view promoting an unregulated operator that is not licensed as against the law, so it is not as if you aren't already sailing close to the wind.

If you are admitting to a "financial institution" that you are a gambling affiliate then I would argue that you are admitting to a "financial institution" that you are a law-breaker given you don't promote US-licensed operator. They might feel obligated to inform their licensing body of this. I am playing devil's advocate, but you can see where your truth can get you. Never forget promoting unregulated firms is not condoned by the US authorities.

When affiliates start having moral high grounds the ethical argument quickly starts to unravel because, and I quote another member of this form, we are all hypocrites. If you want to remain whiter than white, then get out of this business.

To say you are a trader as Content said is an interesting one. Though of course you are not trading with this exchange, though you could be with another exchange that doesn't convert to fiat, so it is a feasible reason to be holding crypto. Remember, exchanges are going through a tick box exercise so let them tick their boxes - don't volunteer a cross in a box.

On a separate issue altogether - I quickly hit a page of your site where music started playing just for visiting the page. It was quite freaky. I exited.

[gm2891]

I saw Michael's site years ago and liked it, and that music about Easy Vegas too . If you were in the UK, i could recommend one safe and eeeasy place where you can just eeeasily say that it's crypto from gambling, no questions asked.

[content]

You ought to rethink this as it is bananas. I went on your site for 30 seconds to see who you promote. I could only see Bovada. The US authorities would view promoting an unregulated operator that is not licensed as against the law, so it is not as if you aren't already sailing close to the wind.

If you are admitting to a "financial institution" that you are a gambling affiliate then I would argue that you are admitting to a "financial institution" that you are a law-breaker given you don't promote US-licensed operator. They might feel obligated to inform their licensing body of this. I am playing devil's advocate, but you can see where your truth can get you. Never forget promoting unregulated firms is not condoned by the US authorities.

When affiliates start having moral high grounds the ethical argument quickly starts to unravel because, and I quote another member of this form, we are all hypocrites. If you want to remain whiter than white, then get out of this business.

To say you are a trader as Content said is an interesting one. Though of course you are not trading with this exchange, though you could be with another exchange that doesn't convert to fiat, so it is a feasible reason to be holding crypto. Remember, exchanges are going through a tick box exercise so let them tick their boxes - don't volunteer a cross in a box.

On a separate issue altogether - I quickly hit a page of your site where music started playing just for visiting the page. It was quite freaky. I exited.

On that topic, I report to the IRS correctly(I differentiate from capital gains from crypto trading if any, and affiliate commissions, different tax code).

As far as I could find, the only case I could find against a casino affiliate site operator was in Utah, who was ordered by a judge to shut down his site(Utah is a fanatical state, not an issue elsewhere, you can see many large affiliate websites have on their site business details with U.S. addresses. You can provide disclaimers about unlicensed operators if you're paranoid about that).

The offense is taking bets from players as an operator if not licensed in a jurisdiction.

Providing online marketing services to an offshore licensed operator is a different issue, as they are bound by their own rules, you're not a casino operator and are not violating any U.S. statutes by operating an affiliate website.

Online marketing and providing information on your own website is not the same as operating a casino as an owner or processing their payments etc(and the payment processing part, is why crypto exchanges sometimes have issue with casino wallets, even though you're not using it for deposits or withdrawals to gamble, but rather are receiving affiliate payments).

I don't think you'd ever have any legal issue here in the U.S. by simply operating an information website with details about casinos that have licenses in jurisdictions outside of the united states, there's no statutes that criminalize that(nor are there statutes that criminalize the players for utilizing offshore casinos, it is the ownership and operating as in collecting and dispersing bets to players which you are not involved with).

I do know in some countries(I believe New Zealand) has laws specifically against advertising casinos as an affiliate, though it's really not a legal issue for affiliates(and for players, I won 6 figures on an unlicensed casino in 2016, had no issues reporting that income to the IRS as money won on an online casino that doesn't report to u.s.) in the united states to my knowledge(plenty of celebrities these days online, streamers and stuff, flaunt their partnerships with casinos, it's really not an issue to disclose).

[content]

Thank you @content. I'd forgotten that I'd ruled out some of the exchanges you mentioned a while back for various reasons, but if I lose my current account, then beggars can't be choosers and I might try them anyway.

• Gemini and Bitflyer force users to hand over their bank login in order to do bank transfers. I object to that on principle, it's rude that they even ask. (Though again, I might have to do it anyway.)

• CashApp charges a pretty hefty exchange fee, I think like 3-4%. (Not hefty compared to a BTM, but hefty compared to a true exchange.)

• I was wary of Crypto.com after they made news for getting hacked, and sending $400M to the wrong recipient. But maybe they've learned their lesson?

As for gemeni, I believe the bank log in process they use is Plaid, and they are partnered with all major banks, you select your bank, and log into your bank on your bank's own website, you are not providing your bank log in password to either plaid or the bank, you're just linking your bank account. If you don't like that, ok, though I see no issues(plaid processes billions of dollars in payments for many mainstream services).

As for crypto.com, idk, whatever hack didn't affect me, it's one of the biggest apps for trading crypto so they better never become insolvent lol. I wouldn't worry about it honestly, no need to keep your crypto in the app unless you're cashing out, can maintain self custody and just send to the wallet when ready to sell it.

[tufty]

Ironically, the OP has written one of the better posts you'll read on the grey area of law regards affiliates and offshore operators:
https://easy.vegas/online/legal-affiliate

[MichaelBluejay]

As for gemeni, I believe the bank log in process they use is Plaid, and they are partnered with all major banks, you select your bank, and log into your bank on your bank's own website, you are not providing your bank log in password to either plaid or the bank, you're just linking your bank account.

You absolutely hand over your bank login to Plaid for "verification". That's how it works, and that's the whole point. Plaid has to be able to get into your bank account in order to "verify" it.

I think it's nuts to share my bank login with anyone, as a matter of principle. And if your account gets hacked, well, you just violated your bank's TOS by sharing your login, so they'll take no liability. Also, Plaid got hit with a $58 million fine for harvesting customer data, and I was absolutely not surprised. I don't think it's prudent to trust a known-sleazy third party with my bank login.

As for Gemini, I just checked, and it seems they did away with Plaid. Instead, you send a wire to Gemini, and then Gemini knows that's your account. So, I appreciate the tip to have another look at Gemini, that could be a backup option for me.

[baldidiot]

If you were in the UK, i could recommend one safe and eeeasy place where you can just eeeasily say that it's crypto from gambling, no questions asked.

Do tell!

[casinobonusguy]

We have a registered Business account and some months we have sent $60,000 in bitcoin transactions to Coinsquare and to our bank account in Canada .The business claims all as income and pays taxes accordingly. Our Bank knows we are affiliates and I had audiobook franchises and other businesses but also disclosed that casinos like jackpot city and 888 are our clients and they pay us for marketing services but we do not handle anything to do with the money or processing. For 18 years we have never had an issue with our bank ,having said that we cannot send USDT to our bank as Coinsquare does not support it .

[leannamadden]

Do tell!

I am also interested

[Sherlock]

I was called by tufty, but I can not suggest anything else than him. Being a crypto investor and holder / or be a crypto investor and holder/ is for now the best way how to avoid being asked my exchanges. That said I never converted crypto to fiat; just the other way around.

It is pointless to play a Good Guy in a system that is broken and waiting for reset. Crypto exchanges will behave more and more as banks. State outsourced the fight against money laundering to banks (and exchanges).

Therefore the only way how to proceed is to go through checking processes of banks and exchanges and you have to be very creative while doing it.

The other option is to be out of that business or niche, it is as simple as that.

It does not matter that there is somewhere de iure big difference between operator and affiliate. Here the judge and policeman is the bank or exhcange. If they think it is the same, then it is the same. As one banker explained, in theory, the bank has to go through all money that were sent to casino and verify whether they money were legit and not some money laundering bs from terrorists. And for people who accept those money (read: we affiliates), the money have to be checked as well. If you want to follow the logic, then the payments for servers, electricity in offices, payments for licences, payments to employees from casino... all those payments should be checked by banks following this logic.

But for now, we are in Stage 2, where banks = exchanges, just more and more go against affiliates. Cryptoexchanges might be even more against us, because they have too much butter on their heads, and gambling is another red flag.

So do not be jealous, we might make it to next stages, where even your local electricity company will check whether your money is clean and cut your electricity once they realise where your money is coming from.

There is no solution for this. The world is fading away, because people once again fell into thinking, that we can manage and rule much more things that we can. The Rubicon was crossed, because even people who are against regulations, can not imagine world without regulations, because everyone is now making money not from free market, but by avoiding regulations that go against the free market.

I remember the end of socialism in Eastern Europe. In the end, the only people who were doing business were criminals, who broke all possible laws. We are going there.

[Sherlock]

Recently I had visit of serviceman of backhoe loader. He is from Venezuela. Good guy. One of few in region who really works. He came to other Latin American country to work for John Deere with a promise that in few months his wife and kids can follow. He was shocked and depressed after 6 years, that nothing happened and his family remained in Venezuela. It pissed me off that much that I smuggled his wife to this country that is no less stupid than Venezuela. So at least I have good service of my backhoe loader.

Why I am saying this? Venezuela does not have that much experience with socialism or broadly said with state control. And for sure emmigrants from Venezuela, who were disappointed, do not expect this elsewhere.

I see the same from people from USA or UK or western Europe. There is incredible naivety. People think that if they will follow the law, they will be fine. But the systems never functioned like this. The control was always something through something unsaid. Between lawful and unlawful. In the west this grey zone was probably more limited than in the east (maybe not). But right now - thanks digital technologies that brought endless possibilities which need endless control - we are all f...... up. Just the people from the east know it and people from west are angry/disappointed/seek the unreachable Eden where they can be the Good Guys.

[tufty]

Do tell!

Same - sounds interesting.

[Sherlock]

Do tell!

I do not care about UK, but this kind of information should not be shared in public. Very likely the non_action of the bank/financial institution is not intentional. They are just lagging behind. Sharing such info in public just speeds up the process when the bank will be unusable.

My experience with banks, across countries is, that they tend to go always from the best to the worst in one step. The most lenient ones are the ones that will be in trouble by regulators.

The compliance departments of those banks and institutions are filled by young inexperienced people, who have no mercy to slash with customers even the institution they work at. Very few people in banks understand how they have to play the game: to look like they are the hardest fighters against all the suspicious money and then let their grey zone customers live for some extra fees. This would be the only mid-term sustainable model. Sadly for some CPL officer this is not motivating enough, because he is not the shareholder and the R/R for him personally is not good enough (bonuses are nice, but not extraordinary when compared with personal implications for him, if he makes mistake in evaluation).

[Malikbhai]

I got a guy who I transfer crypto to and he credits my bank account.

Has a $50k per day transfer liquidity through online bank transfers.

For bank drafts and cheques, no limit.

[Malikbhai]

My kind of setup can only happen in places like India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Thailand, Philippines, Hong Kong, UAE, Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi....

You get the picture.

No Western Europe or North America.

Can't say about East Europe or South America; though I would believe the money laundering setups there are full proof.