View Poll Results: How many times have you been given a proof of payment but not received the payment?

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  • I've always received payment for which a proof of payment request is provided.

    6 50.00%
  • I've had one or two instances where I didn't receive a payment for which a proof of payment request was provided.

    4 33.33%
  • I've had three to five instances where I didn't receive a payment for which a proof of payment request was provided.

    1 8.33%
  • I've had six to ten instances where I didn't receive a payment for which a proof of payment request was provided.

    0 0%
  • I've had more than ten instances where I didn't receive a payment for which a proof of payment request was provided.

    1 8.33%
Results 1 to 7 of 7
  1. #1
    MichaelCorfman's Avatar
    MichaelCorfman is offline GPWA Executive Director
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    Question How many times have you been given a proof of payment but not received the payment?

    Sometimes affiliate programs can send payments and they never arrive. I've seen it happen every once in a while. There was the time a program tried to send us euros using a BACS transfer. BACS only handles Pounds Sterling, so the BACS system returned the funds to the payer. But the payer only believed we had not been paid after I requested that a trace be performed on the transaction and the results came back.

    Right now I'm in the middle of tracking down another missing payment. In case you have never had this type if issue, I provide a transcript of the exchanges that have taken place up to this point below at the end of this post. The affiliate program representative has been responsive, and hopefully after my last reply back I will get a responsive reply from the finance department as well.

    Anyway, besides voting in the poll, be sure to share your thoughts on tracking down problem payments.

    Michael

    Quote Originally Posted by Affiliate Program on 10 January
    ... we paid for this. Confirmation of the transfer in the attachment. Please call your bank, maybe they can help you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Me on 13 January
    Thank you for your email. It was handed off to me to investigate since I manage our banking relationship with xxx Bank. I contacted them this morning, and they confirmed that there is no record of their receiving the payment. I was told by their international banking team that the next step was to contact the sender and request that they ask their bank to place a trace on the send request. The expected result is that it will be determined that the funds have not been sent successfully, and that they will have been deposited back into the senders bank account.
    Quote Originally Posted by Affiliate Program on 13 January
    Thank you for the information. I will transfer information to the accounting department. They will check whether the money has returned and I will write to you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Affiliate Program on 15 January
    At the moment, money hasn't returned to our account. In the attachment is a fresh document from our bank. Therefore, we can't make a new payment now. Could you explain why you couldn't receive the money which was sent to details from your invoice? Sorry, but I didn't understand why it happened.
    Quote Originally Posted by Me on 15 January
    That is too bad that the payment was not returned to your account. If it was, then it wouldnít be necessary to track down what happened. But, since it hasnít been returned, further research is required.

    As I stated before, after consulting with our bank, they confirmed that they have not received the funds. And, since you donít have the funds either, they have advised me that you need to request that your bank perform a trace to determine the details on what happened to the payment request. Payment requests can fail for a variety of reasons, and in those situations it is necessary to have the sending bank perform a trace request to determine what happened to the funds.
    Quote Originally Posted by Affiliate Program on 16 January
    Thank you very much for the explanation. I transferred all the information to the accounting department and we will once again check the payment on your account. I will write to you when I receive an answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Affiliate Program on 16 January
    In the attachment is a document stating that we made the payment. Our accounting department said that money has left us and that further, you should find out from your bank where the money is, not us. Please take this document from us, confirming that we made the payment, and contact your bank.
    Quote Originally Posted by Me on 16 January
    The feedback from your accounting department does not make sense, given the way the banking system works. Please let me explain this in more detail.

    The document you provided is from your bank documenting that a request was made to the bank to make the international payment as documented in that payment order. Based on that request, your bank will be expected to perform a couple of actions. One action will be debiting your bank account for the amount of the funds to be paid to us. The other action will be to submit a request to an external international payment system such as SWIFT to transfer the funds to our bank account at xxxx bank using the IBAN number provided for that purpose. The fact that the funds were successfully withdrawn from your account does not confirm that the funds were successfully transferred to our Bank. In fact our bank states that they have not received the funds. The document you provided is only proof that you requested that your bank make a payment. It is not proof that such a payment was actually made.

    In such a situation it is not possible for our bank to request that the transfer be traced. Such a trace can only be initiated by the sending bank, since only the sending bank knows the information that must be provided to SWIFT to request a trace. I do not know for certain that SWIFT was the method your bank used to perform the transfer, but I do note from the following website page xxxx that your bank is a member of SWIFT international payment system. Only your bank will know how the transfer was performed, and only your bank will know the transaction identifier and date and time stamp associated with the actual funds transfer request that was initiated based on the payment order you have provided.

    Of course, what is reasonable is for your bank to ask for us to confirm with our bank that the payment was not received, just as I asked you to check to see of the funds were deposited back into your bank account. However, when neither of us can locate the funds in that fashion, which is the situation at hand, it is the responsibility of the sending organization to go to their bank and request that their bank perform a trace to determine the location of the funds from the perspective of the payment system used (I expect SWIFT was used).
    Quote Originally Posted by Affiliate Program on 20 January
    Sorry for the late reply. I transferred your message to our account department and waited for them a response. Unfortunately, they said that you should find the money because we paid you, and we don't have this money in our bank account.
    Quote Originally Posted by Me on 20 January
    Please reaffirm to your finance department that, contrary to their assumption, we have definitely not received any payment.

    I agree, from the payment request provided, that your organization asked your bank to pay us. However, even though you report that your bank has withdrawn the funds from your account, that does not mean we have been paid. In situations like this is the paying organizationís responsibility to ask their bank to trace the payment request in order so that they can provide the standard documentation trace requests provide regarding the relevant details of the disposition of the payment request.

    It is standard accounting practice for traces to be requested when a transaction has not been completed successfully. If your accounting department will not ask your bank to perform such a trace, then I kindly request that I be provided with the contact information for the executive to which the accounting department reports.
    GPWA Executive Director, Casino City CEO, Friend to the Village Idiot
    Resources for Affiliates: iGamingDirectory.com, iGamingAffiliatePrograms.com, GamingMeets.com

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  3. #2
    PROFRBcom's Avatar
    PROFRBcom is offline Private Member
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    We have definitely had to audit payments before. I would say a dozen times, one program in particular half of those. When questioned they always investigated and said it was paid, would not believe us until we screenshotted lots of ledgers showing previously rec'd payments but with the questioned ones missing.

    All in all, it is an enormous pain in the ass when this happens.

    Even when you are fairly sure the program is legit, even if you've worked with them for years, you can't help but consider they might be skimming every now and again in this way.
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  4. #3
    goals is offline Public Member
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    I've had this happen to me a couple of times.

    After much digging, it turned out that the affiliate manager was faking the proof of payment to delay payments, later citing that the bank declined the transfer or that the bank requested more paperwork etc.

    Reputable operator too but shady affiliate manager, who still happens to work for them!

    I would prefer not to name names though
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  5. #4
    canaryjohn is offline Public Member
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    hehe this is such a dirty trick that some affiliate managers use.

    We've tonnes of instances where a program has sent us some sort of weird looking POP. Naturally we mark it off as paid since we're not looking to catch anyone out.

    But if we then see that this was a BS POP.

    That's the end of the relationship. At that point they can stick their payment up their ***.

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  7. #5
    goals is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by canaryjohn View Post

    But if we then see that this was a BS POP.

    That's the end of the relationship. At that point they can stick their payment up their ***.
    +1
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    Thankfully only a couple of times.
    In both cases it got sorted, without too much drama; especially not compared to what you've documented Michael.

    Clearly the Account Manager (Aff program) should have delegated you contact directly with their Account Dept., because it seems he his totally clueless to how a bank wire functions. Which, probably didn't help, when he related the missing-wire-issue to the Account Dept., to begin with.

    Did this get sorted out, or is it still an ongoing saga? If so, I'd be curious to know when this is sorted out, and you get paid

  9. #7
    Malikbhai is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by goals View Post
    I've had this happen to me a couple of times.

    After much digging, it turned out that the affiliate manager was faking the proof of payment to delay payments, later citing that the bank declined the transfer or that the bank requested more paperwork etc.

    Reputable operator too but shady affiliate manager, who still happens to work for them!


    I would prefer not to name names though
    Not possible without the go ahead from the owners; unless this person was basically transferring money into his/her own account.

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