Interesting Thread at CM re. Grand Duke (PRIOR OWNERS)

[FictionNet]

I came across this thread today at CM:
http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...ue-system.html

The short of it is that a player has been denied payment for blackjack winnings. If the player has accurately copy/pasted corres. from Grand Duke then it appears the casino is accusing the player of using a 'system' to beat blackjack. If that's the case, the software (Playtech) cannot be random and must be rigged.

If the player is making this stuff up, I'll stand by Grand Duke/Integra. If, however, the player is telling the truth and Grand Duke are using rigged software and/or using fake excuses to avoid genuine payments then I will have no option but to blacklist the casino.

I'll be watching this case with interest. I'm not assigning guilt and I hope it's not as bad as it seems. But it doesn't look good...

[GamTrak]

Being that no one from the adminstration or mod staff has commented I would not put much weight into the accusation. Granted I did not read the thread as there are just a bunch of folks giving "opinions" which has nothing much to add to the issue.

I guess we will have to wait and see, but it's been my experience that players will do anything to 'win' and that includes using cheats. I'm not saying that is the case here as I have no way of knowing so hope it gets resolved.

[FictionNet]

I don't know of any 'cheats' that can beat online blackjack but I'll watch this case to find out. It's a relatively new thread at CM and it's worth reading. Lots of interesting stuff.

[theGman]

Perhaps Yuval would like to respond to this thread, i cant really see how Playtech software could be manipulated which leaves only one other possible conclusion. Grand Duke are shafting this player.

[baldidiot]

The way I see it there are two possible explanations:

1. Grand Duke are trying to screw the player over, or
2. The player is telling fibs and/or isn't telling us the whole truth

Either way I think we'd all like to see a response from grand duke regarding the issue.

[Simmo!]

Being that no one from the adminstration or mod staff has commented I would not put much weight into the accusation.

If a PAB/offical complaint has been submittted, which it has in this case, it's pretty much standard practice for admins, mods and "interested parties" not to get involved in the thread between that point and the point at which the resolution is forthcoming. This is to allow a resolution to be reached without inflaming the issue or antagonising either party and thus jeopardising the chances of getting to the bottom of the complaint.

[GamTrak]

If a PAB/offical complaint has been submittted, which it has in this case, it's pretty much standard practice for admins, mods and "interested parties" not to get involved in the thread between that point and the point at which the resolution is forthcoming.

Thanks for the information Simmo. Being that I got banned and labeled "to annoying" two years ago after defending myself after member(s) were allowed to make nasty statements about me personally and my website it's hard for me to know what is going on over there these days.

I do however remember the admin and mods taking their jabs at me as well so your new policy is one that I was not aware of, but it's to bad you guys still have the post(s) in public view.

Sorry for the derail.

[FictionNet]

If a PAB/offical complaint has been submittted, which it has in this case, it's pretty much standard practice for admins, mods and "interested parties" not to get involved in the thread between that point and the point at which the resolution is forthcoming. This is to allow a resolution to be reached without inflaming the issue or antagonising either party and thus jeopardising the chances of getting to the bottom of the complaint.

I agree. I believe the PAB was submitted after I opened this thread. I'm now going to sit out and see what happens. It'd be wrong for me to comment before then and I reiterate that I'm not assigning any guilt yet. I have, however, paused the existings links to Grand Duke, pending the results. If the caisno is shown to have been blameless, I'll be doubling their exposure. Fair is fair.

[Integra-Partners]

We understand that a PAB has been filed with Casinomeister and anticipate hearing from them shortly. We’ll work with Casinomeister to check, double-check, and re-check everything. We take these types of complaints very seriously, and seek to resolve the issue quickly.

[Redbush54]

Casinomeister has just issued a rogue warning.

http://www.casinomeister.com/rogue/grandduke.php

[theGman]

Can someone from Integra respond on this forum ? If you as you say take the matter seriously - what is your response to being rouged by the Casinomeister forum.

I think that his explanation makes complete sense and that you have got what you deserve. Your casino has tried to implement some very sharp practices on a player. Do you have any comment to make re this ? Are you going to make good the situation.

[Leo]

In the first post at CM you can read the email the player received, stating that the player won by using a 'system'. That's not possible since systems don't work with online blackjack, due to the cards being shuffled after every hand. Therefore the casino either doesn't understand the random nature of their software, or they are telling a blatant lie to avoid paying the player. Either way they are wrong and need to pay the player, yet they have chosen to stand by their decision. In other words, any player with a lucky winning streak (which statistically is going to happen fairly often) is fair game to have their winnings cancelled for bogus reasons. I certainly won't be promoting this casino until the situation is resolved, it simply isn't honest to promote a casino that is willing to cancel player's winnings with no legitimate reason.

[FictionNet]

Looks like I made the right decision in pulling this casino's links. It appears we may have a new, rogue casino in our community.

[baldidiot]

Looks like I made the right decision in pulling this casino's links. It appears we may have a new, rogue casino in our community.

Good spot, mate!

Would still like a response from grand duke though (I don't promote them, I'm just curious).

[Integra-Partners]

Hey Guys,

To be frank, We are all slightly baffled by us being entered into CM's rogue list, primarily because no one ever contacted us from CM to clarify the situation from our end, and we have yet to receive a response from them after reaching out. I'm not sure if there is a written policy regarding the conditions of a brand being placed on the rogue list, but it seems like a swift decision was made based solely on one player complaint, and an abusive player at that.
I believe it's premature to make judgments solely based on one side of the story, without understanding the reasoning behind this decision. We look forward to solving the situation as quickly as possible.

[Leo]

no one ever contacted us from CM to clarify the situation from our end, and we have yet to receive a response from them after reaching out.

On the CM forum, CM wrote :

They've decided to stick to their guns, and to not comment any further (which is their prerogative).

CM doesn't jump to conclusions and rogue without attempting to clarify the situation first. Of course it's possible that communications were attempted but were unsuccessful for some reason.

a swift decision was made based solely on one player complaint, and an abusive player at that.

Personally I am open to hear both sides to make an informed decision, but already your claim of the player being abusive seems offset by the fact that the casino was seriously offensive in claiming the player used a system to beat blackjack... That is simply not possible online due to constant shuffling, so the casino was obviously making a BS excuse to not pay.

Looking forward to hearing more.

[Integra-Partners]

I'm sure we will talk to CM soon and find a resolution to the situation. With that being said, judgements have been made quickly, no attempt to contact us has been made, and I wouldn't allow myself to use the word "abusive" about a player if there wasn't enough information to back it up.

[theGman]

I'm sure we will talk to CM soon and find a resolution to the situation. With that being said, judgements have been made quickly, no attempt to contact us has been made, and I wouldn't allow myself to use the word "abusive" about a player if there wasn't enough information to back it up.

If that is the case why do you not post that information here. Believe it or not , there are a lot more webmasters at this forum than you will find at the Casinomeister forum. If you have information please provide it.As far as we can tell you simply removed legitimate winnings.

What is the reason for your actions ? I am sure we are all interested to hear your point of view.

[GamTrak]

I agree with theGman that you need to post your findings regarding this situation here at GPWA because I've had your brand removed from my site due to your status at Casinomeister. Until I can hear the entire story I have to keep it that way to protect my players.

[jackieonweb]

I am the player in question.
I have uploaded their email to me, and some screenshots I took after I won.
There's all the proof guys, they shafted me.
http://i55.tinypic.com/24phqc4.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/2vjycd0.jpg
http://i54.tinypic.com/34exnr5.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/209fuwh.jpg
http://i55.tinypic.com/rkapv7.jpg