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  1. #1
    bb1web's Avatar
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    Default isn't it about time we pulled together for the common good

    Hello to all my old friends from GPWA and hello to what I hope will be new friends.

    Today I am sitting over at CAP reading all the bitching about the blackhat SEO technics and what should be done about it. Mainly the scraper sites are of subject today and the most reasonable conclusion I have read is that it should be put upon the aff programs that support these blackhat cheaters to be forced to put a stop to it.

    Which makes perfect sense but for one problem. They are ignoring our boycotts because they're not feeling them with enough force.

    Now add to that one of my biggest concerns, which is the recent change of T&Cs that many of the programs are FORCING on us; and once again IMHO it shows that we are not getting the kind of respect that we deserve.

    IMO it will only get worse, not better. I believe it has been proven and continues to be proven that the casinos/aff programs are respecting us less and less as time is going by.

    I suspect partly this is due to their finding a way around the advertising blockades via the use of the tv (and the scraper sites) .... for example: the party poker dot net ads which as we all know are a very translucent ad for the dot com site.

    that and the scraper sites, just those two venues, are sending mobs of traffic which were once using the SEs to find their places to gamble.

    In the case of the scraper sites, the traffic hasn't moved, just your rankings. Keeping in mind that these scraper sites are stealing the obscure keyword traffic as much or more than the obvious, because anything you've got that gets traffic, is or will eventually fall victim to having been copied - so if scraper sites aren't your concern now, they will be. Why wait until the worst happens before you begin to fight?

    So who is responsible for these sites? my answer to that is "who cares?".

    cheaters will always be around. I believe its up to those of us who play fair to dictate that cheaters won't prosper in the long run, and neither will those who support the cheaters. And that's where it gets real easy to find somebody to put a finger on their chest.

    But I also think when you consider the vastness of how far these scraper sites reach, that it is going to take something massive to have enough impact on sponsors to get them to stop supporting the scrapers.

    which is why I think CAP and gpwa should try and get together on these matters (if not all matters, we are after all, all working towards the same goal: getting treated fairly).

    Perhaps the leaders of the two communities could get together and come to an agreement of sorts to help push these problems to the forefront and get some action going.

    **************************

    I leave you with a post another at CAP had made and has given me permission to post here, because I think it helps explain the situation:

    quote:
    Every day we wait we get hurt more.

    Here is an example:

    http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=fr...-tab-web-t&b=21

    Click on result 21 and look at the page. Then go back and look at the cached page.

    This is an example of how our sites are being hurt.

    The cached page, the actual page, now has all kinds of "duplicate content" out there. It can get penalized or even removed by the search engine for this.

    This site is a victim of Black Hat seo.

    There is no way anyone can claim this is morally acceptable - it is evil intentioned sabotage.

    We need to put an end to this. Between programs starting to breach contract with us and adding very hurtful clauses to their T&Cs and unscrupulous Black Hat SEO types ruining our relationship with search engines and stealing our traffic and sabotaging our sites - damn, we are between a rock and a hard place.

    We need to fight back - NOW!

    unquote:


    Any suggestions or show of support would be appreciated.
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  2. #2
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    Hi BB1

    I can't quite see what you are driving at with the example? It comes up with a blog page in the crawled result and in the cached view?

    Maybe I read it wrong. Please offer some guidance.

    Regarding scraper sites though, we simply have to work together as we pick up one after another that are the perpetrators. We have had a lot of co-operation from the affiliate program's actually. Not perfect but working in the same direction that you have laid out.

    With the changed terms and conditions, we gave the programs a platform to explain themselves if they wanted to and then, we left it to the members to vote with their "feet". Some stayed, some moderated their exposure, and some simply left.

    We will see, I do not think there will be another major commission shakeup for a good while.
    Have a wonderful day

    Brian
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  3. #3
    bb1web's Avatar
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    ;Hi Brian, and thank you for your reply.

    Perhaps the example was a bad one. I borroowed it from someone else and to be honest didn't check it myself, I just assumed it was valid.

    Regardless, I can see gpwa is aware and willing to do something about the scraper sites.

    basically IMHO the scraper sites will continue and will eventually do everyone harm if they are not stopped. And I bellieve that short of the SEs doing something about them, it is left up to the sponsors that support the kind of affiliates that do such things, to be held accountable for their actions.

    to be honest I'm not even sure a collective boycott from both our communities would be enough to force the sponsors to stop paying these kind of affiliates because lets be honest, its just a matter of time before the scraper sites will have effectively copied all the gambling niche webs. Sound crazy? Perhaps. But whether that prediction turns out to be 100% correct, or 60% correct, its still going to be felt be a whole lot of us.

    Has anyone done a search to check to see if their content has been copied? I think you'd be amazed at the results.

    I wish I could tell you how, but I can't remember. But I'm sure some knowledgeable folks here could easily give that answer.


    ***********************
    The epitimy of my post is a plea to bring together for the common good, two obviously separate entities which although do share a respective amount of the same traffic, they also have their own seemingly exclusive followers who should for the better of us all; be brought together for a collective bargaining tool for at least the bigger issues that we all face.

    I give you an example; pretend you're an aff manager.

    On the one hand, you have two separate communities wanting to stop/reverse the avalanche of recent changing of terms without our having a say.

    each community will respond in similar but also there will likely be two different approaches. The manager can, once he gets a foothold on one community, then be optimistic (if he/she is willing to hold out) that the second community will also give way enough for the matter to be (as so often the sponsors do), ... put-off so that it is forgotten or becomes so watered down that it no longer is truly a threat to the way they do business.

    Thus we lose. The only thing gained is we got to bitch about it for a while.

    _________________________


    Now consider you face a united front. One where there appears to be no credible foothold to begin the defensive.

    _________________________


    It becomes much harder for the programs to ignore, or put-off in hopes this will be lost in the passing of time.


    Its time to stop cutting off our noses in order to spite our face; if you will allow that as a loose analogy.

    I believe this will only happen with the encouragement of us grunts. So far I've heard a lot of talk; for instance I was with the understanding that gpwa was going to do away with the form you have to sign to become a full member.

    I know that's all holding me back and I know others that feel the same way.

    As for CAP, I cannot say what the deal is; whether its just people here have not migrated, or that it is something to do with CAP's end of things, I simply don't know. I didn't talk to the Prof before coming here because I personally felt that if I could convince gpwa members to consider a closer relationship; that the Prof would also be agreeable.

    Frankly I consider all parties in the position to accomplish a better working relationship; to be reasonable, logically thinking human beings.

    Why things have reached the point they currently exist; is IMHO much the same reason the world is like it is; for some reason if you put two people from what the world view would consider opposing sides, the two people usually find a way to work things out.

    Involve the govt of the two people, and suddenly you have the impass that is the norm in so many relationships between countries.

    Perhaps it is still too soon to have brought all this up, but sometimes forces that threaten from beyond: demand that differences be put aside for the common good, if not out right survival; of the two parties in question.

    I've planted a seed. I hope it grows.

    Thank you all for your time in hearing me out. I remain your friend, think of many of you often, and hope for better understanding and closer relationships in the coming future.

    Steve Briggs
    bb1webs
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  4. #4
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    Thanks Steve.

    I will refrain from posting here about my thoughts on the matter at this particular time, but have been and will continue to be involved in many of the internal discussions we have had on ALL the matters you have listed.

    It's good to see you stop by here, and don't be such a stranger.

    I have never stopped calling you friend.

    Rick
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    don't even get me started on these copy sites......I'm so sick of seeing redirects on google for goldenpalace.com it makes me sick!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by WebMeisterQ
    don't even get me started on these copy sites......I'm so sick of seeing redirects on google for goldenpalace.com it makes me sick!!!!!
    Quite. But Casino Blasters are not the only affiliate program that seem to turn a blind eye to their affiliates creating these types of sites. It would be good that all affiliate programs actually vetted websites which request to join their program - such as the likes of William Hills and 32Red already do.
    Exit stage left

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    Quote Originally Posted by bb1web
    The epitimy of my post is a plea to bring together for the common good, two obviously separate entities which although do share a respective amount of the same traffic, they also have their own seemingly exclusive followers who should for the better of us all; be brought together for a collective bargaining tool for at least the bigger issues that we all face.

    I give you an example; pretend you're an aff manager.

    On the one hand, you have two separate communities wanting to stop/reverse the avalanche of recent changing of terms without our having a say.

    each community will respond in similar but also there will likely be two different approaches. The manager can, once he gets a foothold on one community, then be optimistic (if he/she is willing to hold out) that the second community will also give way enough for the matter to be (as so often the sponsors do), ... put-off so that it is forgotten or becomes so watered down that it no longer is truly a threat to the way they do business.

    Thus we lose. The only thing gained is we got to bitch about it for a while.

    _________________________


    Now consider you face a united front. One where there appears to be no credible foothold to begin the defensive.

    _________________________
    Steve Briggs
    bb1webs
    There was a united front here at one time, as I'm sure you'll recall.

    Perhaps some people should've considered the long term effects on our industry before they decided to split GPWA; but our industry was the last thing on their minds, wasn't it?

  8. #8
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    Thumbs up

    Sponsors are unlikely to give a damn about how their affiliates promote them, unless they are penalized (see canspam)... since after all, they are making money, regardless of who promotes them or the methods used.

    So it is on us to put up red flags.

    Report keyword spamming to google here:
    http://www.google.com/contact/spamreport.html

    I am not sure of yahoo's reporting url, so i suggest:
    http://add.yahoo.com/fast/help/us/ysearch/cgi_feedback

  9. #9
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    Have a wonderful day

    Brian
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