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  1. #1
    baldidiot is online now Private Member
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    Default JOB/Uffiliates Migration & Reduced Commissions

    Just got around to sorting out my joy of bingo to uffiliates migration and noticed the commission rates have significantly changed (for the worse).

    Old rates (rev based):

    1 to 5,000 - 25%
    5,001 to 15,000 - 30%
    15,001 to 35,000 - 35%
    35,001 to 55,000 - 40%
    55,001 to 75,000 - 45%
    75,000+ - 50%

    New Rates (RMP based):

    0 to 20 - 20.00%
    21 to 30 - 25%
    31 to 40 - 30%
    40+ - 35%

    So now we need to send at least 20 RMP's to get the same revenue we got with JOB, and they've cut off anything above 35%.
    onlinegamblingwebsites.com - Formally known as goodbonusguide.

  2. #2
    lowrisk is offline Private Member
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    When POC hits, chances are it'll get worse before it gets better Matt

  3. #3
    lowrisk is offline Private Member
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    You should work with better programs (that offer stands)

  4. #4
    -Shay- is offline Public Member
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    I didn't see this thread til just now. There's a whole lot more that changes as a result of the JOB migration as well. For the record, I was very upset when I saw the differences. The changes apparently upset our manager as well. He "seemed" unaware of how very different the terms from JOB were to Uffiliates.

    Have a firm discussion with your affiliate manager about the changes. We've found them willing and able to work with us.

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  6. #5
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    That's good to know Shay, and I sincerely hope some of you will get decent deals worked out....but....

    If the terms of service in writing and the "standard" deals that all affiliates are offered are NOT fair (especially to small affiliates) I will recommend to most affiliates to NOT work with them.

    Rick
    Universal4

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  8. #6
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    Joining your recommendation Rick, these changes are a joke !

  9. #7
    baldidiot is online now Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Shay- View Post
    I didn't see this thread til just now. There's a whole lot more that changes as a result of the JOB migration as well. For the record, I was very upset when I saw the differences. The changes apparently upset our manager as well. He "seemed" unaware of how very different the terms from JOB were to Uffiliates.

    Have a firm discussion with your affiliate manager about the changes. We've found them willing and able to work with us.
    Yeah tbh they did offer me a better deal... problem is I only have the on the backburner atm and to get the bigger percentage requires increasing their coverage.

    As Rick said, I prefer pushing programs where the 'standard' deal is fair as it is - you never know what'll happen in the future with your deal/traffic etc...
    onlinegamblingwebsites.com - Formally known as goodbonusguide.

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  11. #8
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    888 have deep pockets, acquiring everything that move in the bingo world
    Was the same story with Ladies Bingo, before.
    How about their existing brands like 888 Ladies and 888 Bingo?
    Any changes in their T&C ?

  12. #9
    -Shay- is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamer View Post
    888 have deep pockets, acquiring everything that move in the bingo world
    Was the same story with Ladies Bingo, before.
    How about their existing brands like 888 Ladies and 888 Bingo?
    Any changes in their T&C ?
    The "Joy of Bingo" brands (Wink Bingo, Posh Bingo, Tasty Bingo, Bingo Street, Big Brother, and Red Bus Bingo) are the only ones (I know of) that experienced a change in terms and conditions. This is a result of the migration off the Joy of Bingo platform onto the Uffiliates system. I never had the option of offering 888 Ladies or 888 bingo through Joy of Bingo, so for me, those terms have not changed.

    As I've mentioned, I was extremely upset to discover (after the fact) all the differences between the standard terms at JOB and the standard agreement at Uffiliates. I'm also not a fan of how the system works at Uffiliates, but that's another post on another day.

    I do urge everyone who now finds themselves working with Uffiliates from the Joy of Bingo migration to go over the Uffiliates terms with a fine toothed comb compared to the original Joy of Bingo terms, as there are many differences. When you have uncovered the differences, decide if you're comfortable with them (we were not). Then, open a dialogue with your affiliate manager - cite the changes and tell your AM what you want. They do have some flexibility, so be sure to open a dialogue with them (and get any changes in writing).

  13. #10
    baldidiot is online now Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Shay- View Post
    I do urge everyone who now finds themselves working with Uffiliates from the Joy of Bingo migration to go over the Uffiliates terms with a fine toothed comb compared to the original Joy of Bingo terms, as there are many differences. When you have uncovered the differences, decide if you're comfortable with them (we were not). Then, open a dialogue with your affiliate manager - cite the changes and tell your AM what you want. They do have some flexibility, so be sure to open a dialogue with them (and get any changes in writing).
    Can you be more specific as to what else they've snuck in?
    onlinegamblingwebsites.com - Formally known as goodbonusguide.

  14. #11
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    Shy
    "I'm also not a fan of how the system works at Uffiliates, but that's another post on another day."
    I do not know any person that is a fan of Uffiliates system, around the world. It's really obsolete and "old-fashioned" reporting system that many people just do not trust. I really do not understand why they are reluctant for years, to change this situation.
    Perhaps, the system is "in favour" of the owner. Who knows!? No one is going to explain that for affiliates!
    Although, I do promote Uffiliates brands but never expected any good results. They just do not convert well for me. I really do not why.
    p.s.
    By the way, I am just curious what are t&c (of "Joy of Bingo" brands) offered to the existing Uffiliates affiliates!?
    Have to check it in my account, later on.

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    -Shay- is offline Public Member
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    Joy of Bingo terms and conditions

    Uffiliates terms and conditions

    The Uffiliates terms are the ones that are offered after the migration. The Joy of Bingo terms were the ones that were in effect prior to the migration.

  16. #13
    RacingJim is offline Public Member
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    I also got an email from an affiliate manager offering me a 'better commission' rate for improved coverage.

    Typical affiliate industry bullshit. Take it away from us and then offer us the same deal as previously but for increased coverage. It's very tiresome. I've not had much joy with 888 Sport or bingo so far, low customer value and they don't seem to continue to play for a long time. So I'm gona have to leave my accounts at the default affiliate percentage cos I'm not giving crap programs (that reduce your % without telling you) extra coverage, EVER.

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  18. #14
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    Not only the T&Cs are worse, but the software is worse. I told them this when they first raised the move and have done so on many occasions since. Even simple stuff like figures in US$ - WTF???

    What a lot of affiliate managers (and companies) fail to grasp is that affiliates have a multitude of choices of who to work with.

    If you or your system are **** and a PITA then we'll just ignore you.

    Affiliates will gravitate towards brands that are the easiest to use (why should I have to do a currency conversion?), have the easiest to use features (you try finding your way round Uffiliates.....) and offer proper reporting systems (show me how much I've earnt is a pre-requisite UA FFS).

    JoB was fine. UA is ****. Guess what we'll be doing........

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  20. #15
    -Shay- is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by whichbingo View Post
    Not only the T&Cs are worse, but the software is worse. I told them this when they first raised the move and have done so on many occasions since. Even simple stuff like figures in US$ - WTF???

    What a lot of affiliate managers (and companies) fail to grasp is that affiliates have a multitude of choices of who to work with.

    If you or your system are **** and a PITA then we'll just ignore you.

    Affiliates will gravitate towards brands that are the easiest to use (why should I have to do a currency conversion?), have the easiest to use features (you try finding your way round Uffiliates.....) and offer proper reporting systems (show me how much I've earnt is a pre-requisite UA FFS).

    JoB was fine. UA is ****. Guess what we'll be doing........

    Phil, I totally agree that their software is horrible. New players disappear and they claimed the glitch (at JoB) was in the payment calculation/processing. Yet, here we are in the first whole month with the "better" system that there's been a payment glitch (for us).

    For us, I think they're going on the **** list until they get their act together.

  21. #16
    -Shay- is offline Public Member
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    This month, over 30% of my new players have simply "disappeared" from the Uffiliates system.

    I understand they have different columns in their report --- specifically "Leads" and "Real Money Players". The difference between the two (from what I can understand) is that Leads are new depositing players and Real Money Players have passed verification.

    The claim being made by our affiliate manager when asked about these disappearing players is that they have been flagged for some sort of fraud. If this were the case, one would think they'd be backed out of the "Real Money Players" and show only as a lead (and perhaps a charge back). Instead, these players straight up disappear from existence in the system with no footnote, no evidence, no discussion, and no explaination.

    This is not a way that I'm able to work --- even if we were at 100% rev share.

    Final notice --- get your **** together

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  23. #17
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    Wow shay, thanks for sharing this. amazing this **** actually happened....

    Did they tell you if this glitch happened only with your account or also other account ?
    Is this connected to the problem with the payment ?

    Since I know my self I always suspicious, about almost any program because I know **** like this can happened

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    -Shay- is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocreditor View Post
    Wow shay, thanks for sharing this. amazing this **** actually happened....

    Did they tell you if this glitch happened only with your account or also other account ?
    Is this connected to the problem with the payment ?

    Since I know my self I always suspicious, about almost any program because I know **** like this can happened
    They did not say whether others were paid or not and they maintain that the players were removed (without any evidence of ever being in the system mind you) due to some sort of fraud. Which again, I understand that some players may be flagged for whatever - but my personal belief is that there should be a "paper trail" showing their removal.

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  26. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Shay- View Post
    They did not say whether others were paid or not and they maintain that the players were removed (without any evidence of ever being in the system mind you) due to some sort of fraud. Which again, I understand that some players may be flagged for whatever - but my personal belief is that there should be a "paper trail" showing their removal.
    What I still not understand is that if they confirm this glitch where players removed due to a fraud flag or whatever, why they can't
    send any update and explain why 30% of the players erased from the account. Only thinking about this is shocking.
    How is this connected to payments... its a shame.

    Anything done in affiliate account the affiliate must know about this first (I'm not sure here if they told you or you find it out yourself...)

    Did they say anything about why this was happened ? why 30% flagged fraud ?

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    -Shay- is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ocreditor View Post
    What I still not understand is that if they confirm this glitch where players removed due to a fraud flag or whatever, why they can't
    send any update and explain why 30% of the players erased from the account. Only thinking about this is shocking.
    How is this connected to payments... its a shame.

    Anything done in affiliate account the affiliate must know about this first (I'm not sure here if they told you or you find it out yourself...)

    Did they say anything about why this was happened ? why 30% flagged fraud ?
    I've gathered that the payment glitch is different from the flagging of these players for fraud of some sort.

    As for how we found out - when we start with a new brand/company or if something changes, we monitor the stats very closely. When uffiliates switched from Joy of Bingo, we monitored to ensure all was "right" in the switch. Additionally, we'd check throughout the day to see activity. When checking, I noticed that we'd be credited with a few new players and I'd make a mental note of the number of new players this month and the earnings reported.

    Then, I logged in later in the day and noticed the numbers were less on both totals (less new players on the month and less earnings). At first, I thought I was imagining things --- then I started recording the figures and sure enough, it was not my imagination.

    when we asked our AM, he generically claims "fraud or incomplete player details" and won't elaborate further, citing he is not allowed to reveal the reasons. If I were to take a very educated guess - I'm guessing that the system "erases" credit for new players who already have an account with other "Joy of Bingo brands". There's a ridiculous term that states affiliates won't be credited for players who already have an account with another of their brands. Thus, if a visitor comes to your site looking for a suggestion of where to play --- and they decide Wink Bingo based on your suggestion --- and they play there loyally for months & then they come back to your portal --- decide they liked your advice the first time and this time they decide to play at Red Bus Bingo because you suggested it ---- you, as an affiliate are not credited with their activity. That is what I think is happening, as the system is removing these players after the fact. We have a lot of "regulars" who visit our website.

    I could be wrong, but the AM is unwilling to provide details. In my opinion, if something appears in my report, if it is removed or modified, there needs to be documentation of such things --- not just deleted.

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