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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGooner View Post
    Many more Americans die at the hands of gun toting fellow Americans every year than they do from international terrorism.
    I think I read somewhere that twice as many Americans are killed by hand and foot, than are killed by guns. Unfortunately I can't remember the source, but I'll try to find it.

    With regards to your comment, if the Las Vegas shooting was by ANTIFA, does that coint as terrorism, or as government control of the population?

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by allfreechips View Post
    People are free to leave, and free to not visit the US.. simple, easy and straight forward. The us Constitution and amendments is the single strongest beacon of freedom in the world period.
    You don't allow to drink a beer outside of a bar.
    You need to carry alcohol in a plastic bag.
    You have laws against the size of a Coca Cola that can be sold on the streets.
    Abortion is illegal in half of the states.
    Last, and most important, I doubt there is a country with so much info being gathered on its citizens


    But yes, carrying guns, that what defines freedom.
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  3. #43
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    OK alowing millions to be slaughtered by abortion is an issue, way more deaths than by guns so you got me there.

    Citizen info gathering, if you think the US is the worst your mistaken but yes that needs to be eliminated

    Crazy liberal local laws like soda in NY is just that

    None of these items are protected in the amendments or constitution other than the right to life that abortion destroys.
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  5. #44
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    vaccination destroys lives as well. Big Pharma drugs are mind changing, and create the mental distortions that result in terrorists amongst other things.

  6. #45
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    Its not even a valid argument comparing the deaths by guns with that of the terrorist.
    Compare the number of gun deaths with that of drunk driving and you'll see a totally different picture.
    (Every 2-hours, three people are killed in alcohol-related highway crashes.)

    So the question is, are you willing to give up your drinking culture?


    As a far the pro abortion advocates go, let me ask you this:
    You walking in the woods and you come across a birds nest full of eggs. So do you crush them? if not then please state why. Exactly!

  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by slotplayer View Post
    Its not even a valid argument comparing the deaths by guns with that of the terrorist.
    Compare the number of gun deaths with that of drunk driving and you'll see a totally different picture.
    I compared and found that the number of TOTAL deaths in the USA by vehicles IS slightly more at around 40,000 a year or 520,000 for the period 2001-2013. This compares to just over 400,000 for guns deaths in the same period.

    However, alcohol factors are only responsible for 29% (according to this study in 2015)- so that would be about 160,000 drunk drive incident deaths.
    Source : https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafe...factsheet.html

    So once again gun deaths are 2.5 times MORE than drunk driver deaths.
    Facts - not fiction - not fake news.


    So how do I see a totally different picture? I don't. Guns in America are a huge killer of Americans. One of the biggest.

    Now consider the time, effort and money the US has spent combating drunk driving.
    Consider the time, effort, and billions of dollars the US government has spent prosecuting foreign wars in the "war on terror".

    And look at those numbers again :
    - 3,300 deaths to terrorism 2001-2013
    - 160,000 deaths to drunk driving 2001-2013
    - 408,000 deaths to domestic guns 2001-2013.

    All because of an 18th century document that is being used as a basis for 21st century gun control?
    You have to be kidding? Don't you?

    ---------------------------------------------

    But don't worry, I don't expect you to change your mind or even give it a second serious thought.

    It's called "confirmation bias". It's very difficult for the average person to change a fixed view.
    They will reject all information that challenges their view of an issue, and only latch onto information that confirms it.
    This is why social media abounds. People link to like-minded people to confirm their opinions.

    It takes a rare individual to actually consider new information and facts and modify their position accordingly..
    Perhaps if I throw in a #MAGA, or some other trite slogan you'll take the time to read and actually consider it?

    Probably not. SAD

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  9. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGooner View Post
    I compared and found that the number of TOTAL deaths in the USA by vehicles IS slightly more at around 40,000 a year or 520,000 for the period 2001-2013. This compares to just over 400,000 for guns deaths in the same period.

    However, alcohol factors are only responsible for 29% (according to this study in 2015)- so that would be about 160,000 drunk drive incident deaths.
    Source : https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafe...factsheet.html

    So once again gun deaths are 2.5 times MORE than drunk driver deaths.
    Facts - not fiction - not fake news.


    So how do I see a totally different picture? I don't. Guns in America are a huge killer of Americans. One of the biggest.

    Now consider the time, effort and money the US has spent combating drunk driving.
    Consider the time, effort, and billions of dollars the US government has spent prosecuting foreign wars in the "war on terror".

    And look at those numbers again :
    - 3,300 deaths to terrorism 2001-2013
    - 160,000 deaths to drunk driving 2001-2013
    - 408,000 deaths to domestic guns 2001-2013.

    All because of an 18th century document that is being used as a basis for 21st century gun control?
    You have to be kidding? Don't you?

    ---------------------------------------------

    But don't worry, I don't expect you to change your mind or even give it a second serious thought.

    It's called "confirmation bias". It's very difficult for the average person to change a fixed view.
    They will reject all information that challenges their view of an issue, and only latch onto information that confirms it.
    This is why social media abounds. People link to like-minded people to confirm their opinions.

    It takes a rare individual to actually consider new information and facts and modify their position accordingly..
    Perhaps if I throw in a #MAGA, or some other trite slogan you'll take the time to read and actually consider it?

    Probably not. SAD
    It's about socially accepting one culture while denying another because it fits an ideology, when both are equally deadly.

    What is the number of gun deaths related to gang on gang crime?

    Like I said in a previous post, I don't drink and I'm not a gun enthusiast/advocate, just trying to see it fairly.

  10. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by slotplayer View Post
    It's about socially accepting one culture while denying another because it fits an ideology, when both are equally deadly.
    #ALTERNATIVEFACTS

    Are you trying to mis-speak - or am I not making the numbers clear?
    Gun deaths are 2.5x higher than Drink Driving ... it is NOT equal.
    408,000 > 160,000 ... NOT equal.
    #FACTSNOTFICTION

    No-one has "socially accepted" drink driving - certainly not legislatively.
    There has been plenty of legislation to reduce drink driving limits, and increased drink driving penalties.
    Convicted drunk drivers even have vehicle interlocks fitted to their cars in 20 states to detect alcohol.

    Gun laws - not so much.
    #SAD

  11. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGooner View Post
    I compared and found that the number of TOTAL deaths in the USA by vehicles IS slightly more at around 40,000 a year or 520,000 for the period 2001-2013. This compares to just over 400,000 for guns deaths in the same period.

    However, alcohol factors are only responsible for 29% (according to this study in 2015)- so that would be about 160,000 drunk drive incident deaths.
    Source : https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafe...factsheet.html

    So once again gun deaths are 2.5 times MORE than drunk driver deaths.
    Facts - not fiction - not fake news.


    So how do I see a totally different picture? I don't. Guns in America are a huge killer of Americans. One of the biggest.

    Now consider the time, effort and money the US has spent combating drunk driving.
    Consider the time, effort, and billions of dollars the US government has spent prosecuting foreign wars in the "war on terror".

    And look at those numbers again :
    - 3,300 deaths to terrorism 2001-2013
    - 160,000 deaths to drunk driving 2001-2013
    - 408,000 deaths to domestic guns 2001-2013.

    All because of an 18th century document that is being used as a basis for 21st century gun control?
    You have to be kidding? Don't you?

    ---------------------------------------------

    But don't worry, I don't expect you to change your mind or even give it a second serious thought.

    It's called "confirmation bias". It's very difficult for the average person to change a fixed view.
    They will reject all information that challenges their view of an issue, and only latch onto information that confirms it.
    This is why social media abounds. People link to like-minded people to confirm their opinions.

    It takes a rare individual to actually consider new information and facts and modify their position accordingly..
    Perhaps if I throw in a #MAGA, or some other trite slogan you'll take the time to read and actually consider it?

    Probably not. SAD
    I'm just quoting this in the hope that a second read might help these facts sink in. #FACTSNOTFICTION #WILLYOULISTENIFIUSEAHASHTAG

  12. #50
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    The good thing is people can move out of the US and not visit if they have an issue with it, simple. Guns kill far less people than abortions and that seems to not make anyone upset?
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  13. #51
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    I guess guns destroy far less people and families than gambling when we are at it.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
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    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

  14. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGooner View Post
    #ALTERNATIVEFACTS

    Are you trying to mis-speak - or am I not making the numbers clear?
    Gun deaths are 2.5x higher than Drink Driving ... it is NOT equal.
    408,000 > 160,000 ... NOT equal.
    #FACTSNOTFICTION


    No-one has "socially accepted" drink driving - certainly not legislatively.
    There has been plenty of legislation to reduce drink driving limits, and increased drink driving penalties.
    Convicted drunk drivers even have vehicle interlocks fitted to their cars in 20 states to detect alcohol.

    Gun laws - not so much.
    #SAD
    I posted the numbers from the 2015 study in post #12. Did you see it?

    in 2015 9,959 gun deaths and in 2015 10,265 alcohol related deaths.

    I was referring to the homicides of the innocent. Most gun deaths are suicides and accidental. Factor those out and I bet its not even close.

    Regarding your rant post, Cool the insults. It's petty.

  15. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by slotplayer View Post
    I posted the numbers from the 2015 study in post #12. Did you see it?

    in 2015 9,959 gun deaths and in 2015 10,265 alcohol related deaths.

    I was referring to the homicides of the innocent. Most gun deaths are suicides and accidental. Factor those out and I bet its not even close.
    I really don't understand how it's relevant.

    If you had X% chance dying from alcohol related car accidents and X-1% dying from drug related car accidents. Would you fight the first and yet encourage the second?
    Fine, let's say more people dying from alcohol than from guns. How does that help you?
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    Quote Originally Posted by MMM View Post
    I really don't understand how it's relevant.

    If you had X% chance dying from alcohol related car accidents and X-1% dying from drug related car accidents. Would you fight the first and yet encourage the second?
    Fine, let's say more people dying from alcohol than from guns. How does that help you?
    The left's ultimate goal is to get rid of the 2nd amendment because they don't like guns or the gun culture (Guns are usually equated with the right) and my point is lets take away something they perhaps like and see how they feel, like drinking because it also causes x # of deaths. I'm not so sure they (anyone for that matter) would like it.

  17. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Fun View Post
    It's very sad and worrying, and it's going to get worse. It is now apparent that the theory of eugenics by "the elite" has moved out of the tin foil hat concept and into reality. I gather ISIL has claimed "credit" for the attack, and radical Islam seems to be part of the new army for eugenics.

    Eugenics being the study of humans with desirable traits..

    Killing a bunch of random people like this isn't 'eugenics'. Logic being that killing 'random' people isn't 'selectively' choosing who lives and who dies, there is no selecting the desirable human in this situation. Unless you think people who go to music festivals are somehow inferior human beings.. What hitler did is closer to what you're thinking of.

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    It's really sad what happened. Vegas will never be the same again. My heart goes out to the victims. Man that sucks and what a ****** sitatuation.

    I've had the gun debate extensively many times in the past and what I've realised is that there's no talking to someone who is absolutely pro gun and someone who is absolutely against it. Pandoras box has been opened and now what we see with these mass shootings is just a consequence of allowing guns in the first place. Whether they reduce crime or not, fact is a tool that's been made with the ONLY function to KILL has been made legal and readily available to ANYONE.

    What we really need to look at isn't the guns, its the CULTURE and ENVIRONMENT that nurtures and creates these types of people. Humanity as a whole. Guns are just the symptom...

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    Quote Originally Posted by allfreechips View Post
    People are free to leave, and free to not visit the US.. simple, easy and straight forward. The us Constitution and amendments is the single strongest beacon of freedom in the world period.
    The US Constitution is great but has since been defiled by the Patriot Act which took away many of your freedoms.
    Last edited by DaftDog; 8 October 2017 at 1:10 am.

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  21. #58
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    Man when you look into this its so SKETCHY.

    Did anyone see the video from the taxi driver where its obvious that there's two shooters?

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    I arrived in Vegas 2 days after it happened and I went down to the Mandalay Bay. I have video of the hotel. You can see the windows that had to be replaced because they haven't been scorched by the sun like the others have. There were only 2 windows - both on level 32 - both in the suite that the shooter was staying in.

    There was no window replaced on any floor other than the one that the single shooter was in. Anything you guys are seeing otherwise is fake news. There was also no confirmation that any terror group was involved. Just like the rest, they tried to claim it but were shot down.

    The guy had no criminal background, was a known gambler and spent a lot of time in hotels in vegas. The hotel staff would have seen him many times, and probably knew who he was. They'd have had no reason to suspect him, especially if he had taken the guns into his room in something inconspicuous. A do not disturb sign on the door would have meant noone was entering his room. I usually have one on my room the entire time I stay somewhere because I don't trust cleaners not to steal my ****.

    I don't think there is any point arguing gun laws. I could give the example of how we had a mass shooting in 1996 and also had a constitution that meant we had a right to bear arms, but that the PM didn't care and took them away anyway. People were CRAZY MAD, but we haven't had a single mass shooting since. Everyone got used to it and now are grateful for it. All of our gun related violence is targeted, to do with drugs and money. Innocent people aren't just shot up for no reason, not even by mentally ill people. An assault rifle on the black market in Oz can cost between $15,000 and $40,000 - the same gun that in the US would cost $500. That alone still wouldn't change anyone's mind because there would be reasons argued why we could do that and be successful, but it wouldn't work in another country like the US because of the population difference, or because we are an island nation.

    I have no worthwhile comment on any of the other arguments in this thread. People's moral beliefs are just that. If yours is different from mine, I still respect yours even if you don't respect mine. There are some things that I think shouldn't be discussed on a public forum.

    I wanted to give the 2 cents of someone who actually saw the place with her own eyes. A good friend of mine lost his best friend of 30 years. While I am so grateful that it wasn't me or someone I know (to be fair it could have been considering how many of us were there in that time frame), my heart breaks for my friend and all the other people who were affected by it and I sincerely hope that the next time it happens, me and anyone I know are as far away as possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ace Fun View Post
    vaccination destroys lives as well. Big Pharma drugs are mind changing, and create the mental distortions that result in terrorists amongst other things.
    Vaccines are indeed engineered by the Pharma Industry to cause harm, it's just another tool to push the depopulation program. Some vaccines are still exclusively targeted at newborns of certain ethnicity. Makes you wonder.

    Although I disagree you'd end up as a terrorist just because you have a mental illness caused by a vaccine. Most international terrorism is well orchestrated and funded by the various security and state agencies involved in "fighting terrorism". But it's difficult to connect the dots if we only rely on main stream media.

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