Major issue with BingoVega

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Originally Posted by Anthony

Richard has provided a lot of information regarding the historical issues (thank you Richard) and I reviewed the work Steven did with BTR prior to their joining GPWA. There have not been any significant complaints about the Big Time Revenue affiliate program or sites since they have joined GPWA. I did speak with Fredrik at BTR, he was proud of their track record since working with Steven and restated their commitments they made with GPWA.

Richard did send me a player complaint and payment issue. I have asked for additional information in order to assist. After I receive the additional information I can report on that.

I understand that when a program breaks player or affiliate trust, it is a very difficult to rebuild a sustainable level of trust and there are many that will never trust that program again.

Richard has suggested we remove BTR and if they did not maintain their commitment to operate in a reputable manner we would. As of today I do not have proof they have broke that commitment. I will continue to work with Richard and will be open if he can share recent proof of wrong doing. I reached out to SpecialED last week to see if we can address any questions, still waiting for a reply.

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Any update to this post or does this thread just need to be closed and we'll go about our wondering?

I have not received any additional information or a reply from SpecialED.

I apologizes for not updating earlier. This is a very important issue and did require me to go back two years and read all the emails and Skype logs connected to this issue. Besides have to do a review, I have also have some health issues that I have been dealing with since early last month. Needless to say I have been in slow mode.

With that said, I did my review and just about have my update done for you. I will get in in this evening.

Thanks for your patience.

I have gone 360 degrees on this issue, since I started it 1 February 2012 8:49 am at GPWA! I came here with this issue because of information I received that this program was involved with the Yates family and I received evidence of Bingo Vega rigging their games in 2008-2009.

If the GPWA will allow this link, here is the evidence that Bingo Vega was involved in rigging their games! http://bingoplayersunion.com/phpbb3/...p?f=394&t=8124

This was reported to me on Jan, 1 2012! It did not take long to engage top management in the Bingo Vega discussion. We helped BTR get its membership approved, after Steven approached us that BTR wanted membership into the GPWA and wanted to include Bingo Vega with their brands. We helped them resolve a few back issues, (many years old) and some so old that contact with the complainant was lost.
It was very shortly after we helped BTR membership approval that the Cheating Evidence of Bingo Vega Came out. As outlined earlier, in this thread, I worked with BTR Management to resolve the issue. It went so far than they started to stonewall me. Because of the seriousness of this past behavior, of Bingo Vega, I asked Steven for help. I knew if they wanted to stay in GPWA that would have to deal with him.

They did take responsibility of using Bot accounts to cheat players, but reminded Steven all that was in the past and not happening anymore. They themselves offered as a solution, to audit their historical logs to identify which games their bots played in and won, along with the names of the players that were cheated in that particular game. Their plan was to somehow reimburse the players for what the bots cheated them out of. All this is supported in Emails I received from Steven.
On March 27, 2012 I received the following update:

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Hi Richard,
I wanted to give you an update about Bingo Vega. They have been cooperative in my requests so far.

One of my MAJOR concerns whenever there is a problem reported is that the reports do not always show the full scope of the issue. There is always a possibility that the problems are deeper than is proveable or publicly known. Because of this, one of the important tests of cooperation is whether the operator is willing to research the issue beyond the specific cases that have been reported.

Bingo Vega has been doing this. They are in the final stages of going through their logs to identify the historical prop accounts. I was worried that they'd only want to address the accounts that were already identified, or that that wouldn't have appropriate backups from years ago, but neither of these worries was correct. They agreed to this (most people don't agree to provide evidence against themselves that isn't already available unless they actually mean to correct problems, so this is actually a really positive sign in my view). In addition to agreeing to do this, they've put in quite a bit of work into it. The relevant archival information is all on backups that take more work to access than the active data, but they've been able to gather information from these backups as well.

Just wanted to keep you in the loop.
Yours,
Steven

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We went from BTR Top Management, saying they were in the final stages of righting this issue with their players to this: 6 months later:

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Hi Richard,
One of my upper-level contacts left and now working with one of the affiliate managers, who is following up with management. I'm working on getting the direct contact back in place to speed things up.
Yours,
Steven

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That is the last time Steven updated me. I tried to email, PM and Skype him, but never received a reply. That last email from him seems to say he was back at square one and they never delivered what they promised. From the beginning, Steven told me their continued membership in GPWA all depended on them keeping their word and coming up with a solution of their historical mess. They started on that path, but never fully followed through.

In the end! I think Steven was frustrated with the whole issue, but at the same time, his life was going to take a new direction. BTR never lived up to their original agreement with Steven. Based on that alone, BTR membership should have been terminated long ago.

Now we are at the present and I have posted new information on why BTR need to be dropped. I have been updated with insider information that Mike Yates, his Father John and others, not only own, but control and operate BTR!! Please dispute this if you can!

My trusted inside sources also stated that The Yates Family used investor funds to purchase, BigTime Bingo, Online Bingo, Palace Bingo and BigTime Revenue. The Yates Family than took control of the back end of these sites and blocked access to the investors. The Yates Family now controls all the funding for these sites. It should be noted that the investors are fighting back and trying to gain control over what is rightfully theirs, but they are dealing with off shore jurisdictions and the process is slow.
This whole thing seems to boil down to who is more creditable here, myself or the GPWA! I can’t really question the integrity of GPWA, as to how they reached their conclusions on BTR, because other than BPU, they have no real source of what is going on in the Online Bingo Community. We have been involved with Bingo Players, Bingo Sites and Bingo Operators for about 10 years now. We have extensive knowledge of what goes on in this Industry and try our best to stay on top.

There are affiliates out there that are not our friends and wish we would disappear because we have exposed many bingo sites for cheating their players and over the years have called out a few big affiliates for sending players to sites we know cheat players. Sadly! There are some out there that don’t care if they are referring players, from their portals, to Bingo Sites that will cheat them. Too many! It’s all about the Money and not what is right.
We came to GPWA as a friend! It was hoped out expertise, could help them make a difficult decision. If our word is to be disregarded, I don’t know why we are here.

Finally!

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Richard did send me a player complaint and payment issue. I have asked for additional information in order to assist. After I receive the additional information I can report on that.

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We have come across new complaints! But in our original agreement with BTR they stated they would be on top of player issues and take care of them as they happened. It’s not my job for you to handle complaints, as I find them! You should be taking care of business, but it’s clear you are not.

It is sad to me, that we have problems getting support from those who ARE in a position to bring cheating sites to their knees. When one site cheats a player, I wonder how many players think "no more for me... ALL online bingo sites will cheat us"? I realize the need to make money if you are involved in this online gambling business, but, where should we draw the line?

My conscience would not let me knowingly support any site who would cheat its players... period!! This is one of the main reasons I volunteer at BPU. It is obvious from past experience that most affiliates do not think of the player (who is their very bread and butter) when they fly banners of sites that have been proven to cheat the players who use their link!

We (BPU) have been shunned by most of the online gaming community and thought of as idiots. That we may be, but we have been instrumental in helping players receive over $600,000.00 in monies owed to them that they could not collect on their own. NO!! I am NOT tooting my horn, I am simply supplying information that might open a deaf ear on how much we do care about these players, as everyone in this industry should. We rock boats and overstep bounds.. all for one reason ... safe & honest play for players

Neither Richard or I pay to gamble online any longer because of the experiences we have had, information we have gathered and for myself, as a chat host with access to the "back end". I am here to tell you, the online gaming folks lost a chunk of change when I stopped. There has to be a place to start!! There must be someone who can hold these frauds and cheats accountable for what they do. Do this in a way that would set an example for the next one who thinks they can rob people with no repercussions..

Most of you all are more into the casino part of OLG (online gaming), but we specialize in Bingo... which is also a considerable money maker. I do hope that GPWA members will pay enough attention to this problem presented about Big Time Revenue to fully understand what it is we are working toward. That would be FAIR PLAY for players where there are no legal grounds to bring cheaters to justice.

So far, all we have is empty promises. I remember how excited I was when BPU was accepted here :)

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Originally Posted by Sissy

It is sad to me, that we have problems getting support from those who ARE in a position to bring cheating sites to their knees. When one site cheats a player, I wonder how many players think "no more for me... ALL online bingo sites will cheat us"? I realize the need to make money if you are involved in this online gambling business, but, where should we draw the line?

My conscience would not let me knowingly support any site who would cheat its players... period!! This is one of the main reasons I volunteer at BPU. It is obvious from past experience that most affiliates do not think of the player (who is their very bread and butter) when they fly banners of sites that have been proven to cheat the players who use their link!

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For some, money and sponsorship absolves the conscience.
#pathetic

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Originally Posted by Sissy

We (BPU) have been shunned by most of the online gaming community and thought of as idiots. That we may be, but we have been instrumental in helping players receive over $600,000.00 in monies owed to them that they could not collect on their own. NO!! I am NOT tooting my horn, I am simply supplying information that might open a deaf ear on how much we do care about these players, as everyone in this industry should. We rock boats and overstep bounds.. all for one reason ... safe & honest play for players

Neither Richard or I pay to gamble online any longer because of the experiences we have had, information we have gathered and for myself, as a chat host with access to the "back end". I am here to tell you, the online gaming folks lost a chunk of change when I stopped. There has to be a place to start!! There must be someone who can hold these frauds and cheats accountable for what they do. Do this in a way that would set an example for the next one who thinks they can rob people with no repercussions..

Most of you all are more into the casino part of OLG (online gaming), but we specialize in Bingo... which is also a considerable money maker. I do hope that GPWA members will pay enough attention to this problem presented about Big Time Revenue to fully understand what it is we are working toward. That would be FAIR PLAY for players where there are no legal grounds to bring cheaters to justice.

So far, all we have is empty promises. I remember how excited I was when BPU was accepted here

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It is an uphill battle, but keep on fighting the good fight. There are some who will have your back - but there are always going to be those will (sadly) either turn a blind eye and not get involved, or will openly argue against you position and proof in order to preserve their revenue stream.

I personally appreciate what you do for the industry.

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They are in the final stages of going through their logs to identify the historical prop accounts. I was worried that they'd only want to address the accounts that were already identified, or that that wouldn't have appropriate backups from years ago, but neither of these worries was correct. They agreed to this (most people don't agree to provide evidence against themselves that isn't already available unless they actually mean to correct problems, so this is actually a really positive sign in my view). In addition to agreeing to do this, they've put in quite a bit of work into it. The relevant archival information is all on backups that take more work to access than the active data, but they've been able to gather information from these backups as well.

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When is GPWA going to reply to this? This is the Reason Bingo Players Union took a back seat on this issue for over 2 years. We were assured by GPWA that the Bingo Vega historical issue would be resolved if we gave them the time. The time was given, but the GPWA fell way short of their word!

While I am out tarnishing precious metals, a post here might be well placed... by GPWA, that is.

I have reviewed all of Steven's correspondence and the research that was done to identify accounts and compensate players. From those emails, I can tell there were calls between Steven and ownership. I am currently tracking down what the conclusion of those talks were.

I know Steven to be a very honorable, ethical person. I know, if he felt BTR was cheating players on his watch he would not have kept them here.

Richard, Sissy, we are on the same side here. We all want players and affiliates protected. We all have fought to recover funds for people that were cheated. I will post when I have some information.

Steven indicated to me that he would judge the honesty of this program by whether or not they kept their word on resolving the historical cheating issue. I took that to mean, that unless they followed through on their promise to complete their audit, on using bots, their membership would be canceled. This is the area you need to focus your attention on.

It's clear to me that the negotiations Steven had with BTR stalled, and because Steven was no longer here, no one paid any attention to this issue. It's clear that they went back on their word to Steven.

I do appreciate the effort Anthony has put into this review, but I don't think he has all the information to come to any real conclusion as to what really transpired here. Steven and I put a lot of hours in on this investigation and were on the same page. Perhaps some of the information was somehow lost.

My position on this will not change because I have the emails and chat logs to back up what really went on with this issue.

I have access to all of Steven's files and emails, plus the information you sent me and I have had several communications with BTR. What information do you feel I am still missing Richard? I would appreciate any additional information you feel is needed.

To update, I have reached out to Steven to get him to confirm the information I received today from BTR. I don’t want to say something is clear to me without having the facts and taking the time to review and verify them.