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  1. #21
    buyonaut's Avatar
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    Nothing wrong with MB guys! They are just using their market position to improve their business. I use them and follow their work for years and only thing I can say is that they are improving; service to customers and merchants alike!

    It is great e-wallet system widely used by European players, please note another thing; it is the most safe system to transfer money to and from gambling sites; instead swiping your CC card on 1000 places, you do it at single spot. Your CC details change; you do it at single spot. Easy, right?

    Commissions for transactions are acceptable and fair. Bank transfers work fast and without any hassle. CC details well protected. You can even hide some money from tax man. What more do you need?

    Somebody mentioned Paypal? What TF is Paypal? Damn worst ewallet on the market! Not accepting half of the worlds countries, millions of pointless checks and verifications, refusing cards.... Maybe works for US but def not for Europeans!

    And yes, Gooner is right; MB started as a child of Gamebookers, these people (I think they are German) realized long time ago that without easy ewallet system that is accepting almost everyone, no good business can be done. Few years back, Europeans could not get CC just like that, as opposed to US where even homeless person (no offense here) can get not one, but few. US citizens flashed 20 CC's from their valets years back while European person had to bring in 5 thousand papers to the bank before getting one.
    So, these smart people sold their well established gambling business and went into e-banking. Of course, they have kept their gambling contacts book with them and used those contacts to expand the business! That is bad? Stupid? Unfair? Common people, think business....

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  3. #22
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    Thumbs up we are not worried - we have a competitive advantage

    As an operator I think this is fine. The reasons I think it is fine are:

    1- They aren't spamming you. SPAM is unsolicited commercial email. This is not unsolicited. If you read the terms you agreed to, you would know that you accepted receiving promos from them.

    2- They provide a valuable service to the gaming community. If you are in the US, you will know how well deserved e-wallet companies earn their money. Who wouldn't want Neteller/MoneyBookers back into the US market?

    3- It was done tastefully. They hardly ever send out promotional emails and when they do, they are clear and provide good unique bonuses of interest to their readers.

    4- To say that they are 'stealing' players is a stretch at best. If a player signs up to your newsletter you can email them. If a player signs up their newsletter, they can email them.

    Now, I will say something about your point of our customers leaving us. Do we want our customers to go to other places? Of course not.

    But we aren't going to pretend that our customers are going to stay with us for lack of knowing other places. Players know other places exist. So why will they stay with us? Because we know how to gain a competitive advantage through service, promotions and other strategical conversion and retention methods.

    We know our players know other places exist, but we know our players know those other places won't give them the same warm fuzzy feeling they get here at Vegas Regal Casino. What we do to ensure that fuzzy feeling, is our secret sauce, and the thing that lets us rest at ease when seeing these mailers.
    Kind Regards,
    Nicolas Johnson
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  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Magenti View Post
    I do not consider one email spam and yes I received it as well.

    This is a smart move by moneybookers except for the fact that they work with affiliates ununited.
    one or more does not mater spam is spam if you are spammed one or 10 times makes no difference, meaning of the spam is unwanted message and also not related message, is financial so related to gaming?

  5. #24
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    Being an affiliate or not is irrelevant.
    He's got that part right but I'm not sure about the rest.

    Affs don't get a lot of love from any direction meaning that it is unlikely players would boycott a casino because it was found to be unethical to an aff.

    Yet affs by nature of our jobs if nothing else, would boycott a casino if it mistreats a player.

    so perhaps that is why it is relevant, if the issue is about mistreatment of an aff, then it is sorta relevant in that if its not another aff reading about it, they're not likely going to step up for the offended party, whether they had right on their side or not.

    Or that's how i took it that he might have meant things.

    .......

    anyway I think what is missed here is the most compelling part of the puzzle which I"ll be back with in a bit because I've got to take the dog out ... so no time to write it now.
    Almost Here! How would you like to be able to get not just one sign up from your player, or even a couple, but every single casino they join from here on? I've a plan that can make that happen and it will likely also tell you every time the player is active within the casino.

    Gambling Affiliate Place
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    avoid non paying casinos

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  7. #25
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    I can understand being upset about this.

    Caruso's right in that we must think of the player's needs first but it is also just as correct to say that had we known that MB was going to compete against us by using not just a page which lists the many merchants which use their service (that i think is expected) but to actively mail the very people we sent them in the understanding they were there to provide a financial service and at which time I remind, they never presented themselves as being so .... ambitious, shall we say?

    Therefore yes, I'd recommend them when they were the best bet for players but in same breath, any time there was some other option that DID NOT take such an ambitious approach was available, .... yes, I'd be sending them to the other place and so would most logical business-minded folks.

    So in my mind they are dancing all over the line if not having stepped across, when they do such things as email players.

    I feel anything more than providing a page listing the merchants they provide services to is going too far. Would be different if I knew ahead of time and had expected them to spam players.

    And what NETeller did, that was just wrong. Not only spamming players but then enticing them with an added financial bonus which if they are sending players via aff links, then they are basically spending money to muddy the waters of the places that worked very hard to get their waters clean, meaning these places trusted their very best of players to an entity which sold them out.

    It is despicable that NETeller basically spent that 5% to "re-arrange" the player base which was already there ... only to a side where they get 35% of the money once earned by legit affs or the casinos thru legit advertising means.

    I am surprised I never heard about this before now.

    Well that's how I see it.

    If I had known the deal ahead of time, I would not have taken it.

    I know I learned a lot today. Not sure what to do with it though since if all else were the same, my boycotting a "neteller" would be like being a fisherman and boycotting a certain sea because I didn't like the sea. It would be foolish to boycott it until such time it was no longer good fishing for whatever reasons, be they self-imposed or otherwise.
    Almost Here! How would you like to be able to get not just one sign up from your player, or even a couple, but every single casino they join from here on? I've a plan that can make that happen and it will likely also tell you every time the player is active within the casino.

    Gambling Affiliate Place
    Slot Machine Games
    Casinos Accepting USA Players
    Real Time Gaming Slots
    slots tip
    avoid non paying casinos

  8. #26
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    Having followed money bookers around for six years I can only conclude they are dirt. I will forever remain convinced. I don’t really care how, what, or why they started the account I once held I closed.

    I signed up with money bookers to use a web wallet not so I could receive truckloads of spam. Oh yes money bookers are all about security, big advocates against money laundering. They project an image of royalty, the best of the best. Ironic this same web wallet breaks many International Laws regarding spam email.

    They are the worst of the worst IMO. If you enjoy being screwed over in many different directions money bookers is for you. Spam email is but one issue on their dinner table.

    I would never recommend MB to players, affiliates, friends or family members. I will not provide MB with cross promoting leads.

    JMO

    greek39
    Last edited by pgaming; 9 March 2010 at 10:42 am. Reason: add to post

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  10. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by buyonaut View Post
    It is great e-wallet system
    Until anyone other than a UK citizen tries to get money stolen from a hacked account back.

    Then unless your a UK citizen, your own your own. MB pull up the hatches and do sweet FA to help.

    You might find this thread at CasinoMeister helpful in gauging other people's views on MB.

    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...kers-hack.html


    Cheers



    Dave
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    Do the right thing, even when no one is looking. It's called integrity.
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    It's your right to be treated honestly: fairness for all igaming affiliates - doch.news

  11. #28
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    I'm amazed more people aren't offended by the NETeller (which I was unaware until now) and now the MB actively seeking to do just what i pointed out.

    To me I never dreamed of this being an issue. Aside from my thinking that the casinos would see the unfair situations which could arise and therefore have some kind of agreement with these eWallets to not do exactly what Neteller did.

    My I am so amazed this doesn't strike anybody as wrong besides myself. Especially the casinos though I can also see how it might be they are afraid to say something.

    And yes its not stealing in the same sense of the word as shoplifting but at the end of the day in my mind what NETeller did was much worse.

    That must have been quite a day for NETeller. I don't know how successful their campaign was but you have to figure since they are the people's banking institute that a fair portion of them will auto-trust what the eWallet brings to the table, at least until they have reason to think different.

    So what we did is work that hard to land those players only to lay them down in front of an entity with built-in credibility and a whole lot of opportunity to (what word should I enter here? Perhaps the phrase) ease our players away from us and get them signed up at a similar casino, perhaps even a sister casino (then in that case the casino trades us for NETeller, still a bad trade for any casino that had plans of shaving for the future because NETeller will catch that quick enough: but it won't happen. None of the casinos, even the shadiest, will know better than to mess with the money-in-between.

    I don't know what amazes more : the fact that I am in the minority with my opinion over this, or the fact this is the first I have heard of it.

    Did you all know about this and were okay with it huh?

    Perhaps I am so shocked because I just never thought of the eWallets turning around and doing this for the same reason my local bank doesn't advertise in its window "hey tomorrow come eat at cafe1".

    They know that when cafe2 comes in to drop off that day's take, they wouldn't be finding it too wonderful to see that ad in the window. Yes they will at times advertise, but never would they get involved advertising to the customers of their banking institution in such manner and I don't really see a difference.

    I feel like I came to drop off and saw my competition's ad in the window.

    ya okay I will admit it isn't stealing by letter of the law but I still feel like you would if it was you that owned cafe1 and you saw that ad in the bank window. There's just something wrong with it.
    Almost Here! How would you like to be able to get not just one sign up from your player, or even a couple, but every single casino they join from here on? I've a plan that can make that happen and it will likely also tell you every time the player is active within the casino.

    Gambling Affiliate Place
    Slot Machine Games
    Casinos Accepting USA Players
    Real Time Gaming Slots
    slots tip
    avoid non paying casinos

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