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  1. #1
    brean78's Avatar
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    Angry My Betfred Experience: Others Should Learn From This

    I can't believe this is happening to me, but here goes. Hopefully others will learn from this or just avoid this program altogether. Here is a timeline of my issues

    Jan 2010
    Some new players in my Betfred account, plus the return of a highroller meant that there is some money in my Betfred affiliate account.

    Feb 2010

    Not heard anything from Betfred and the cashier still reads $0. Assume that is not available yet so wait a while. By the 18th I email the affiliate program, with no idea who is in charge, and ask what is going on.

    Am told that my email address is wrong and that I never got the communications. All of which is complete rubbish. I inform the rep that the cashier was never open at any time during the month. Am told I have to wait until next month.

    March 2010

    Cashier is working, so I go to cash out. Didn't realise that Betfred had stopped doing Bank Draught, even though the option is still available in the affiliate account.

    No communication again, so email to ask what is going on. Get told I have selected Bank Draught, which is no longer available. I have to wait another month before I can put it right.

    Conclusion
    Time to reflect on what is important to me and my business; Cashflow is probably the main thing. Therefore I need to make sure that the partners I work with have everything in order and are not going to leave me hanging.

    I hope others that are promoting/thinking of promoting Betfred's take notice of this, as you may experience similar problems
    Last edited by CityGuard; 18 March 2010 at 9:39 am. Reason: fixed typo, changing Jan 2009 to Jan 2010

  2. #2
    slotplayer is offline Private Member
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    not too mention that recruiting sub-affiliates requires manual mapping under your account. The links don't credit it automatically like most programs.

  3. #3
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    This is really REALLY sad.

    In the past there "used" to be management there that not only knew how programs were supposed to run, if something did come up that needed handled or fixed, they took care of it....

    Those managers have now moved on to other programs and are still available on a regular basis handling the brands they represent.

    Due to the really poor support (and the total mismanagement of the sub-affiliate program) they barely get even a mention here and there on my network.....

    Rick
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  4. #4
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    I removed them from all my pages sometime last year and haven't missed them in the slightest.
    Terry - The Pokerkeep
    President / CEO - Gambling Affiliates Union

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  5. #5
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    Same here, removed them a while back also and not been missed.
    Arthritis Care

    To find true bravery and courage all one need do is look in to the eyes of a sick child - A humble parent

  6. #6
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    Hey Brean

    I assume you meant Jan 2010 as the start of the issues not 09? (09 wouldnt surprise me though lol)

    As someone who has spent 7 years working for Betfred I feel I am in a position to comment on this.

    Betfred's problem is a VERY simple to identify - they (managment) make bad decisions over and over again and don't learn from them.

    Since affiliates were taken to Gib [c.2007/08] I have lost count of the number of affiliate team members there have been. Some good and some not so good, top and bottom of it is that Betfred don't give the aff team the tools to do their job (though I understand a new aff system is on its way) but get rid of them when they don't double aquisitions within 3 months. This invariably leads to lack of communication with affiliates and basic mistakes being made becuase people are always learning, as soon as they learn the processes, they are moved along for poor performance (or driven out because they are unwilling to put up with the substandard systems)

    Obviously being paid on time is number 1 priority for most affliates and this not happening isnt good enough. Sadly they are bound by stupid rules i.e. if a payment isnt made to an affiliate with the rest of the affiliates then they do have to wait until the next month, it isnt as simple as just processing a one off payment.

    I just wanted to give you a tiny bit of background before inevitably a whole host of negative posts appear. Though I can 100% understand your frustrations.

    PS. dont take this as me being pro/against you or Betfred, merely my opinion based on my employment there.
    Dean Leyland
    Affiliate Marketing Manager @ Sky Betting & Gaming

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  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dean_Leyland View Post
    Hey Brean

    I assume you meant Jan 2010 as the start of the issues not 09? (09 wouldnt surprise me though lol)

    As someone who has spent 7 years working for Betfred I feel I am in a position to comment on this.

    Betfred's problem is a VERY simple to identify - they (managment) make bad decisions over and over again and don't learn from them.

    Since affiliates were taken to Gib [c.2007/08]I have lost count of the number of affiliate team members there have been. Some good and some not so good, top and bottom of it is that Betfred don't give the aff team the tools to do their job (though I understand a new aff system is on its way) but get rid of them when they don't double aquisitions within 3 months. This invariably leads to lack of communication with affiliates and basic mistakes being made becuase people are always learning, as soon as they learn the processes, they moved along for poor performance (or driven out because they are unwilling to put up with the substandard systems)

    Obviously being paid on time is number 1 priority for most affliates and this not happening isnt good enough. Sadly they are bound by stupid rules i.e. if a payment isnt made to an affiliate with the rest of the affiliates then they do have to wait until the next month, it isnt as simple as just processing a one off payment.

    I just wanted to give you a tiny bit of background before inevitably a whole host of negative posts appear. Though I can 100% understand your frustrations.

    PS. dont take this as me being pro/against you or Betfred, merely my opinion based on my employment there.
    Dean has said it the way i wanted to say it actually but decided not to

    Now Dean can you respond to my PM please, would be appreciated
    Arthritis Care

    To find true bravery and courage all one need do is look in to the eyes of a sick child - A humble parent

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    Yes, typo '2009', should read 2010.

    Dean, You have pretty much confirmed what I imagined to be the case. The affiliate manager who responded to me was hugely apologetic for the situation that had occurred and I can safely assume her hands are tied.

    I personally don't mind the affiliate system, there is more information in there than many others. The retention of the casino isn't too bad either. But the whole management of affiliates is bizarre. It is no wonder so many affiliates are removing Fred's from their sites.

    Anyway, I feel like we are discussing something that will never change, as the chances of a Fred's representative responding is unlikely and the chances of a member of the management even reading these comments is quite possibly nil.

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    Deanboy from the Tote's post is frightening.

    Who runs Betfred online is a mystery too.

    Pumping your own aff staff out the door every quarter won't solve out much atall.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by brean78 View Post
    Conclusion
    Time to reflect on what is important to me and my business; Cashflow is probably the main thing. Therefore I need to make sure that the partners I work with have everything in order and are not going to leave me hanging.
    That's why I only work with a handful of trusted programs.

    IMO building a strong business relationship with programs that are stable and have history is an important foundation.

    Besides I've never liked the idea of requesting a payment. We work hard enough to get players signed up, the least we should do is get paid on time, every time without jumping hoops.



    Cheers



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    Quote Originally Posted by brean78 View Post
    Conclusion
    Time to reflect on what is important to me and my business; Cashflow is probably the main thing. Therefore I need to make sure that the partners I work with have everything in order and are not going to leave me hanging.
    That's why I only work with a handful of trusted programs.

    IMO building a strong business relationship with programs that are stable and have a positive affiliate history is an important foundation. If a program has a revolving door of aff managers, then it's likely there are issues.

    Of course the casino these programs represent must pay their players and conduct their operations in a respectable manner too.

    Besides I've never liked the idea of requesting a payment. We work hard enough to get players signed up, the least we should do is get paid on time, every time without jumping hoops.



    Cheers



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    It is disturbing to read these posts about Betfred because I have always thought they were a reputable program.
    I am beginning to wonder who is reputable these days!!!
    I don't have them up on too many of my sites, but have managed to obtain a few regular players there and am currently owed $78.85 for Jan earnings and $720.74 for Feb. I also have earnings of $430.00 for March so far. Granted not much money, but I have not been paid as they have not made these amounts available in the cashier section. I have no clue who to contact either.
    I pulled their white label Manchester Casino about a year ago, simply because their links never worked and I read some adverse stuff about them in the forums. It looks like it is getting time to remove the betfred links too...

  14. #13
    slotplayer is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by topboss View Post
    It is disturbing to read these posts about Betfred because I have always thought they were a reputable program.
    I am beginning to wonder who is reputable these days!!!
    I don't have them up on too many of my sites, but have managed to obtain a few regular players there and am currently owed $78.85 for Jan earnings and $720.74 for Feb. I also have earnings of $430.00 for March so far. Granted not much money, but I have not been paid as they have not made these amounts available in the cashier section. I have no clue who to contact either.
    I pulled their white label Manchester Casino about a year ago, simply because their links never worked and I read some adverse stuff about them in the forums. It looks like it is getting time to remove the betfred links too...
    here you go,

    Deborah Blood
    Betfred Affiliates

    affiliates at betfred.com

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  16. #14
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    In all fairness to Betfred my reasons for pulling them were not based on trust or on them having any record of ripping either players or affiliates off.

    As far as i know they can be trusted.

    My reasons had a lot to do with what Dean said and behind the scenes issues as well as my frustrations with their back end at the time, may well be a different backend for all i know now, may go and see as i do still have an account with them.

    I have a very high level of patience but once that has been exhausted i am done with a program and communication and high staff turn over at Betfred in the past really got to me.

    But i want to go on record as saying that if anyone wants to promote Betfred or is promoting Betfred they are (based on my own experience which is outdated i admit) 100% straight forward and legitimate.

    Chasing payment is not good at all but i get that crap even with some of the best known and trusted brands.

    So just to be sure and that there is no misunderstanding as far as i am aware Betfred are a respected and trustworthy sportsbook,

    Just wish they would sort out their back office because given the right circumstances i would promote them again.
    Arthritis Care

    To find true bravery and courage all one need do is look in to the eyes of a sick child - A humble parent

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  18. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betpartners View Post
    My reasons had a lot to do with what Dean said and behind the scenes issues as well as my frustrations with their back end at the time, may well be a different backend for all i know now, may go and see as i do still have an account with them.
    I believe it is the same system as you may have had before. The sports book and the casino/poker/bingo are seperate. I am not sure about the sportsbook, but the casino/poker/bingo aff management system is some sort of playtech type software that is dated, but at least updates in real time and gives details about players wagering.

    Quote Originally Posted by Betpartners View Post
    So just to be sure and that there is no misunderstanding as far as i am aware Betfred are a respected and trustworthy sportsbook,

    Just wish they would sort out their back office because given the right circumstances I would promote them again.
    Whole heartedly agree, as the brand is reasonably well known and the program does seem to convert ok. The aforementioned affiliate manager has at least answered my emails and apologised for the fiasco, but I get the impression she is fighting fires rather than getting a chance to improve the program and promote it better. Which is probably the same frustration felt by previous affiliate managers at Fred's.

    The only thing that can be done is to hit these managers where it hurts, in the pocket. If they have half a brain they will work out why no one is promoting them anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Betpartners View Post
    As far as i know they can be trusted.
    That was my impression betting in London.

    Online, the anecdotal evidence I've read from Northerners who punted there over the years, find thier reputation as a trustworthy on the level bookie to be questionable. When betting small up North lately, I had no problems atall. But the bonus king rep is self made hype, with no bearing on reality compared with the big 4, or Paddypower for example, onland, or online. Spin.

    The selling on of the online arm to an unknown party, unecissary player complaints re bonus abuse accusations I recall seeing arise, albeit resolved later I believe, added to these aff worries, has me wondering if they can be trusted enough for affs, me, to genuinely tout as a good brand. I agree they once were arguably right up there with the few trusted names.

    Frankly, selling the online arm is most worrisome. If the aff arm is independent too, which I don't know is the case, it's again worrisome.

  20. #17
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    Hi Everyone

    For those who may not have heard, BetFred is in the process of transferring their entire program to a new Income Access powered affiliate backend. This will allow all the products to be managed from a single admin center, with the numerous advantages that the IA affiliate software provides for affiliates and the aff management team, including our high quality reporting and payment processing system that will allow you to easily see when you have a payment due, and make tracking any missing payments significantly more straight forward.

    We will also be working with them on managing the program moving forward, so you can expect a high level of affiliate service and quick response to any affiliate issues, regarding payments or otherwise. If there's anything I can help with, you can send me a PM or email me at louis@incomeaccess.com and I will be glad to get the ball rolling.

    As you can imagine, this changeover is quite a large undertaking, so the process may not be complete for several weeks. In the mean time, please be patient and know that we are doing everything we can to get the new program running smoothly as quickly as possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Louis - Income Access View Post
    For those who may not have heard, BetFred is in the process of transferring their entire program to a new Income Access powered affiliate backend.
    Hi Louis - is there anyone who will have heard this news? Betfred certainly have not shared this with their affiliates. Hopefully this will enable Betfred to raise their game with affiliates.

    Having said that - I've worked with Betfred for about 7 years now - and while I have noticed a regular turnover of staff - all of them have been quite good - and responded to emails on time - and paid on time (after I requested payment).

    Most importantly - during those seven years - we've had ZERO customer complaints from players there - either from the sports or casino side. Betfred may not be quite top tier like Ladbrokes or PaddyPower, but they are still a good destination for UK players.

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  23. #19
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    I agree that although there have been a few times when I thought things could work better there they have always been a pleasure to work with.

    I hope there are not migration issues that we see so often when programs do this, both mapping players over correctly as well as making suire that sub-affiliate downlines are protected, because if either of those two do not go smoothly then dropping the brand is often less costly then the time and effort to try and straighten it out.

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  24. #20
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    is there anyone who will have heard this news? Betfred certainly have not shared this with their affiliates.
    I believe that this has been kept mostly under wraps as the transition is taking place, since time frames are still uncertain. However, migration of affiliates has already begun, so it's definitely not a secret. You can expect to receive communication about this in the near future.

    I hope there are not migration issues that we see so often when programs do this, both mapping players over correctly as well as making suire that sub-affiliate downlines are protected, because if either of those two do not go smoothly then dropping the brand is often less costly then the time and effort to try and straighten it out.
    Rick, that's a very good point, and a big part of why the integration is a slow and careful process for us.

    I want to say as clearly as possible that you can contact me with ANY issues you might have with the program moving forward, and I, and the other affiliate managers on the account, will work swiftly to resolve them. We're very proud to be working with BetFred and providing the best service possible to affiliates is a top priority.

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