View Poll Results: Is it OK to promote casinos that mix adult entertainment and gambling?

Voters
56. You may not vote on this poll
  • No GPWA member should promote a casino like playboycasino.com.

    11 19.64%
  • I wouldn't promote them, but don't think my views should be imposed on other webmasters.

    10 17.86%
  • I wouldn't promote them, but it is fine for other webmasters if they do it tastefully.

    15 26.79%
  • I don't promote them now, but think I might start.

    8 14.29%
  • My websites promote them already.

    11 19.64%
  • Not Sure

    1 1.79%
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  1. #21
    bb1web's Avatar
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    sex and sex appeal are two very separate topics
    well there's a quandary. I agree sex and sex appeal are two different things since one is an act and the other is and attraction.

    but that brings to question the whether or not?

    whether wearing sexy clothes and therefore looking sexy .... or being nude which obviously is also viewed (by most males anyway) as looking sexy .....

    or the act of sex ..... or the implication of a sexual act ... are the same category if you get my meaning?


    in other words ..... there's an old saying that leaving a little to the imagination is sexier than not ..... but its still a fallback on the fact that the opposite sex targeted .... is attracted by the picture or ad?

    and then there is the actual act of sex or implication of a sexual act which is IMHO a whole different level though same theme.

    using a pretty face .. or any kind of attraction based on the visualizing or content aimed at attracting attention via the basic animalistic reaction to the latter ..... is merely a matter of how far you're willing to cross the line into nudity.

    its still attracting attention based on sexual attraction. Whether he/she has clothes on or not .... is it still not the same basis of approach? sure it is. sex sells. no getting around it.

    this has been an advertising approach ...... and a very effective one .... for almost as long as there has been advertising. whether the person in the picture has clothing on.... or how much ...... really is IMHO hypocritical.

    if you're willing to use a pretty face to sell something ..... you're still using the same strategy as if you're willing to use a pair of breasts. Lol. its still the same approach just a matter of how far you're wiling to go .....

    its an interesting argument and I see and am empathetic to both sides. but to say that its okay for ad1 to have a big breasted woman showing cleavage but not okay to have ad2 to have same type situation where she's showing everything ..... well its still the same approach.

    disclaimer:
    Now keep in mind we're talking adult ads to adults. I of course would not condone any such thing to kids but on today's net .... and as Kaus pointed out .... even on the tv at 5am in the morning ..... they can see much more than what I'm comfortable with my kids seeing.


    personally you'll not find any such kind of ads on my sites simply because I want my visitors concentrating on gambling .... not getting excited and heading over to the porn instead of where I'm trying to send them and I think that is an important consideration for anyone who is thinking about using sex to sell casino gambling. of course .... they might come back after visiting the porn site ..... or they might find a casino ad on that porn site or go to a different casino portal. do you really want to take that chance?



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  2. #22
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    First of all, I don't think either the magazine or the casino are pornographic.

    Playboy is certainly not a sleezy outfit that forces women to pose in ways they don't want to. Everything is always tasteful, and there is many an excellent article in Playboy.

    It would be very stupid to build a casino around actual porn, I can't imagine a male being able to concentrate on blackjack strategy while... indulging in porn.

    There are more scantily dressed women on gambling websites than I care to see, but obviously someone likes it or they would not be there.

    But basically I don't see this as a porn issue, I see it as an issue of censorship.

    To me, the porn is besides the point.

    Imposing one's own values on others is wrong. If we start that, we should not at all be surprised if the politicians impose their own values re. gambling on us.

    I don't think it's possible to say that we can impose censorship, but they can't.

    Free will and choice are just that, and everyone can decide for themselves what they want to do.

  3. #23
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    bb1web: In the case of porn ..... I don't know the actual results of experiments but I would think it would allow for a means of release ...... so to speak ..... that might otherwise elevate into criminal offenses against women. That's just my guess and i may be completely wrong. I might change my views on this subject if I were to learn differently.
    This is actually true bb. I was office manager at the local cable co. for a number of years. I met with Playboy reps when we launched the playboy channel and this was one of their selling points. After we launched and I received the daily reports, I found that the pb channel was successful. When I met with the reps again, they asked me what I would like to see. From the feedback I got in the community the biggest complaint was that it was not geared to (most) women. They found it rather useless and annoying. For various reasons the company removed it.

    I had forgotten all about this and it was interesting to note. I'm not sure how it relates to gambling except for the women opinion factor.

  4. #24
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    Pornography is gambling? Pornography isn't related gambling at all.

  5. #25
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    I wouldn't promote them as I don't even use banners that have women in swimsuits. It's just my personal taste, not saying that others shouldn't promote these type of brands.

  6. #26
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    Hi all (M) and thank you for your reply.


    however I'm not sure how to take it

    does porn allow for a release that otherwise might be an offense against a real woman......

    or does it cause more offenses against real women?


    an important note that I personally would take into serious consideration in how I viewed porn.

    sorry for being so dim....... but i just want to make sure I have it right.
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  7. #27
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    Playboy owns Clubjenna..

    "tasteful"..?

    Righteo.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyl View Post
    Playboy owns Clubjenna..
    This is exactly the point I've been making...Thanks for adding that joeyl

    Although I applaud porn sites that display the ASAP logo & align themselves with their rules, it's just another reason why I feel casino's should not mix it with porn (soft or otherwise).

    For those that don't know...Jenna Jameson is a porn star...she's famous for more than soft porn, can you say "hardcore porn"?

    I could be wrong...But I've not seen any casino sites align themselves with associations that try to stamp out "child pornography"...It's just not part of the business.

    Whereas as the porn business, (like it or not) child porn is one of its darker sides.



    Cheers

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    Last edited by AussieDave; 9 June 2007 at 12:07 pm.
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  9. #29
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    I live in Germany. Here, nobody would associate the picture of a scantily dressed woman with porn. As long as a casino is not showing anything that suggests a sexual act, I have no problem in promoting it. We don't need to go back to the Victorian age.

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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by AussieDave View Post
    This is exactly the point I've been making...Thanks for adding that joeyl

    Although I applaud porn sites that display the ASAP logo & align themselves with their rules, it's just another reason why I feel casino's should not mix it with porn (soft or otherwise).

    For those that don't know...Jenna Jameson is a porn star...she's famous for more than soft porn, can you say "hardcore porn"?

    I could be wrong...But I've not seen any casino sites align themselves with associations that try to stamp out "child pornography"...It's just not part of the business.

    Whereas as the porn business, (like it or not) child porn is one of its darker sides.



    Cheers

    Dave
    I had never bothered to check. I thought the Playboy brand stuck to nudie mags and softcore.

    So yesterday when I saw this thread, I delved some more than I did when I saw the Meister thread and you being called idiotic and disrespectful.

    # Upon it's acquisition of CJI (club jenna inc), Playboy become one of the largest distributors of the most hardcore of hardcore porn available on the net today.

    The point is, if the gpwa want to make rules for "ethical webmastery", they should stick to those rules across the brand. If the Playboy brand promote hardcore porn via an offshoot like ClubJenna distributing through Vivid Entertainment Group, they are into hardcore porn. Unless "double anal drillings" does not count.

    All talk of whether one is for or against pornography are irrelevant. Pretty much so is the poll.

    No arguement. Case closed. One of the easier ones to solve out frankly.
    Last edited by joeyl; 10 June 2007 at 7:47 am.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyl View Post
    I had never bothered to check. I thought the Playboy brand stuck to nudie mags and softcore.
    You and me both...

    Quote Originally Posted by joeyl View Post
    So yesterday when I saw this thread, I delved some more than I did when I saw the Meister thread and you being called idiotic and disrespectful.
    To bring everyone up to speed & clarify the connection between myself & CM...

    The irony was after raising a BIG issue here about Meister promoting the Playboy brand (the thread had grown to around 2 - 3 pages), I'm informed by another GPWA member that CasinoCity was also promoting the PB brand.

    At that point I felt like and idiot & total moron...

    The CM zealots can say what they like about me...I did what needed to be done, did what any other ethical person would do. I had no alternative but to post a public apology at Meisters forum.


    Quote Originally Posted by joeyl View Post
    # Upon it's acquisition of CJI (club jenna inc), Playboy become one of the largest distributors of the most hardcore of hardcore porn available on the net today.
    The reason why I keep saying casino's and porn are not on the same road.

    Once you get into the porn taxi you could end up at HardcoreVille... While believing your still travelling down Buttercup Road to SoftcoreVille!

    Quote Originally Posted by joeyl View Post
    The point is, if the gpwa want to make rules for "ethical webmastery", they should stick to those rules across the brand. If the Playboy brand promote hardcore porn via an offshoot like ClubJenna distributing through Vivid Entertainment Group, they are into hardcore porn. Unless "double anal drillings" does not count.

    All talk of whether one is for or against pornography are irrelevant. Pretty much so is the poll.

    No arguement. Case closed. One of the easier ones to solve out frankly.
    joeyl makes a strong case, IMHO valid points based on facts



    Cheers



    Dave
    Last edited by AussieDave; 10 June 2007 at 7:04 pm.
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  12. #32
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    Hi all,

    i've done some research but frankly never came to a conclusion.

    perhaps someone here can answer the simple question I asked before:

    is porn (hardcore or otherwise) ..... a release for potential sex offenders

    or one that is likely to cause more offenses against women?

    maybe for some this isn't an issue but my main concern is that women are in a safer environment and if that means the ones getting paid (are obviosuly willing) to do porn acts ... which some might consider perverted or offensive ...... really means nothing to me.


    what i want is a safer world for the women. so can somebody answer with more than just opinion ..... is it making it safer for them ... or adding to the problem?


    thank you in advance for your reply.
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bb1web View Post
    what i want is a safer world for the women. so can somebody answer with more than just opinion ..... is it making it safer for them ... or adding to the problem?

    Hi All (BB),

    I'll see if I can find some stats from a professional body, University or something it that realm.


    Cheers



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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by bb1web View Post
    perhaps someone here can answer the simple question I asked before:

    is porn (hardcore or otherwise) ..... a release for potential sex offenders

    or one that is likely to cause more offenses against women?

    I think this is one of the central questions in debates about pornography, and imagine you will find arguments suggesting both outcomes.
    With a topic as socially divisive as porn, I expect that the tension between any cathartic effect and an effect of normalizing violence will not be so simply resolved as saying the result is one or the other.

    I don't know of solid research one way or another without looking further, but know several people who have studied gender, sexuality, or sexual violence in some depth. I'll ask around for research on the subject and post the information I receive, including the background of the people who provided the information.
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  15. #35
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    That is a conversation about pornography persay, and related issues too.

    What I am commenting on is Aussie Dave, the GPWA eithics rules, and whether the Playboy brand fits the profile. I am not privvy to the "private thread".

    Anyway: The GPWA/Casinocity have made up their mind about pornography, hence the issue of "pornography" and related issues is irrelevant.

    ie point 5: "Does not promote or display pornography".. The GPWA Seal of Approval Code For Portals.

    Let's have this right. If the GPWA find a webmaster promoting the Playboy operated Clubjenna produced hardcore films, they won't get the seal of approval - yes - no?

  16. #36
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    is porn (hardcore or otherwise) ..... a release for potential sex offenders

    or one that is likely to cause more offenses against women?
    Sorry I didn't elaborate on this futher bb. When the Playboy reps were meeting with us to add their channel to our cable list they did reference studies that porn does serve as a release for some. The suggestion was that it relieves sexual aggression. There were studies done but I don't recall where/when.

    However, they never claimed to treat sex offenders. Sex offenders are a whole different species and on a whole different level.

  17. #37
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    I think someone that saw or watched porn, then thinks it is OK to portray (act out) by committing a criminal act based on the porn they've watched, is well outside the constraints of what is acceptable behaviour.

    These type of personality defects are not the norm, so I agree with mojo. That,
    Quote Originally Posted by mojo View Post
    Sex offenders are a whole different species and on a whole different level.


    Cheers



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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by joeyl View Post
    What I am commenting on is Aussie Dave, the GPWA eithics rules, and whether the Playboy brand fits the profile. I am not privvy to the "private thread".

    Anyway: The GPWA/Casinocity have made up their mind about pornography, hence the issue of "pornography" and related issues is irrelevant.

    ie point 5: "Does not promote or display pornography".. The GPWA Seal of Approval Code For Portals.

    Let's have this right. If the GPWA find a webmaster promoting the Playboy operated Clubjenna produced hardcore films, they won't get the seal of approval - yes - no?
    First, I want to make sure everyone knows I've been away at GIGSE and now CAP Spring Break, and that along with other items I have needed to worry about has left me without the time to really be responsive to all of the items that have been brought up both here and in the private forums.

    However, I feel the issues raised are important, so even though I have not been able to participate the way I would like, I saw that the following things happened: 1) we featured the private forum thread on the topic in the GPWA newsletter to draw attention to the general issue to members, 2) I posted the poll that is the subject of this thread in the forums and made it the poll of the week last week to encourage further discussion of the matter, and 3) I had us take these actions while knowing that there was some controversy here and that I was facilitating further discussion at a time I new I could not participate in a way that some members might like and that the politics around that were not necessarily the best from my perspective. Certainly people have inappropriately drawing conclusions about what I think and what actions I might take as executive director based on the fact that I have not had time to participate much in these threads.

    Now, without having time to investigate or do any research on my own about some of the issues and relationships mentioned in this thread, I'll try my best to answer at least a couple of the questions raised here based on the practices that I understand have been followed for a long time (and before my involvement as Executive Director of the GPWA).

    Historically, as mentioned in the other thread by BigBCasinos, the GPWA code of conduct has prohibited the mixing of porn and gambling on the same site. It has not prohibited a GPWA webmaster from being involved in porn as long as it was not on a gambling portal site, and as long as gambling is not promoted from the site involved in porn. The GPWA code of conduct has also prohibited the promotion of porn on a gaming portal site. Thus, assuming clubjenna is a porn site (I have not looked at it) then a GPWA private member would be violating the GPWA code of conduct if the clubjenna site was promoted from a GPWA member gaming portal. That means if a GPWA member did so and did not fix the situation, their private membership would be revoked. And, of course, such a site would certainly not meet the criteria for being a GPWA approved portal site.

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  19. #39
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    Fair enough.

    It's a fair point Aussie Dave.

    Michael, one could ask "what's the point" in the non pornography stance thing atall then?

    One may note: The gambling industry would like to, including the gpwa maybe, not be seen as 1 step away from the porn industry (i could be wrong). However, it won't take Einstein to argue (successfuly imo) promoting "Playboy Casino" is 1 step removed from the porn industry.

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    hence the issue of "pornography" and related issues is irrelevant.
    I very much disagree. while I give you that you are right on the matter of gpwa .... that is not what concerns me.

    I respect women. I also am a realistic person that sees if someone whom might otherwise attack women ..... many find release in masturbation just watching this sort of thing on movies etc.

    I don't know the answer. I DO know I care and don't want to contribute to the offenses against women.

    thus the importance to me ...... and the reason I have not let this question die.

    I think it makes ALL the difference.
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