Is it OK to provide information about or to promote iGaming on Facebook?

[MichaelCorfman]

There have been a variety of posts in the private forums of the GPWA website on the merits of engaging in online gaming promotional activities in a social network environment. Such discussion has focused on the fact that children participate in social networks.

Advocates of such promotion have taken the position that social networks are used primarily by those that are not underage and that social networking environments offer safeguards that are greater than those available on the web as a whole, thus providing greater protection than is generally available to children using the web.

Those who express the deepest concern raise issues surrounding the significant number of underage participants in social networks and the fact that it is possible for children to circumvent the protections that are provided by creating accounts based on false information.

This week’s question asks your opinions about what is acceptable in the Facebook social network environment. In order to intelligently answer these questions, one needs to understand a little bit about the Facebook environment since the questions are about a presence for an iGaming portal site on facebook. Generally such a presence can take the form of either a Facebook fan page or a Facebook group.

Casino City is an example of a website that has a fan page on Facebook at the following URL: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Casino-City/7666953178. Fan pages can be available to all users on Facebook, or they can be restricted to facebook users that meet a specified age criteria such as being 18, being a least of drinking age in their geographic location, or being 21. The Casino City fan page currently is only visible to those who are of drinking age in their geographic location.

Another way of establishing a presence on Facebook is through the use of groups. For example, the GPWA has a group on Facebook at the following URL: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6784511126. Groups can be open groups that anyone can join, or closed or secret groups where some or all information about the group is hidden except to those who have been explicitly admitted as group members. The GPWA group on Facebook is an example of an open group.

With this background information, you should select one of the first seven viewpoints listed in the question as the one that most closely reflects your personal view. Then you should select as many of the following seven statements that reflect your personal view about what is OK on Facebook.

Questions can also be asked about legal issues and the desirability of providing links and publicity for actual online gaming sites, and also about offering gaming activities like Texas Holdem Poker on Facebook, and such questions have been asked in the private forums. I'd prefer if we can leave those issues aside in this poll and associated posts and stay focused on the question of promoting iGaming portal sites as it relates to the question of proper ethics with respect to those who are underage.

Michael

[TheGooner]

oops - first to vote - my choices are obvious

[Nandakishore]

I knew that it would be difficult and time-consuming to phrase the poll question. to Michael. But I wouldn't have thought that it would also need some real effort to choose the answers.

_______________________________

Nandakishore
Online Casino Newsroom
Facebook
APCW Interactive
Link exchange welcome. PM me.

[mojo]

I knew that it would be difficult and time-consuming to phrase the poll question. to Michael. But I wouldn't have thought that it would also need some real effort to choose the answers.

I agree Nan. Nice job with the poll Michael!

I am very interested to learn more before I can answer. My first reaction is that I don't want to put children in harms way. The best way for me to decide is to be educated first. I look forward to the feedback here.

[Doolally]

I agree an interesting poll.

Personally I have no hang-ups about providing gambling related info on there. It's on the net anyway so if someone, of any age, wants to find it, they will. It's up to the casino/poker room/etc to verify age details should a player try to deposit.

[Fintan]

Queue the South Park episode where the mother screams "Wont somebody please think of the children"

Seriously though, age restrictions before you can join a group make sense, however, any determined teenager will quickly circumvent that. Do a quick show of hands as to how many people had a beer before they reached the legal age

I believe there needs to be a balance between the actions any group take to verify the age of their members and parental supervision as to what their kids are doing on-line.

[Nandakishore]

I just read in a German newspaper that a study conducted by the Sheffield University, UK, has shown that the interest of teenagers in Internet usage is very limited, many don't even know how to handle a search engine, BUT, they use Myspace and Facebook regularly because of social networking possibilities. I was thinking, maybe GPWA should think of bringing in the iGaming portal, if it comes, a corner on Responsible Gambling. It should not be just lip-service, but something interesting and readable also for the teenagers. I don't think we can stop them from gambling if they want to. But if we are serious we may stop them from doing irresponsible gambling.

_______________________________

Nandakishore
Online Casino Newsroom
Facebook
APCW Interactive
Link exchange welcome. PM me.

[vinism]

Queue the South Park episode where the mother screams "Wont somebody please think of the children"

Seriously though, age restrictions before you can join a group make sense, however, any determined teenager will quickly circumvent that. Do a quick show of hands as to how many people had a beer before they reached the legal age

Consider this hand raised.

[TheGooner]

Do a quick show of hands as to how many people had a beer before they reached the legal age

Of course many people did - but that's not REALLY the same question - because a glass of beer or wine in the home with parental supervision is not illegal and usually results in a more mature approach to alcohol.

To be comparable to this situation your question should have been ...

"Hands up all those who were personally approached and pitched at to BUY beer while still underage."

Pitching gambling sites under recommendations and postings of "friends" is far more insidious than traditional mass-marketing - and that's probably why there is this discussion on this site.

[TheCPA]

Pitching gambling sites under recommendations and postings of "friends" is far more insidious than traditional mass-marketing - and that's probably why there is this discussion on this site.

I Agree.
We shouldn't be passing out flyers at our Local Elementary Schools during recess!

Furthermore, the child issue is only a single part of the problem.

The preamble to this poll, and the poll itself do not address the bigger picture as it was discussed in the private forums.

Additionally, this has been made a Public Poll, and the issue at hand is whether GPWA Webmasters should actively promote gambling on Social Networks that originate in the United States in the present climate.

I could go on to explain the fiasco at Second life, the actual terms and conditions published at Facebook, etc., etc., but it wouldn't do much good, IMO.
There is always a way to twist the intent, or facts to accomplish a goal.

I could post a Facebook Rep's response too, but it wouldn't matter the way this poll is structured to enlist a predefined result.

Besides, this should not be a Public poll in the first place.
Players are not Webmasters, and they haven't had the benefit of reading the Private Forum material, or discussing it either before voting,..... even if it mattered to them!!!!!

[GamTrak]

Under-aged teens are going to gamble, drink, hack, commit crimes and everything else if they are determined to do so.

Expecting the facebook, the gambling industry or anyone else to be the internet police is not realistic.

Kids and teens are not the ones buying the computers, software, video games, big screen tv's and other things, the parents are. The parents have to step up to the plate eventually. The things that kids "are allowed" to do these days is frightening.

When I was a teenager me and my six syblings managed to do many "illegal" and "harmful" things like drink beer, shoot craps for money, play bartender at holidays, smoke, drive the car with out permission and we survived and turned out pretty normal.

But seriously, does the fact that my business being in the igaming industry mean that I have to close the door to social networking to grow my business? I don't think so and I don't feel it's fair to put that responsiblity or guilt on those that choose to do so.

And while I'm on my rampage. LMAO

I don't think we should just bend over and allow the government to use facebook as another tool to ruin our business. I'm very happy that GPWA built the new application.

[bonustreak]

I seen some dating services on there that kids should not be seeing, I seen some pics some of these kids put on their facebook and it makes me wonder if there should be an age limit to even create and account for kids. It would be great if there was a place for these kids to go that is age appropiate but I know that is too much to ask for...lol It is a changing world that is for sure.

[mojo]

Expecting the facebook, the gambling industry or anyone else to be the internet police is not realistic.

Agreed GamTrak. I appriciate that. However, let me present this argument if I may. Since facebook attracts millions of kids, should gambling be a presence? In other words, do we see liquor stores or casinos within 100 miles of schools? In fact, if you are caught dealing drugs within a school limit your punishment is stiffer. This may be a silly analogy but it is what I am thinking. We are in essence presenting gambling as affiliates. Affiliates are the ones who will present gambling in this arena. Is it right? Affiliates alone must make this decision. It is something we should do with much care.

We are not police but we do have a responsablility. Affiliates have a lot of power here. I am weary of jumping in without speaking to other thoughtful affiliates.

Thank you for listening.

[GamTrak]

I can understand your concerns mojo as they are valid, but my point is that in a perfect world all of that would be great as well as possible.

I guess what I'm saying in a nutshell is that I'm not the type to let kids dictate how things run when it comes to my livelyhood or doing something that I truly enjoy. I don't want to be the role model or responsible for what curious teens decide to do on the internet.

The whole idea of social networking is to include everyone. Heck I had someone post, what I consider, porn images on my wall yesterday, but that does not mean that they should not be allowed to have a facebook account or responsible for some kid that turns into a sex fiend or whatever affect it has on them from seeing it right?

If tools are available and utilized by facebook to "control" teens then that is about all we can do.

[mojo]

Right now the only gambling application on facebook is the texas holdem poker. They can "buy" but they can't sell. So what do these brilliant folks do? They set it up on ebay so they can cash out! lol.

It took me awhile to figure this out and I still don't fully understand but I get the gist of it.

I guess what I'm saying in a nutshell is that I'm not the type to let kids dictate how things run when it comes to my livelyhood or doing something that I truly enjoy.

I really do understand that Robin! I am glad to have some real honest input on this so that I can express myself as well. I keep going back to the arena. Would we put gambling at disney world? Social Networks are kid orientated. Again, extreme but just trying to relay my argument.

Why can't we create a Social Network that is adults only? The current Social Networks (all of them) are for 13 and above. I would feel much better if it were not so.

[GamTrak]

I am glad to have some real honest input on this so that I can express myself as well. I keep going back to the arena.

Yep, I agree. In fact I only put my two cents in because I know that you are a fair person and would not take offense to my comments.

Would we put gambling at disney world?

Nope, but they can leave disney world and go next door to the grocery store and get food, beer and smokes.

Social Networks are kid orientated.

Really? I did not know that. Facebook was my first social networking site so I was not aware of that. Do you have a link for stats on that?

[mojo]

More than a quarter of children aged eight to 11 bypass online age restrictions to put reams of intensely personal detail about themselves online.

Just a random search.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...e_id=1770&ct=5

would not take offense to my comments.

Never!

I really value these kind of discussions.

It's late here so I'll look forward to more later.

[Fintan]

Of course many people did - but that's not REALLY the same question - because a glass of beer or wine in the home with parental supervision is not illegal and usually results in a more mature approach to alcohol.

To be comparable to this situation your question should have been ...

"Hands up all those who were personally approached and pitched at to BUY beer while still underage."

Pitching gambling sites under recommendations and postings of "friends" is far more insidious than traditional mass-marketing - and that's probably why there is this discussion on this site.

Sorry i should have clarified, an underage drink without there parents permission or knolwdge.

And I do agree, advertising to children is wrong and should never be done be it gambling, alcohol. fastfood, toys etc

Cheers

Fintan

[matted]

The problem with this type of poll or approach is it leaves into question who has the responsibility to ensure laws are appreciated. These are complicated social questions to which there doesn't appear to be a clear set of rules.

1. Is it the child's responsibility to not work around age restrictions?
2. Is it the parent's responsibility to monitor their childs actions?
3. Is it the gambling operation's responsibility to ensure no minor's are playing?

And if it is #3:
4. Should igaming be held responsible if any children work through the safeguards to prevent minors?
5. What safeguards should igaming follow to ensure minors are filtered out


It's frustrating with so much gray space... and the solution is clearly a hybrid of all options on the table.... and will vary country to country.

[Tony]

My question is, if a youngster would like to gamble do you really thing he needs to go to a social network to do it. All they have to do is Google it, and as you all know they can go to any Online Gambling site and gamble. I know you will tell me, is better if they don’t know about it, well I have news for they do, they even play poker in the school, my problem is why any parent thinks is ok for 15 year old to have a Visa or debit card