Problem gambling based demand to reinstate lost winnings of 75k

[DaftDog]

I feel that mark06 should be banned from this forum. He committed fraud and told numerous lies in an attempt to recoup his lost fortune.

I know of two other private members who were expelled from this forum for a lot less than that.

[Roulette Zeitung]

I am not religious, not a member of a church but very spiritually, show respect to all people of faith and believe that an almighty power must have had something to do with some things that happen.

Charity is a key element of our existence and nobody should kick a helpless man when he's down. If i see how the previous poster rejoice in the suffering of others, then it is not surprising that mankind has a bad reputation at all other living on planet Earth.

I can speak on behalf of my wife when i say, that it is for us a very sad day today, not because of us, because of the cowardly kicking a helpless man when he's down and, with that I also mean some other people, abusing him for its own purposes.

Leopold

[TheGooner]

Marko6 is desperately trying to regain some of the 75,000 winnings that he subsequently lost on fair games, because he has had some encouragement from people that it might be possible. I have noted that Marko6 demanding a return of the balance as at June (50K?), and then later demanding a return of his highest ever balance from sometime in mid-February (75K) as some sort of punitive fine on the casino.

Marko6 has been told by well meaning but inaccurate posters that he has some sort of claim on the funds that he lost gambling.

Marko6 will not stop until it has been explained that no matter what "sanctions" might be imposed on the casino .... there will be no return of lost funds in fair games. The two issues are not related outcomes.

There are two issues :
1/ Whether the casino should be sanctioned by the Licensing Authority or Playtech for their lax actions on accounts? Still undecided.
2/ Whether Marko6 was cheated out of his funds? He was limited to slots only - he played them willingly. They were fair.

Sanctioning the casino for account procedures (which may be justified) will NOT result in a punitive payout for Marko6 for some previous balance.

Players are entitled to 100% of their balance. I think all affiliates support that.

Marko6 won 110,000 Euros, lost some of that, was paid out some winnings and then lost the rest and now has a balance of ZERO. He is NOT a victim - he is ahead overall - but clearly has regrets about losing a significant proportion of his windfall with subsequent gambling.

Marko6 is not owed further money. His balance is ZERO.
This position is not "kicking a man when he is down" - it is stating a fact.

[Roulette Zeitung]

He is NOT a victim

At least he is a victim of gambling, and one can not overemphasize the importance of this, that was always the case: Feeling empathy is a gift that lives in the hearts of children. In later years, for a variety of reasons, sometimes it is lost and will not return. This applies for men and also for women.

As i wrote in the penultimate post, i am not a member of a church, but for me as a non-religious individual, the wisdom and spiritual power of a well known book inspires me over and over again.

Book of Ecclesiastes
4:10 For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow: but woe to him that is alone when he falleth; for he hath not another to help him up.

Everyone should know when it's enough, because silence may be golden, and after a certain point surely it is also a matter of character.

Leopold

[universal4]

I feel for him as a human being, and have empathy toward his situation but that does not necessairly mean I think he deserves a portion of his losses returned.

I really did feel that he had a good case in the beginning, and approached the situation with an open mind from the beginning but based upon the investigations of Anthony and Michael, I just can not take his side and have to agree with Gooner on his points for any returned funds.

There is likely some truth to the fact that he was a victim of his compulsive need to gamble when there were funds in his account, and it's too bad he did not mention his problem to the casino sooner when he still had a large portion of the funds there, but that is not what took place.


Rick
Universal4

[-Shay-]

Still waiting on Michael's report. That aside, my big question is whether he was told by support / a Club Gold rep that he could not cash out under their terms with a locked account. If he was in fact told this, then could he lock his account due to a gambling problem (or any other reason for that matter) and expect to be paid?

Regardless of how Michael's investigation turns out, my hope is that there are strong words towards the current terms and conditions and an emphasis on doing more to help problem gamblers, as well as educate the Club Gold Casino support team on such issues (as well as on the terms & conditions).

[marko6]

... there will be no return of lost funds in fair games.

Imagine you enter a land-based casino in Las Vegas or Atlantic City. You sit down at the tables and try to place a bet at your favorite games (Blackjack, Roulette), because you know that they have the highest odds. But then an employee tells you: "Sorry, Sir, you are not allowed to play at the tables nor at the poker machines. Please go to the slots. You may play there only!"

You then decide that you do not want to play at that casino, so you ask the casino to pay your funds, while you are gone. But the casino says: "No, Sir, you must come here once a month, and ask for a new 5k withdrawal!" ... and every time you go to the cashier you are flooded with promotional offers and many flashing slots.

You are exploiting the weakness of a player, who has money in his account and is forced to leave that money in there for 22 months (22x5k=110k). I had decently expressed my wish to cash out, and I had decently expressed my wish to lock my account until all funds are paid, but what did the casino do? It decided to limit my gameplay to slots!

I will stop posting for now, because I fear another load of bricks. Thanks to Leopold and Shay for their continued support. They really care for responsibilty.

marko6

[Roulette Zeitung]

Dear Reader,

1st please read Marko's words to understand some things better. It's the previous post.

---

Hello Marko,

i have no problem in giving you a "Thanks". Your example with the land based casino is very good and fit the situation. Many people here in this forum have never seen a real casino. They know only the virtual places. For many years i have toured the country and visited a lot of real casinos, based on fair and respectful conduct towards one another.

And believe me: A casino manager with this discourteous behaviour towards players or other people, as DinoG is doing it ("simply psychopaths who thrive on stalking and hurting others"), will be fired and banned from every real casino in Central Europe livelong.

As i wrote in the poll, all i have read here in this thread until today is hearsay. I didn't see one public document, no screenshot, and as the long as the primary source of all that hearsay is Club Gold, then it's only lobbying and nothing more.

On the other side some things are clear: I made an online chat to simulate Markos's situation. The result proofs that the chat lies (https://www.gpwa.org/forum/problem-g...tml#post733477).

And the result of the test, that is no hearsay, it's a fact, is the reason only believe in documents and screenshots and for sure not in hearsay of a rogue casino.

The following is no hearsay. These are actually terms and if you think twice, ......

Terms and Conditions of Play at Club Gold Casino
3.21. You may at any time and for any period of time choose to disallow Yourself from playing any of the Games in Play for Real Money mode by contacting Customer Support. In this case, You will not be able to access Your Player Account during this period.

Terms and Conditions of Play at Club Gold Casino
3.19. You may request the Casino to close Your Player Account at any time through the Website. Upon receiving such a request, the Casino shall transfer to You any amount standing to the credit of Your Player Account [...] subject to the maximum monthly withdrawal limit [...]

Terms and Conditions of Play at Club Gold Casino
3.18 [...] the maximum amount which may be withdrawn from Your Player Account in any one calendar month shall be €5,000 (including winnings) unless prior arrangements for a larger amount have been agreed with the Casino. [...]

---

And don't forget Club Gold's true face:

Terms and Conditions of Play at Club Gold Casino
(former) 7.4. [...] Should You approach any other party or make any public statement relating to Your complaint or dispute at any time prior to or after contacting our regulatory authority with the intention of purposely damaging the image and reputation of the Casino, Your act of doing so shall result in Your surrendering all rights to any claim whatsoever against the Casino and Your account shall be permanently closed and all winnings confiscated.

Terms and Conditions of Play at Club Gold Casino
7.2. The Casino shall have the right to block or close Your Player Account at its absolute discretion in the event that the Casino suspects that You are in breach of these T&C or that You are engaged in illegal activities of any sort or that You are a compulsive gambler or that You are facing financial hardship or for any other reason which the Casino considers appropriate in order to protect its reputation and business interests.

Accusing other programs and casinos, players and critical voices on the lowest level:

"Perhaps they are the owners of a competing casino operation. Perhaps they have been paid by a competitor to hurt us. Perhaps they are using this as a means of generating publicity and self promotion, with a view to increasing sales in their own online business. Perhaps they are simply psychopaths who thrive on stalking and hurting others"
(Quote 13 October 2013 | "DinoG" Club Gold Casino manager | remain anonymous)

Marko, this is my final post in this thread and i will give you as a farewell an old Native American parable, that describes, why some people are as they are.

A scorpion was walking along the bank of a river, wondering how to get to the other side. Suddenly, he saw a fox. He asked the fox to take him on his back across the river.
The fox said, "No. If I do that, you'll sting me, and I'll drown."
The scorpion assured him, "If I do that, we'll both drown."
The fox thought about it and finally agreed. So the scorpion climbed up on his back, and the fox began to swim. But halfway across the river, the scorpion stung him. As poison filled his veins, the fox turned to the scorpion and said, "Why did you do that? Now you'll drown, too."
"I couldn't help it," said the scorpion. "It's my nature."

Marko, regardless, what will happen here in this thread in the following days, weeks or months, I wish you all the best for the future.

Leopold

[-Shay-]

Expanding on one specific thing that Leopold said, my hope is that ALL genuine evidence used to arrive at Michael's conclusion will be "ok'd" to publish in full by both marko and Club Gold Casino in the interest of transparency in this matter.

[DinoG]

I have noted that Marko6 demanding a return of the balance as at June (50K?), and then later demanding a return of his highest ever balance from sometime in mid-February (75K) as some sort of punitive fine on the casino.

We would like to thank TheGooner for raising this crucial point, which is in fact something we have also brought to the attention of Michael and Anthony and may well be addressed in Michael's post.

The fact is that the player's initial win was of an amount of €50,000. Of that win, a total of €35,000 has actually been paid to the player. The total amount which the player has therefore lost in subsequent gambling was €15,000.

While it is true that the player made further wins over the next few weeks, this would not have been possible if his account had been locked on the day of his first win.

So, on the one hand the player is complaining that we followed his requests in repeatedly locking and unlocking his account (because no gambling problem had ever been mentioned by him until after he lost all his money), which allowed him to gamble away the balance of his account beyond the €35,000 which had been paid to him, but at the same time he is claiming reimbursement of all his subsequent wins up to his maximum ever balance, which he could not have possibly achieved had his account remained locked! Does the player not want to eat his apple and keep it whole at the same time?

This is yet another example of how this player and his close advisors are trying to mislead the readers of this forum in the hope of their support.

[marko6]

So, on the one hand the player is complaining that we followed his requests in repeatedly locking and unlocking his account (because no gambling problem had ever been mentioned by him until after he lost all his money), which allowed him to gamble away the balance of his account beyond the €35,000 which had been paid to him, but at the same time he is claiming reimbursement of all his subsequent wins up to his maximum ever balance, which he could not have possibly achieved had his account remained locked! Does the player not want to eat his apple and keep it whole at the same time?

I am sorry, but here I must intervene again. I was ready to lock my account after the 50k win. The chat logs prove that, because I had asked my account to be locked at the end of October. But I was told that I cannot receive my winnings, if I lock my account. So I had no other choice than to keep my account open. Actually, I was not allowed to self-exclude myself, unless I renounced my winnings.

I would have been happy receiving those 50k. But since the casino lied to me, it must take responsibilty for everthing that happened therafter. It cannot just blame me! By flooding me with promotional offers, the casino obviously wanted me to keep on playing. So I did, until I reached a balance of approximately 110k. Here, the second wrong-doing by the casino occurred. The casino realized that I was winning even more, and therefore it limited my gameplay to slots. I now repeat my own post from above:

Imagine you enter a land-based casino in Las Vegas or Atlantic City. You sit down at the tables and try to place a bet at your favorite games (Blackjack, Roulette), because you know that they have the highest odds. But then an employee tells you: "Sorry, Sir, you are not allowed to play at the tables nor at the poker machines. Please go to the slots. You may play there only!"

You then decide that you do not want to play at that casino, so you ask the casino to pay your funds, while you are gone. But the casino says: "No, Sir, you must come here once a month, and ask for a new 5k withdrawal!" ... and every time you go to the cashier you are flooded with promotional offers and many flashing slots.

I believe that a casino with such an unethical behaviour ought to pay the full balance (approximately 110k), which I had before my gameplay was limited to slots. That's it. There is nothing more to it. It is an appropriate fine to prevent such a rip-off from happening again.

I ask everyone to calm down now, because the investigation has not finished yet.

marko6

[-Shay-]

This is yet another example of how this player and his close advisors are trying to mislead the readers of this forum in the hope of their support.

nevermind

[marko6]

This will be a short post, but it is an essential one:

Have you ever heard of the so-called GOLDEN RULE?
It says that you should always treat others as you would like others to treat yourself.

So I ask you two, Dino and Carmel,
would you ever play at a casino that treats you the same way, as you treated me?
Would you ever play at a casino that lies to you, when you ask for an account lock?
Would you ever play at a casino that limits your gameplay to slots, if you win too much?
Would you ever play at a casino that may rip you off, without having to pay a fine?
WOULD YOU EVER RECOMMEND SUCH A CASINO TO OTHER PLAYERS???

Think about it! And be honest! There is still time to apologize, as I did for my faked email.
By the way: I have not forgiven myself for that mistake, because with that email I broke the Golden Rule myself. But (!) I apologized for it many times, and I have not yet heard a single word of apology from you.

If you get away without having to refund those 110k, then many casinos might copy your tricks (as they are published now) and rip off thousands of players in the future. It is bad luck for you that I did have my highest balance ever when you decided to limit my gameplay to slots. You should never have done so! I think it is obvious that it was not Playtech who put all table games and all video poker machines "under maintenance" for several weeks. If Playtech had done so, then no Playtech powered casino could have offered these games between March and May 2013.

Moreover, I ask the affiliates reading this thread:
Are you sure that you want to earn money from such a casino, if you don’t want to play at it yourself?
Be reminded that this money comes from players, that is humans trusting in fair play.

marko6

[Insider]

Moreover, I ask the affiliates reading this thread:
Are you sure that you want to earn money from such a casino, if you don’t want to play at it yourself?
Be reminded that this money comes from players, that is humans trusting in fair play.

marko6

my answer is: no

we warn our players for this tricky and shabby casinos but it always depends on the individual cases of how casinos handle it

[marko6]

Dino and Carmel,
why not posting something like:

"We admit that we have not treated this player fairly. Our chat operator told him that he must keep his account open to receive his winnings. And we limited his gameplay to slots when we realized that he continued to be lucky. Both of it was not fair. We will refund his loss and ask for the same mercy that was given to him for faking an email."

Once you write something like that, me (and probably others, too) will ask Anthony to change my/our vote to "no", because everyone deserves a second chance. For the future of your casino it is better doing it now, rather than to wait until all proofs are on the table. Please think about this advice! You cannot receive mercy, if you do not apologize. The Golden Rule mentioned in my previous post is the basic rule for fairness, even for operating a casino.

And always keep in mind: My email (although it was faked) actually helped to UNCOVER the truth, as this thread would have been closed if I had not reacted in any way. With your behaviour of not providing proofs (chat logs that you have), you COVER the truth. Whatever you do, the truth always wins in the end. And we both know what the truth is.

marko6

[mojo]

I had to copy my post from a previous thread because this has become way out of hand.

Let's take a minute and look at the facts.

Club Gold has been called out for telling a player that they cannot close their account (flush) and get paid. It seems like a ploy we have seen hundreds of time to make the player play it back. Club Gold said it was a 'mistake'.

Then there is some sort of blackmail in the terms saying if you post on a forum or say anything bad you will not be paid. It's been tried before Club Gold, it doesn't work for obvious reasons. Bad move. Club Gold said it was a 'mistake'.

Then there is the licensing on your website that was incorrect. Club Gold said it was a 'mistake'.

Then there is the player that faked an email and has done some dirty dealings. Yes marko, you need to calm down. You have done wrong too. I don't want to hear another word about it.

That does not excuse the casino's behavour however! The casino rep is belligerent and arrogant! Let's own it.

Why won't the casino admit they they messed up? The player admitted his part in the above post. What you all agree upon from here is up to both parties. None of my business.

I have no faith in CGC until they admit what happened and take RESPONSIBILITY! No matter what Michael (I respect his opinion) or Playtech says. OWN it CGC!

It is always better to say Hey, we made a mistake. Rather than try to obviously point fingers and blame blame blame someone else.

Now Club Gold comes around with all these inflammatory 'perhaps' against the posters in this thread. It smacks of the wild west days when there was no 'proof'. Unfortunately these folks offered the same thing. Accusing posters with no 'proof'. If an affiliate or player posted that then they would be screamed at for 'no proof'.

[mojo]

The question now is with releasing the chat logs.

Will CGC release the chat logs? It has been authorized by marko. There is no reason not to. The ball is in the casino's court.

That needs to be done immediately.

[Roulette Zeitung]

Helo mojo,

i would not write in this thread anymore, but one of my posts was complete censored. So i have to write it here to you: "You have shown backbone."
And you, Insider, too.
This is it.

Leopold

[marko6]

I strongly believe that the poll (regarding Club Gold) was initiated TOO EARLY. Currently, its results only show how many gpwa members TRUST that Club Gold has behaved correctly and how many gpwa members TRUST NOT.

The poll should be restarted (which is clearer than changing votes), once all chat logs regarding my complaint against Club Gold have been examined and the results of the examination been published. Because then the poll results will reflect, how many gpwa members are STILL CONVINCED that Club Gold has behaved correctly and how many gpwa members are CONVINCED that is has not. It's only then, when proper action can be taken. I even suggest to start the poll, after Club Gold has had a chance to let us know how it is dealing with the results of the examination, which will give Club Gold even one more chance.

Until then I advise everyone to calm down (I myself always KINDLY asked Club Gold to grant authorisation to pass on these chat logs). And UNTIL THEN Club Gold Casino still has the great chance to say anything, that they have not done yet. Any human may learn and improve himself. Only those casinos, whose operators refuse to learn and to accept achievements made in Responsible Gaming, will be segregated by both players and gaming websites.

By the way: This might be the first post, for which I might receive a "thanks" from Dino and Carmel. I truly hope that it opens the door to a settlement.

marko6

[Insider]

The poll should be restarted (which is clearer than changing votes), once all chat logs regarding my complaint against Club Gold have been examined and the results of the examination been published. Because then the poll results will reflect, how many gpwa members are STILL CONVINCED that Club Gold has behaved correctly and how many gpwa members are CONVINCED that is has not. It's only then, when proper action can be taken. I even suggest to start the poll, after Club Gold has had a chance to let us know how it is dealing with the results of the examination, which will give Club Gold even one more chance.

You believe that anyone will get these chat logs to read ? I don't believe it.

By the way: This might be the first post, for which I might receive a "thanks" from Dino and Carmel. I truly hope that it opens the door to a settlement.

Sorry but you don't need any thanks from these guys

(this should happen if anyone is trying to type CGC on his keyboard)

If you want a thanks, you can get a thanks from an honest affiliate (not a big one but much experienced guy... )