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  1. #41
    NLP-GOD is offline Public Member
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    The information is conflicting. If Lou's email is accurate then Warren at a minimum and potentially Raj look pretty guilty (and may have legal implications to deal with - especially Warren if he signed the contract under a false name):

    From Lou:

    I was opposed to the idea but he went ahead and signed a contract with a provider under a false name and informed me after the fact we were now in the poker business.
    If Warren is accurate, then they are all guilty of the massive cover-up and conflict of interest.

    From Warren:
    Second, Lou and I were approached by a group of investors seeking our help in launching two new online properties: Absolute Slots, an online casino, and Cardspike, an online poker website.
    We need the contract to understand this and we don't have it.

    I wish Warren or Lou would state that the only properties EMG managed were CS and AS. It would take the heat off of so may of your clients who are CAP certified. It would also let affiliates get back to work instead of being held hostage by this major scandal. Many of us weren't sure if that CS and AS was the end of the story. If you could make a statement to that effect, you'd probably get a lot more privacy handling your matters.
    Last edited by NLP-GOD; 25 February 2009 at 8:17 pm.

  2. #42
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    Personally I am done here. Lou and Warren will fight it out.

    Turn out the lights.

    I do hope that the arguing along the way is forgiven. We all had our opinions. Someone told me all I do is 'bitch, bitch, bitch'. That is probably true. But it didn't stop me from bitching some more.

    I say everyone gets a free pass and we start fresh again. Lou and warren and Cap are on their own now. It's up to them, not us.

    Michael, with all due respect, because I certainly do respect you, this forum should not now be fighting the lou/warren fight. Please, lets get back to affiliating.

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  4. #43
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    Some people seem really bitter still, jumping from forum to forum posting up either the same message or different messages on the same theme.

    Some of these people have demanded answers and transparency and that cardspike affiliates get paid as well as a commitment to reduce certification fees and to stop stealing other websites ideas..

    Well looks like most if not all of cardspikes affiliates have been paid, there has been admissions and apologises and ideas on how to move forward with clearer transparency, cap have also said they will reduce certification fees and stop doing audits and the t&c program.

    So at this point Warren at least has done all that has been requested but for some this is not good enough, they wont accept anything that cap does to put things right it seems.

    Which begs the question why even demand all this if you never ever had any intention of accepting whatever cap did to put these issues right.

    The agenda for some and still is it appears to me is to see cap destroyed no matter what,

    Some will be really depressed when this all settles down, though no doubt they will find something else to get their teeth into, if its in your nature, its in your nature.

    I wont say who i am refering to simply because i dont need any arguements, this is just my own observations.

    For me cap have finally stood up to be counted and i for one am prepared to see how they perform from now on and withold my judgement on them until such time as a judgement can fairly be made and not before.

    They are on trial in my eyes and i am prepared to give them the time to prove they have come out of all this for the better.

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  6. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betpartners View Post
    Some of these people have demanded answers and transparency and that cardspike affiliates get paid as well as a commitment to reduce certification fees and to stop stealing other websites ideas..

    Well looks like most if not all of cardspikes affiliates have been paid, there has been admissions and apologises and ideas on how to move forward with clearer transparency, cap have also said they will reduce certification fees and stop doing audits and the t&c program.

    So at this point Warren at least has done all that has been requested but for some this is not good enough, they wont accept anything that cap does to put things right it seems.

    Which begs the question why even demand all this if you never ever had any intention of accepting whatever cap did to put these issues right.

    The agenda for some and still is it appears to me is to see cap destroyed no matter what,

    Some will be really depressed when this all settles down, though no doubt they will find something else to get their teeth into, if its in your nature, its in your nature.

    I wont say who i am refering to simply because i dont need any arguements, this is just my own observations.

    For me cap have finally stood up to be counted and i for one am prepared to see how they perform from now on and withold my judgement on them until such time as a judgement can fairly be made and not before.

    They are on trial in my eyes and i am prepared to give them the time to prove they have come out of all this for the better.
    I think your missing something. We demand to get paid BECAUSE WE ARE OWED MONEY! Not because that's what it will take to fix things at CAP. We demand transparency because WE WERE LIED TO. And now we want the truth. Not so that it fixes our relationship with CAP.

    I shouldn't lie, I care much more about the getting paid issue than the we were lied to issue. The lies are somewhat understandable in the climate we are in in the US and they can't come right out and say they own these places, but on the other hand, they never should have put themselves in this situation in the first place.
    Last edited by AndreS; 25 February 2009 at 11:02 pm.

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  8. #45
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    Seriously Betpartners, why are you always doing this? You make matters so much worse!

    Please cut it out!

    Stop the madness Betpartners!

    Quotes from Betpartners:


    The agenda for some and still is it appears to me is to see cap destroyed no matter what,
    Some will be really depressed when this all settles down, though no doubt they will find something else to get their teeth into, if its in your nature, its in your nature.
    I wont say who i am refering to simply because i dont need any arguements, this is just my own observations.
    So at this point Warren at least has done all that has been requested but for some this is not good enough, they wont accept anything that cap does to put things right it seems.
    They are on trial in my eyes and i am prepared to give them the time to prove they have come out of all this for the better.

  9. #46
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    Hi all,

    Lou I am sorry to hear you think your problems are the worst kind anybody should ever endure but I don't know who to believe because I think you've all (owners of CAP, not the community) proven yourselves liars, hypocrites and now fools.


    You don't know for certain how it would unravel if big brother decided to come after you tomorrow for what you said yesterday. Its entirely possible a lot of those in the states could end up collateral damage.
    and that puts anybody who has ever been a member at CAP who lives in, or visits the states ... at risk.

    Has it escaped everyone's mind that this little public parade just might turn a lot of very short-haired heads out in DC?

    Has it escaped everyone's mind that Lou has admitted publicly and to great extent he's owned part of an online gambling casino & poker room?

    Dude you crossed the line of free speech so far back that you'll need to sit down and rest up to make the trip back.



    edited to add. Just because the aff community is willing to forgive doesn't guarantee the damage done won't still have to be endured. Most of all by the CAP owners. I'd be looking for a country that doesn't allow the states to bring you back. Seriously.
    Last edited by bb1web; 25 February 2009 at 11:30 pm.
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  11. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo View Post
    Seriously Betpartners, why are you always doing this? You make matters so much worse!

    Please cut it out!

    Stop the madness Betpartners!

    Quotes from Betpartners:
    LOL Mojo you once told me i was a funny guy, you my friend are even funnier.

    So i understand, you want me to stop this madness, me? you want me to basically shut up and say nothing but you say nothing to those that no matter what just crucify cap even when they do what everyone has demanded of them.

    seems a little hypocritical to me.

    Now instead of me saying i am prepared to give cap a second chance now that they have come clean you would have me say they are liars and thiefs and corrupt and instead of being told to stop this madness i would probably have got a thank you from you.

    I like you Mojo but i know what side of the bread you butter, so with all respect when i see you asking those that demanded cap come clean but still carry on with their tirades to stop this madness then maybe i will give your request more consideration.

    But until i see that why should i be silenced because i think cap should be given a chance to redeem themselves.

  12. #48
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    I am sooo done. Lou and Warren will work it out. Things happen as they should in the big book.

    Nite.

  13. #49
    NLP-GOD is offline Public Member
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    I wish Warren or Lou would state that the only properties EMG managed were CS and AS. It would take the heat off of so may of your clients who are CAP certified. It would also let affiliates get back to work instead of being held hostage by this major scandal. Many of us weren't sure if that CS and AS was the end of the story. If you could make a statement to that effect, you'd probably get a lot more privacy handling your matters.
    Right now I assume that there are more clients beyond Card Spike and AS. If not why doesn't Lou say so? Is it because if there were more clients:

    (a) and he answers "nope that's all of it" he would be lying again, or
    (b) he can't make a statement on who else is affiliated with EMG because of confidentiality agreements with the clients.

    There is one option though which would be making a statement such as: "As much as I'd love to tell you who else is being managed by EMG, I cannot due to confidentiality agreements." or similar. I think we understand why you would not be able to divulge that information. I think it's fair. The programs that you might be trying to protect are not innocent angels and you are not naming them. If you want to regain trust of any affiliate or come clean truly, this is the first step.

    Personally I think everyone is turning out the lights a little early.

  14. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by bb1web View Post
    Hi all,

    Lou I am sorry to hear you think your problems are the worst kind anybody should ever endure but I don't know who to believe because I think you've all (owners of CAP, not the community) proven yourselves liars, hypocrites and now fools.


    You don't know for certain how it would unravel if big brother decided to come after you tomorrow for what you said yesterday. Its entirely possible a lot of those in the states could end up collateral damage.
    and that puts anybody who has ever been a member at CAP who lives in, or visits the states ... at risk.

    Has it escaped everyone's mind that this little public parade just might turn a lot of very short-haired heads out in DC?

    Has it escaped everyone's mind that Lou has admitted publicly and to great extent he's owned part of an online gambling casino & poker room?

    Dude you crossed the line of free speech so far back that you'll need to sit down and rest up to make the trip back.



    edited to add. Just because the aff community is willing to forgive doesn't guarantee the damage done won't still have to be endured. Most of all by the CAP owners. I'd be looking for a country that doesn't allow the states to bring you back. Seriously.
    Nope, it didn't escape mine as I posted in Lou's thread over at Casinomeister yesterday morning about this same issue here...

    http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...tml#post284610

    I personally think they all three are Fu*ked when the DOJ picks up on the fact that their US Corporation (EMG) was in fact helping manage and profiting from an online poker room that took bets from US Citizens and they both have now admitted to this in several public forums, sorry guys but you fellows must have rocks for brains by admitting this in public, you guys problems haven't even started to happen yet.

    Also could be the reason for Warrens sudden departure and step down as a managing partner at EMG.

    If you guys think that it was OK and legal for a US Corporation to aid and abet as an accessory to the fact, then you guys need to go back and re-read the UIGEA again. Just for starters it could be considered "theft by deception" and also "theft by conversion".

    If EMG had not of been a US Corporation incorporated on US soil you would probably not have too much to worry about, but that does not appear to be the case here.

    I've also noticed too that Lou continues to dodge the serious questions here just like he has over in the Casinomeister thread.
    Last edited by TheGamblingGuru; 26 February 2009 at 1:46 am.

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  16. #51
    theGman is offline Public Member
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    Guys i have to commend Michael, again he shows what kind of man he truly is and that he is working for the benefit of our community in general .

    In regards to Lou and his issues with Warren - i agree with Fergy - dont kick a man when he is down - Lou was and still is one of us - as for Warren Jolly - well i dont really know him and truth be told i dont really care to. If he treats shareholders in this manner what else can he do. Lou is the founder and heartbeat of CAP and without him there really is no CAP.

    Circumstance is a strange thing and we should listen to Lou and perhaps even assist him as he might just be telling the truth here . Perhaps he has been outmanouvered in the boardroom . Who can say they have never been conned by a partner or business associate.

    Dont forget that Warren Jolly despite the slick words was also as much a part of the whole CS deception as Lou was .

  17. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by theGman View Post
    Guys i have to commend Michael, again he shows what kind of man he truly is and that he is working for the benefit of our community in general .

    In regards to Lou and his issues with Warren - i agree with Fergy - dont kick a man when he is down - Lou was and still is one of us - as for Warren Jolly - well i dont really know him and truth be told i dont really care to. If he treats shareholders in this manner what else can he do. Lou is the founder and heartbeat of CAP and without him there really is no CAP.

    Circumstance is a strange thing and we should listen to Lou and perhaps even assist him as he might just be telling the truth here . Perhaps he has been outmanouvered in the boardroom . Who can say they have never been conned by a partner or business associate.

    Dont forget that Warren Jolly despite the slick words was also as much a part of the whole CS deception as Lou was .
    I think they will both equally share in the retributions that are to come from their ill-gotten gain. You play with fire and sooner or later you're going to get burnt.

  18. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Betpartners View Post
    Some people seem really bitter still, jumping from forum to forum posting up either the same message or different messages on the same theme.

    Some of these people have demanded answers and transparency and that cardspike affiliates get paid as well as a commitment to reduce certification fees and to stop stealing other websites ideas..

    Well looks like most if not all of cardspikes affiliates have been paid, there has been admissions and apologises and ideas on how to move forward with clearer transparency, cap have also said they will reduce certification fees and stop doing audits and the t&c program.

    So at this point Warren at least has done all that has been requested but for some this is not good enough, they wont accept anything that cap does to put things right it seems.
    I understand where you're coming from BetPartners. But to many of us, what Warren is doing is too little, too late.

    This is just about as last-minute on damage control as you can get. And that's all it is, damage control. There is no real remorse over their actions, there is only concern for their bottom line here.

    That's why people are so ticked off at Lou, because all he does is cry about HIS situation, and he expects people to care and support HIM when he didn't care about anyone else or try to prevent this from happening.

    Likewise with Warren, while he's certainly better with words and comes across as the more rational partner, this is only damage control. He'd be happily spending our money if none of this had ever been revealed, without a concern about the wrongness of their actions.

    EDIT TO ADD THE FOLLOWING: Essentially what Warren is doing is the same as if someone broke into your home and robbed you. Then when they were caught, they just give you back what they stole and say "ok, we're cool now, right?"

    Or if they robbed a bank and their only punishment was to pay back what they stole and nothing beyond that. There is essentially zero reason for them to not commit that crime over and over again, because the most they stand to lose is YOUR money!

    Quote Originally Posted by theGman View Post
    Guys i have to commend Michael, again he shows what kind of man he truly is and that he is working for the benefit of our community in general .
    His tolerance is very high, it amazes me.

    In regards to Lou and his issues with Warren - i agree with Fergy - dont kick a man when he is down - Lou was and still is one of us -
    Lou has shown no remorse for his actions or involvement in this whole affair. All he's done is point fingers at everyone else, blaming them for his problems.

    He refuses to accept responsibility, and doesn't even seem to understand or care about the harm he inflicted upon this industry. He just wants sympathy and support in getting his cash cow back.

    How that makes him "one of us" I don't understand?

    as for Warren Jolly - well i dont really know him and truth be told i dont really care to. If he treats shareholders in this manner what else can he do.
    I'm not saying Warren is any better, I believe all three partners are to blame for this fiasco. But put yourself in Warrens shoes. Lou goes off on these crazy public tirades that are really bad for the company.

    If you ran a company and one of your partners was acting like that, you'd make efforts to silence them and push them out as well. You wouldn't just sit idly by while they continued to make your business look even worse.

    Circumstance is a strange thing and we should listen to Lou and perhaps even assist him as he might just be telling the truth here . Perhaps he has been outmanouvered in the boardroom . Who can say they have never been conned by a partner or business associate.

    Dont forget that Warren Jolly despite the slick words was also as much a part of the whole CS deception as Lou was .
    I agree that Warren is guilty just like Lou. But to say that Lou is "telling the truth here" is naive in my opinion. Lou blows everything out of proportion in an attempt to make others look worse and himself look better.

    Back when GPWA and APCW were trying to find out the truth, Lou was callilng them the most vile, wretched people on the planet, comparing them to Hitler, etc.

    Then when he's ousted from CAP they obviously prevent him from accessing a company email account. That makes perfect sense to me. So he goes and twists the wordings and situation to try and tug at heartstrings and get sympathy.

    He claims they "hijacked" his email accounts, which is far from an accurate portrayal. He complains that this was the primary method to keep in touch with doctors, his childrens school, etc.

    That is just a load of exgaggerated crud, Lous attempt to make what is happening to him look worse than it is. Are we to believe he can't use a phone to contact doctors and his childrens school? Does he not have an email that isn't attached to CAP?
    Last edited by PokerNations; 26 February 2009 at 5:50 am.
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  20. #54
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    How that makes him "one of us" I don't understand?
    He has been a gaming affiliate for years and has for years tried to better a lot of affiliates causes. Does that not earn him any mileage ?


    I'm not saying Warren is any better, I believe all three partners are to blame for this fiasco. But put yourself in Warrens shoes. Lou goes off on these crazy public tirades that are really bad for the company.

    If you ran a company and one of your partners was acting like that, you'd make efforts to silence them and push them out as well. You wouldn't just sit idly by while they continued to make your business look even worse.
    I have spoken to both guys in the past and find Lou to be the far more amicable of the two. That is my personal opionion .

    This is why i suggested that possibly Lou has been completely outmanouvered here and thus his petulant displays.

    Perhaps i am being naive you may be right..

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    Quote Originally Posted by theGman View Post
    He has been a gaming affiliate for years and has for years tried to better a lot of affiliates causes. Does that not earn him any mileage ?
    Given how he constantly twists situations and lies, not really. He claims he's a "majority shareholder" in CAP, when in actuality he isn't.

    He calls GPWA and APCW some of the most vile and disgusting people on the planet, and claim what they are doing is one of the most horrible things anyone can do to another person, he even compares them to Hitler.

    Now he's turning around and claiming the same about Warren, using the terms "hijacked" in regards to his company email account, and trying to make us believe that he used this as his primary source of contact with doctors and schools.

    Lou has consistantly been lying to us all, exaggerating situations, refusing to accept responsibility, etc. So sorry, but no, I don't see how his past is going to save him in this current situation. The guy is out of control or out of touch with reality.

    I have spoken to both guys in the past and find Lou to be the far more amicable of the two. That is my personal opionion .

    This is why i suggested that possibly Lou has been completely outmanouvered here and thus his petulant displays.

    Perhaps i am being naive you may be right..
    I'm just saying that the way the two conduct themselves on public message boards, Warren comes out looking better.

    That being said, I don't like either of them, and since they're both trying to claim the other was completely responsible for the current situation, it's likely they are both guilty and hoping to make the other party the fall guy.
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  22. #56
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    what i like about GPWA is that there is a diverse opinion on here, yes most have a bad opinion of cap but some do have an alternative viewpoint and that is refreshing

    I dont see this on the other forums, i am not including cap in this as they are the subject, but having been on casinomeister and gia in particular it is a one way street of hostility even if the professor is allowed to post there.

    GPWA has come out of all this with its reputation enhanced in my opinion

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    Quote Originally Posted by Betpartners View Post
    Some people seem really bitter still, jumping from forum to forum posting up either the same message or different messages on the same theme.

    Some of these people have demanded answers and transparency and that cardspike affiliates get paid as well as a commitment to reduce certification fees and to stop stealing other websites ideas..

    Well looks like most if not all of cardspikes affiliates have been paid, there has been admissions and apologises and ideas on how to move forward with clearer transparency, cap have also said they will reduce certification fees and stop doing audits and the t&c program.

    So at this point Warren at least has done all that has been requested but for some this is not good enough, they wont accept anything that cap does to put things right it seems.

    Which begs the question why even demand all this if you never ever had any intention of accepting whatever cap did to put these issues right.

    The agenda for some and still is it appears to me is to see cap destroyed no matter what,

    Some will be really depressed when this all settles down, though no doubt they will find something else to get their teeth into, if its in your nature, its in your nature.

    I wont say who i am refering to simply because i dont need any arguements, this is just my own observations.

    For me cap have finally stood up to be counted and i for one am prepared to see how they perform from now on and withold my judgement on them until such time as a judgement can fairly be made and not before.

    They are on trial in my eyes and i am prepared to give them the time to prove they have come out of all this for the better.
    You have only been here for one month ,can I ask what your name is on other forums?

  24. #58
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    i am not on any of the other forums, just here

    but what difference does that make anyway

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    Quote Originally Posted by Betpartners View Post
    ...I dont see this on the other forums, i am not including cap in this as they are the subject, but having been on casinomeister and gia in particular it is a one way street of hostility even if the professor is allowed to post there....
    The hostility comes from all the people that Lou has screwed and done wrong to over the years.

    Most folks that know what has been going on, feel he deserves a lot more hostility than he has received... You reap what you sow.

    Did I ever tell you guys the not so funny story about when Lou called the police on me....

    Lou told the police I was running an illegal gambling operation out of my home. I wasn't and he knew it, but he wanted to cause me trouble.
    Lucky for me one of my close relatives is sheriff where I live...

    My family could have been homeless and without income and I could have ended up in jail... If Lou had gotten his way. Lou showed no sympathy to me or my family... Why should I show him and his family any?

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    In light of recent events, thought I would have more to say. Clearly many deceit people have been given the shaft and the saga will likely continue. I do not see the full disclosure I was hoping for. The casinos listed a just a mere glimpse into some properties CAP/owners have a financial interest in. I was hoping to see them all. I suppose rather me going done the road of proof this, that, and the other thing I will remain reserved. Maybe in a year’s time the Affiliate’s community radar will pick them up.

    The theme is until there such replacement for Warren and Lou CAP IMO is rogue. Until then CAP will continue to spiral downwards into the pit of Sh**. Over the last couple of years I think the Mercy jar was slowly emptied, I share no sympathy or optimism.

    Along with DB sales, conflicts of interest, and using members as pawns in very huge chess game I will be very surprised if anyone sticks with them. But I know there will be a few die hards readily available to make that sacrifice. And some will play along for the betterment of their wallet size, the means always justifies the end. And some will just be content on being victims. But oh well I suppose the world is not a perfect place.

    Warren/Lou all I have to say good luck with the Cattle Drive. Herd them up!

    greek39

  28. The Following User Says Thank You to pgaming For This Useful Post:

    worthy (26 February 2009)

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