Promote big names or lesser names?

[BigBlu]

What are your experiences with promoting big names (example Bet365) versus the lesser known names (example Ruby Royal)?

1. Which have better conversion rates?
2. Which earns you more money in totality?

I sometimes get overwhelm or confused if an affiliate program has a multiple casinos that I can promote (example: Referback). Which should I promote? If my visitors sign up in Site A via my link, and (i) 2 months later signup to Site B via a banner found on Site A, will I also be credited for revenue from Site B? and (ii) 2 months later the same visitor signs-up to Site C via Google or via another affiliate link will I be credited as well, or the same customer revenue will goto the new affiliate?

[WinYourWayKyle]

I would think discussing your website with your affiliate manager. They will be able to tell you what sites have better conversions and such.

I tend to stick with bigger name affiliate programs who are well established. This gives me more confidence to make sure I get paid and get the support from the affiliate manager that I need.

That is just my personal preference though!

[TheGooner]

I agree with SportsPulpKyle

We look for program longevity and top class player experience when determining which programs we will promote.

Go for programs that REALLY are the best of class, and you'll find that many of the continual problems that you read about on site regarding shaving, and failure to pay, and programs closing will simply not affect you at all.


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Some affiliates like to try jumping on a new program because they believe that they can be the only ones promoting them and get plenty of new signups.

But - I have no idea how they've researched the financials behind the organisation - or really playtested the player experience and banking situation at these places.

It is these new programs with only a small amount of cash and less than a year online that have the biggest risk of failing to reach critical mass or profitablity and eventually falling over.


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Look after your players interests first - by only getting involved with the best places - and you'll find that the business side is a lot smoother too.

[GCG]

We look for program longevity and top class player experience when determining which programs we will promote.

Go for programs that REALLY are the best of class, and you'll find that many of the continual problems that you read about on site regarding shaving, and failure to pay, and programs closing will simply not affect you at all.

That is all true BUT

1. most of these programs have Negative Carryover Over, big wins will not affect you that much only if you have good traffic numbers.
2. these programs have been promoted for years so chances are small that you get a playersbase again only if you have good traffic numbers.

Rotate these programs on your sites and find out for yourself if it is worth doing because results differ a lot, good luck.

[BigBlu]

Thanks all for your thoughts.

I recently found a up and coming bookmaker operating in my region. This bookmaker can deposit money into the customers' bank accounts within one day, compared to established bookmakers who take about 5 working days.

Unfortunately, this bookmaker has NCO and high tier threshold. Is it worth it to partner with this bookmaker?

[baldidiot]

I do promote a few of the smaller names, but I prefer to stick to the big boys - I promote primarily to the UK & Europe so the larger sites often have brand recognition and names that the players already know and trust.

[ecobika]

Thanks all for your thoughts.

I recently found a up and coming bookmaker operating in my region. This bookmaker can deposit money into the customers' bank accounts within one day, compared to established bookmakers who take about 5 working days.

Unfortunately, this bookmaker has NCO and high tier threshold. Is it worth it to partner with this bookmaker?

Short answer: yes.
The bigger picture: some behemot big name operators are losing the understanding of many affiliates just now...but you can trust 100% in most of the the big names.
Smaller names are also have benefits, fast answers to your questions and prompt, flexible payouts. I would suggest carefully selected mix of NCO and NNCO and big and small operators. If you visit the site under, you will have some ideas, what i speak about:

[Lee-Ann]

If I may wade in here....

having worked with both Massive Global Operators and smaller niche ones - I can say that you should consider working with everyone at least once - then pick the relationships you think work best for your site and your objectives.

Often a smaller operator can provide a better "people" service and a larger one - perhaps more technical capabilities as an example. If you can marry the two requirements sufficiently in the number of brands you work with to get the right mix of partners that :

1) Convert well
2) Are interested in your business objectives
3) Want to build a solid long term relationship with you
4) Responding to your requirements *(affiliate support, promotions, creative requests)
5) Pay on time - all the time

Then I'd say you would have success with a broad mix of different operators all bringing their own unique specialisms to make your site interesting and competitive.

[wagerjunction]

If I may wade in here....

having worked with both Massive Global Operators and smaller niche ones - I can say that you should consider working with everyone at least once - then pick the relationships you think work best for your site and your objectives.

Often a smaller operator can provide a better "people" service and a larger one - perhaps more technical capabilities as an example. If you can marry the two requirements sufficiently in the number of brands you work with to get the right mix of partners that :

1) Convert well
2) Are interested in your business objectives
3) Want to build a solid long term relationship with you
4) Responding to your requirements *(affiliate support, promotions, creative requests)
5) Pay on time - all the time

Then I'd say you would have success with a broad mix of different operators all bringing their own unique specialisms to make your site interesting and competitive.

I second that.

Try a different mix of big and small operators as both sides have their advantages and disadvantages.

Then, according to what you appreciate more or less about them, you can make the choices which will prove the best for you.


Cheers

[CoopersPick]

there are benefits and drawbacks of both if you use a smaller company deposits, payouts, and customer service may lack but you may be able to find them new players so its only something you can determine.

[graham]

I think a good mix is important, but when you take lesser names just make sure they are with programs that are going to be around long enough for you to get paid. That is the most important thing (not that the big sites cant screw you over too as we've seen, but I think its a less common occurence).

[jctroy440]

Look, if you are starting out new with a big name you're ranked 5,456,000
If your starting out with a small name you're ranked 4,456,000
Comprende?

Publish your site and work on SEO diligently day in and day out

While you are waiting (6-8 months) for your site to rise in the 35,000,000 gambling portal purveyors of poop web site rankings, you may want to do some offline marketing. Maybe call all of your friends and tell them that you are now in the gambling business and would like them to gamble on your site. Print some business cards and when you meet new people, let them know you are in the online casino business. You don't have to spend a lot to make a lot just promote your site like a cheap politician and some of the mud will stick to the wall. Hello!

Most of the customers who are gambling now on my sites I met personally.

[Simmo!]

This is a tough question because there are pros and cons to both. I think one thing thats worth remembering is what has happened in poker: Pokerstars and Full Tilt have, from what I have heard, grown so big that they are now treating affiliates poorly - vastly reduced commissions or bigger qualifying criteria seem to be teh orer of the day.

In casino there are a handful of groups that could potentially get to a similar level in my opinion, particularly in light of what is happening behind the scenes in the US: Party and Bwin spring to mind, 888 to a lesser degree. If you look at history, Party and Bwin have already shown us what they think of affiliates. And remember all that retroactive crap a few years ago? That was a warning.

Conversely, there is rarely a guarantee that a small brand will stick around, is funed properly or in some cases is run by people fit to run businesses. The whole Rival thing probably proves that.

So it needs some common sense to find the balance but there are a lot of midle-grond operations that seem to fit the bill - at the moment. That could all change when the USA opens up more or course, who knows.

It makes a lot of sense to diversify over as many programs as you feel comfortable with to. And one other thing I do is to spread players: I don't seel spots on my site, I move and shake trying to keep all programs I work with as evenly spread as possible. Not easy - some just don't work for me, but at least it minimises any impact if you get a problem.

My philosophy is that I don't want any one program contributing more than 25% of my monthly revenue on a regular basis. If I see that happening I shift them down a bit and give another program a chance to catch up. Ideally 10% is the max but that's hard to balance. But so far, it means I have never taken a big hit on earnings despite some issues with individual programs.

Diversity is the key: spread your players over several operators, get a spread of players from different countries, from different sources and search engines and ensure you represent different software platforms. If you rely on traffic from one search engine, if you only run one website, if all your stuff is on one server or with the same hosting provider, if most of your players from are one country or they mostly go to one casino or group, you risk losing your business overnight.

Examples of some questions worth asking yourself on a regular basis:

1) What would happen to my revenues if Google (insert your main traffic source here) stopped sending me traffic overnight?
2) What would happen to my revenue if Rival (insert your main earning software provider here) went under/got DOJ'ed?
3) What would happen to my revenues if Tusk Group (insert your biggest earning program here) went under/got DOJ'ed?
4) How would the USA (insert your main active country here) banning Internet gambling affect me?
5) What would happen to my revenue if I lost my main domain/website for some unforeseen reason?
6) Do I have multiple servers or hosts and are backups regularly taken?


Just my take on things anyway

Cheers

Simmo!

[casinogod]

Ah Simmo you have raised some excellent points and some very good questions.

I was going to chime in but after reading you post I don't really have much else to add.

Just be sure to mix it up and only work with programs that you trust, make sure you check them our before you start workign with them to avoid any tears later on. IronicallyI stumbled accross this thread because I am searching the forums trying to get info on a program we are considering working with.

[ecobika]

in the light of the problems of a big behemot, which have permanent difficulties just now just because the pathological changes of their T&C and system, and the pathological fixed idea to change to a more glittering system, which is simply not working, or working properly only a few days every months, I tend to think that some big, publicly listed operators are not the best choices, no matter if NCO or no NCO

[sgc]

It depends on geographic focus. In some areas big names will go better.

[manuelinbmw]

1) I look for a brand that is strong in the market were i am in.
2) I need a dedicated affiliate manager.
3) Conversions I need them to convert some take longer than others. I also take a look at what my competitors are promoting this gives me a general idea of who the big players are.
4)If i want a specific brand I will join an affiliate program after having done thorough research on them just to promote that brand and disregard the rest of there brands.

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[CoopersPick]

Like anything else it is a numbers game.

[manuelinbmw]

Like anything else it is a numbers game.

I couldn't agree more. Definetely a numbers game.

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[NoDepositCasino]

Interesting advice to do also a lot of offline marketing.

@ jctroy440 - out of curiosity how many players were you able to get this way?