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  1. #1
    Schankwart is offline Public Member
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    Post RESOLVED - Planet23 applies retroactive bonus terms & steals $1,400

    A few weeks ago (before Top Game's first faulty games were announced publicly) I played the welcome bonus of Planet23 Casino to get an impression of their services and compose a review of their casino.

    I got lucky and won $1,400 on their Video Poker machines. After I requested a withdrawal Planet23 however told me that "only slots would be allowed" and that "Video Poker would have been excluded".
    Contrary to their claims the terms on their website however still clearly displayed Video Poker as an allowed game until they altered them this week. Below is a screenshot of the original terms which clearly display that Video Poker could be played. These terms were published under this link:



    After I complained to Planet23 and demanded payment, they changed the terms a few days ago and retroactively added Video Poker to the list of restricted games:



    They did this so poorly that they even forgot to use the same font as for the rest of the text. This joke can still be seen on their website right now: link

    To clarify this: I played their welcome bonus in June, many weeks before they changed the terms.

    Almost worse is the fact though that their software provider Top Game supports the foul actions of this casino now. I contacted their representative "Jonathan" in this forum who, despite of all the proof I provided him with, claims that I "would have played a disallowed game" and that I am a bonus abuser.

    I do not know how casino fraud could be more obvious and be done on a less professional level. If anyone would like to view the full screenshot and terms, be welcome PM me as it is not possible to attach these files to this thread.


    Draw your own conclusion if you want to advertise this bunch or play with their casino. I will make sure the rogue actions of Planet23 are going to get exposed over the web soon.

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  3. #2
    wheretobet is offline Public Member
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    Thanks for this report. While we do not currently list Planet23 in our gaming brands database, we will report this in our casino alert section on Wheretobet.com, so that players are aware of this reprehensible activity.

    Rick
    Wheretobet.com


    Quote Originally Posted by Schankwart View Post
    A few weeks ago (before Top Game's first faulty games were announced publicly) I played the welcome bonus of Planet23 Casino to get an impression of their services and compose a review of their casino.

    I got lucky and won $1,400 on their Video Poker machines. After I requested a withdrawal Planet23 however told me that "only slots would be allowed" and that "Video Poker would have been excluded".
    Contrary to their claims the terms on their website however still clearly displayed Video Poker as an allowed game until they altered them this week. Below is a screenshot of the original terms which clearly display that Video Poker could be played. These terms were published under this link:



    After I complained to Planet23 and demanded payment, they changed the terms a few days ago and retroactively added Video Poker to the list of restricted games:



    They did this so poorly that they even forgot to use the same font as for the rest of the text. This joke can still be seen on their website right now: link

    To clarify this: I played their welcome bonus in June, many weeks before they changed the terms.

    Almost worse is the fact though that their software provider Top Game supports the foul actions of this casino now. I contacted their representative "Jonathan" in this forum who, despite of all the proof I provided him with, claims that I "would have played a disallowed game" and that I am a bonus abuser.

    I do not know how casino fraud could be more obvious and be done on a less professional level. If anyone would like to view the full screenshot and terms, be welcome PM me as it is not possible to attach these files to this thread.


    Draw your own conclusion if you want to advertise this bunch or play with their casino. I will make sure the rogue actions of Planet23 are going to get exposed over the web soon.

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  5. #3
    Mr.Noise is offline Private Member
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    Very poor behavior from Planet123!

    Some casinos seems not to understand that withdrawls are part of their business.

    I will blacklist them over the weekend!

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  7. #4
    danny23 is offline Sponsor Affiliate Program
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    Default Planet23 Casino

    Dear GPWA members,

    My name is Danny and I'm the Casino manager at Planet23.com

    I've read the thread here and I would like to comment about it, as the story isn't accurate.

    Planet23 casino general terms and conditions restrict VP as a game which can be played to redeem the bonus. These are the general terms and conditions, which appear in the site.

    Inside one of our inner pages, VP wasn't excluded like in the general terms and conditions. We spoke to our company's lawyers and consulted with Top Game as our operator and everyone agreed that the general terms and conditions overcome any other T&C in the site, which was a mistake in this case.

    We spoke to the player, explained it to him and showed him the relevant paragraph in the general T&C and offered him his deposit back in full.

    Planet23 deposits and withdraws are safe and secure. We never denied players form their winnings. We offer our players only the best and we demand it from our entire stuff, which is available to our players 24/7.

    Also, I've posted my personal email on the site to make sure all players have a direct contact in case they have any problem. In many forums you can find my personal attention to things and personal comments from players being more than satisfied with our service.

    If I can help in any way to any of the forum members, please feel free to contact me.

    Thank you,

    Danny Lerner

    Planet23 Casino Manager

    www.planet23.com
    www.23partners.com

  8. #5
    Schankwart is offline Public Member
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    Now you are finally admitting that you did not publish the correct terms on your website but you still do not honor the payment. -Brilliant.

    I obeyed all terms that were published on the site by the time I played. If you have contradictionary terms all over your website than this is simply misleading, unfair and unprofessional!
    Any honest and professional online casino would honor the payment and correct the situation, so anything similar does not happen again.
    Your casino however tried to retroactively change the published terms for the welcome bonus, hoping to get through with it.

    This case is obvious.

    Thanks to WheretoBet and Mr. Noise for doing the right thing already! An article about my experience with this join will be composed this week.

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  10. #6
    danny23 is offline Sponsor Affiliate Program
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    Default Dear Schankwart

    I understand your comment, however the general T&C were not changed. Those terms specifically said that VP is excluded (as per bonus requirements). The problem you are referring to was in an inner page. All T&C are subject to the general T&C of the site. The fact that there was a mistake in one of our inner pages, doesn't mean that the T&C of the site were changed.

    I understand your point very well and we didn't deny your withdrawal of the bonus without checking it from every direction. Your deposit was returned in full after the T&C were clarified.

    I would like to clarify that we never deny our players from their money in any way. Our business ethic is very high and we don't hide behind the computer screen and behind false identities. We give our players direct line to our stuff with every problem they have.

    Danny Lerner

    Planet23 Casino Manager

    www.planet23.com
    www.23partners.com

  11. #7
    Schankwart is offline Public Member
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    It was not just an "inner page" as you claim it, but the general bonus rules (http://planet23.com/bonusrulesgeneral) of your casino. This section is linked to for your welcome bonuses and all other bonuses of Planet23 (http://planet23.com/promotions[). Your "regular terms" are only hidden at the very bottom of the homepage.

    Why do you publish the bonus terms on your website if they are not valid at all, as you claim?

    And yes, you may turn this around as you wish but it is a fact that you retroactively manipulated the bonus terms on your website. At least you admit this yourself by now after your colleagues kept trying to deny it.

    Your casino has lost any credibility and trustworthiness. Your games are buggy and you do not honor legit payments. I do not think this can be topped anymore.

  12. #8
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    Here's the thing Danny. People play in good faith. The casino gets their good faith automatically and without fail every time a deposit is made.

    So although I suspect that unless your terms were available on the way back machine or perhaps on a google cached page ... that it is likely the player recognized there would be a discrepancy and as such copied the terms which benefited their cause more ... fully expecting the scenario which has played out (if they won ... if they lost then it doesn't really matter eh?)

    But the thing is my friend ... is that you guys screwed up. If it says ANYWHERE on your site that the VP games could be played .. you need to honor the promise made even if it wasn't intended.

    Again I elude to good faith.

    Casinos thinking they can re-write the rules after the fact just because they screwed up appear both arrogant and to me obviously ignorant of the bigger picture because the casino has no ground to stand in the matter.

    You yourself admitted the discrepancy. How on earth is the player expected to be the one to take the short end of the stick because you guys screwed it up?

    Because of this particular situation being one where there was a mistake made and not an intentional screwing of a player .. and that the casino simply needs to open its eyes ... be a little less arrogant about telling a player they can't cash out because the casino made a mistake ... that if you guys pay the player I won't be seeking to blacklist you.

    Now before you go thinking I'm being unfair ... here's a tip which will assure this never happens again and to my knowledge not one casino on line does it.

    Simple. Its so simple I understand why they all missed it. Send some players thru before you go live with the bonus ... while you're paying for the player to do this for you ... also include in the deal that if they want to get paid then they must earn their money via by knowing the T&Cs and not allowing them any special privledges .. don't send them the specific T&Cs of a bonus ... let them find it on their own.

    Tell them they have to meet the requirements after finding them and that they're not allowed to cash out until they have earned a set amount (you can even put a cap on the amount they can win if so desired) ... then have them cash out the same way a player would ... using the same means a player would use from their location ...

    in this case it have saved you $1400 (minus the cost of the play) which to me would be worth the entire $1400 to have avoided the bad press but that's me.

    one last thing. Think how this might have gone if you'd went ahead and explained to the player the situation and then paid them ... Instead of being in here to defend an action which has no defense ... you'd likely be reading how this player was impressed with the professional approach to a bad situation and in light of the other stuff haunting top game right now ... if I were one of their casinos I'd feel way ahead of the game by being the casino known for paying even when there's extra issues ... because I imagine top game is going to see a loss of players but those that DO stick around ... will surely be looking for the TG powered casino with the best reputation.

    Pay the player and save getting blacklisted. I don't want to blacklist anybody but there are certain ethics which must be maintained and bait and switch is not going to cut it no matter whether it was by intention or otherwise.

    And that's exactly what it looks like when the mistake is corrected but not the casino being responsible for its mistake.
    Almost Here! How would you like to be able to get not just one sign up from your player, or even a couple, but every single casino they join from here on? I've a plan that can make that happen and it will likely also tell you every time the player is active within the casino.

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  14. #9
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    Wow. Yes, I agree with bb1. There is no real defense. It's unfortunate that the rules were incorrect but the player played with a certain expectation that must be honored. Pay, change the rules, learn from it, move on.

    On another note it's great to see you here adressing the mistake honestly Danny.

    I hope this can end with a positive outcome.

  15. #10
    slotplayer is offline Private Member
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    I'm a little tired today so I'm not too sharp but is that math even correct?

    Am I missing something?

    isn't 200% of $50 = $100 bonus? ($150 bonus is 300% of $50)
    ** First Deposit - 200% up to $1,000
    50 deposit + $150 bonus =200 * 12 =$2400?


    In the interest of fair gaming in order to cash out any amount of money you must wager at least twelve (12) times your play bonus, plus the deposit unless specifically stipulated in writing by an approved representative of Planet23 Casino. Once you receive the bonus, you cannot withdraw any amount from your account until you have met the wagering requirements. For example: Deposit $50 get $150 Free - minimum wagering is $3000. Deposit $200 get $600 Free - minimum wagering is $12000

  16. #11
    Schankwart is offline Public Member
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    Thanks for the input. Please however note that they would have never adressed this matter if I would not have written about it here.

    The "funny" part is that they messed up so badly when I was trying their casino to collect information for a review. I would not be surprised if other players were robbed by them as well (before they changed the bonus rules this week). Planet23 has not even gotten the real press yet as I only wrote about this matter in this forum so far.

    Good faith is the non-plus-ultra when gambling at any online casino. I simply played their welcome bonus and obeyed the bonus terms as confirmed by Planet23.

  17. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by slotplayer View Post
    I'm a little tired today so I'm not too sharp but is that math even correct?

    Am I missing something?

    isn't 200% of $50 = $100 bonus? ($150 bonus is 300% of $50)


    50 deposit + $150 bonus =200 * 12 =$2400?
    Despite you being tired your maths are clearly better than Planet23's, because yours are right and their's are wrong lol

    And this situation is completely indefensible by Planet23, the TopGame software isn't getting the best press these days and this isn't helping one jot.

    When you look at how much damage this post is going to do to their future business, if you work it out, paying $1400 when they were in the wrong would probably be a smaller price to pay than what their going to lose now this post is public.

    For me, TopGame are being removed from my site, i wasn't too keen on them from the start, and this for me is the final nail in their coffin.

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  19. #13
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    T &C's on the first page, inner page, whatever the case may be.
    the player made a deposit, followed the terms and conditions on your promotion page, which they all should say the same thing...you screwed up and now you should pay the player. he met the play through requirements.... pay the player!! $1,400 is not a whole lot of money to save some of your reputation... I have totally removed Top Gaming from my site because of missing symbols on 2 different games within a 2 month period. now this bait and switch crap?

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  21. #14
    offyourface is offline Private Member
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    I swear there are some great people in this industry, but at times I feel like I am in business with the biggest bunch of ******* crooks in the world. They have every move in the book, really they do. You small time nickel and dime outfits, pay the man his money.

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  23. #15
    lots0 is offline Former Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by danny23 View Post
    Dear GPWA members,

    My name is Danny and I'm the Casino manager at Planet23.com

    I've read the thread here and I would like to comment about it, as the story isn't accurate.
    Danny I would be careful who you are calling a liar, even of you try to do it in a non-offensive way.

    ***

    The software glitches are one thing... But this is not the first time your customer service has screwed up in a major way.

    It was not the players fault your site designers/webmaster are incompetent and can't get their act together.

    It is the casinos fault... and the casino should pay... very simple.
    If you guys at Planet are worried about the money, take it out of the wages of those responsible for making sure the T&C's are kept up to date.

    I know you guys at top game want to build a good reputation in the industry, but this sure as hell is not the way to go about it. Don't continue to let greed get the best of your business model or your reputation won't be worth a plugged nickel.

    One last thing Danny. Lately every time I have heard Top Games name brought up it is surrounded by angry players and affiliates... Not a good thing.

    @ Schankwart, If these guys are not wiling to make it good, I would think about filing a PaB over at Casinomeister if I were you. I think Bryan still has top game on probation... There might be some leverage there if you choose to use it.
    Last edited by lots0; 26 July 2009 at 7:58 pm. Reason: spelling

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  25. #16
    offyourface is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by danny23 View Post
    Dear GPWA members,

    Inside one of our inner pages, VP wasn't excluded like in the general terms and conditions. We spoke to our company's lawyers and consulted with Top Game as our operator and everyone agreed that the general terms and conditions overcome any other T&C in the site, which was a mistake in this case.
    So basically your saying that you put the terms on other pages just for fun hey? Obviously they don't have a purpose since you just revert to other pages when it fits your situation. Had this player lost his deposit and pointed out that he played a game that was excluded, would you be returning his deposit? Unlikely, we know!!! Why not just pull the old vague term out of your ass and tell him your not paying him because you declare he is a purple goat with a cakatoo feather coming out of his ear and you don't like that, so you will excercise your right not to pay for whatever reason management deems necessary.

    BTW, nice exposure your getting as a new program. Who is the rocket scientist that made this decision? Why is it so obvious to everyone but you guys? Pay the player, get on the idiot that can't do his job, fix it and move on in a positive light. Or at least have the common sense to do this when you see it posted in an affiliate forum, you know us small guys here who are your bread in butter. Good luck Danny, nothing personal but someone over there needs to get a clue and look at the big picture.

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  27. #17
    Schankwart is offline Public Member
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    Correct... It is casinos like Planet23 that ruin the reputation of this whole industry. There is no way to get rid of these establishments but I try my best to warn players & affiliates to stay away from certain places. I would feel much worse if I sent players there, compared to hunting my own payment now.

    I will see if this casino is eventually going to honor their debt and then decide how to proceed with them. There are plenty of options to chose from.

    So basically your saying that you put the terms on other pages just for fun hey?
    Right on.

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  29. #18
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    The casino made the mistake even the bonus rules page has the old term in cache....... you make the rules and the players have to obey the rules you make ..........so pay for your mistake not the player's.

    And comeon what's 1400 bucks for an online casino........looks you you're short on cash.............If I had to run the place I granted the player the money most likely planet23 got some good threads at CM.

    Now you do not.......Do not expect me to join your affiliate program last time you asked.....because players go first my friend.

    I wish Planet23 all the best, they need it.

    @Schankwart : Sorry man to hear they wanted to be cheap and sent you your deposit back.
    Live dealer games at golden tiger casino

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  31. #19
    Schankwart is offline Public Member
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    Planet23 is trying to ignore this matter and still have not paid the money due.
    They have zero interest in running an honest business and good affiliate relationships mean nothing to them, as shown in this thread.

    Today their casino manager Danny sent me another email, asking me to make another deposit in my account. I almost laughed but then.... hmmm.

    Anyways, I tried to be patient with this bunch but apparently the only option is the expose their actions and give it a good result in google rankings. It will take a little time but after all I will be glad to warn as many players from this casino as possible.

  32. #20
    Schankwart is offline Public Member
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    10 days ago this joint informed that they eventually decided to honor their debts. I however still have not been paid as of today.

    -to be continued-

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