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  1. #41
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    I hesitate to comment on other affiliate programs, due to a perceived conflict of interest. I mean constructive criticism.

    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielRome View Post
    .. I would also like to clarify the issue of tracking. This is not a tracking issue. The tracking works so that the last affiliate to refer the player did indeed "sell" the player to us. This is why the player did appear under your account. However, this is an issue of cross-marketing, which I believe trumps tracking.
    Not really, the tracking should automatically exclude players from affiliate account that will not get the credit. If you have to do it manually them there's too much confusion and will lead to these types of problems.

    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielRome View Post
    However, this is an issue of cross-marketing, which I believe trumps tracking.
    Now, you lost me on this one. When you said, "last affiliate to refer the player did indeed "sell" the player to us" saying that the "sale" is not as important as the "attempted sale" of the cross marketing program.

    I can understand your point of view from the beginning, but the TOS and cross marketing should have been discussed beforehand with the affiliates to give the option to intelligently invest their time.

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  3. #42
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    The only real way to settle it properly is for Rome to pay BOTH affiliate the $16K in revenue and suck up the loss forthe poor job they have done with terms and clearly stating them.

    Any earnings earned after this point in time then should be at a minimum be split between both affiliates in order to find a happy medium. Personally I'll be surprised if a happy medium is found as I don't have a lot of faith in anything related to Top Game nor its operators.

    Hopefully I'll be proven wrong and Gabriel will step up and do the right thing. I truly hope he does because otherwise he'll have no credibility with me or I suspect, any other affiliate who reads this thread now or in the future.

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  5. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo View Post
    How did you discover the error btw?
    I can tell you this mojo, we noticed the player in our account for probably 5 days. Of course the player was up $30K at this point and had us in the negatives. Like clock work once we noticed the player had lost it all back, we got an email shortly thereafter notifying us that the player was being removed from our account.

  6. #44
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    I keep reading how "Rome" is stating that it would be an injustice to the "other affiliate".....how the hell does the other affiliate even know about this????
    If the player is signed up under "offyourface"....which obviously they were, thats how he found out how much commission is being stolen from him, so that says to me that this "other" affiliate had no idea about this player, unless "the saint people at Rome" called them up to say, "listen, we appreciate your work soooooo much, that we have found out that we owe you 16K which got messed up with another affiliate"......YEAH RIGHT!.....

    Like I have said since this casino opened up, i do not trust them or what they say and this just proves it even more. I do not believe there is another affiliate, I 100% beleive they are keeping this money and trying to find a way to "sell" their reasons to the affiliate world. THere is no way this company let another affiliate know about an older player switching to another casino of theres and they want to "give them a present" and attach them to their affiliate account so they can pay them a whole lot of money!!

    Also, this player was not "cross marketed", in his own words Gabreal said, they put a bonus chip in there account, which means there already was an account, and when this player signed up at Diceland, they probably did not even realize it was Rome casinos sister site, just a new casino to try out, ....Rome casino did all the "reaching out" to this player and now they want to keep them for themselves and pay no one. Period!
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  8. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by WagerX View Post

    Now, you lost me on this one. When you said, "last affiliate to refer the player did indeed "sell" the player to us" saying that the "sale" is not as important as the "attempted sale" of the cross marketing program.
    Agreed. This is not even cross marketing. It is typical conversion efforts. How can you cross promote a player that is already signed up?

    Like I have said since this casino opened up, i do not trust them or what they say and this just proves it even more. I do not believe there is another affiliate, I 100% beleive they are keeping this money and trying to find a way to "sell" their reasons to the affiliate world.
    This is so poorly done that even if there really is another affiliate we'll never know for sure. No matter what 3rd party looks things over. 'Another affiliate' could, in fact, be in house. Or someones uncles friend.

    Rome, you messed up really bad here. Pay this affiliate and give him back his player!

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  10. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by GabrielRome View Post
    If we were not to credit the original affiliate with this player, I believe would be doing her an extreme injustice.
    DICTIONARY MEANING FOR INJUSTICE = an act that inflicts undeserved hurt. injustice applies to any act that involves unfairness to another or violation of one's rights .

    Perhaps you need to read this definition before you use it. If you know what it is, at least talk about how it is a Super Extreme Injustice to screw me out of this money and not just the other affiliate. Lets see if it applies to me to.

    an act that inflicts undeserved hurt - You are undeservedly hurting my business, my wallet, and my attitude. Do I deserve this because I done my job and sent a player your way? Do I deserve this because a player I sent deposited $50k?

    injustice applies to any act that involves unfairness to another or violation of one's rights - I would say that this act by you and your company involves an act of unfairness to me alot more so then the other affiliate. At least the affiliate got paid for the work she done, which is promote Rome casino. I done a review, sent a player, had the player deposit, got paid $16,000 commision on $50,000, then got $16,ooo taken right back away from me. THAT IS INJUSTICE!!!

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  12. #47
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    Well said Giggles! I wonder if they would have done anything if the stats remained in the negative? I suspect this thread wouldn't even exsist if that were the case, at least not untill earnings were due!

    I'm disgusted by the entire thing and really feel offyourface has been dealt a serious injustice!

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  14. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by giggles7p View Post
    Also, this player was not "cross marketed", in his own words Gabreal said, they put a bonus chip in there account, which means there already was an account, and when this player signed up at Diceland, they probably did not even realize it was Rome casinos sister site, just a new casino to try out,
    Good point Giggles. How did Rome put a bonus in the players Diceland account unless there already was an account. Rome doesn't create accounts at their sister casinos for players on their own do they? That wouldn't be good.

    Most of these Top Game Casinos will approve a free chip for new sign-ups to affiliates that ask fo it. I would be surprised if the affiliate that the player is tagged to for Diceland didn't also offer new players a free chip. (Just like Rome said they offered on the telephone).

    I don't know for sure how long there has been cross-marketing terms in place at casinos. I remember long threads at CAP about Rival when they first started cross marketing. I remember some discussions on this with other casinos as well.

    Affiliates didn't get upset about the casinos cross marketing because they were losing players to other affiliates that way. If a player comes into a sister casino tagged to another affiliate then it wouldn't be considered cross-marketed.

    The whole issue with affiliates and casinos that were cross marketing was that they didn't like the idea that casinos could take the contact information from players we sent them, to use to get the players signed up at a sister casino of theirs and at the sister casino they wouldn't have to pay any affiliate.

    If Rome was allowed to take the players affiliates sent them, and send them to Diceland by their cross marketing efforts so the player had no affiliate tag on the Diceland account then Rome/Diceland could offer the player incentives and promotions to play at Diceland instead of Rome and Rome wouldnt' have to pay the affiliate commisions!

    Casinos were doing this. Grand Prive did it all the time. Affiliates got mad. So the honest programs and affiliates came up with the solution that the affiliate who sent the player to the casino would get the player AND NOT THE CASINO. This was to keep the casino honest. It wasn't to create huge problems like this. The whole thinking behind the cross marketing rule was based upon players with NO affiliate tag.

    IMO, this whole thing is so obviously wrong.

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  16. #49
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    They should put a column in their stats for money they have taken from you. This is what I see when looking at my stats right now for last month. It shows up when I go back and look at stats for 8/1 - 9/1 but it was not showing up last month(last night) when I first sign in and they show stats. I guess they forgot to completely remove the player because he is still showing up in my history? HMMMMM???? The net gaming is also lower then it was which just means she won a little. Also, according to the stats in mine that are shown below, she has not deposited again since this became an issue. Little odd after depositing 62 times. I also thought she got as high as $49k in deposits by herself, but it could have been $47k. Are these the stats from before they moved her to the other affiliate? Who knows since they have decided to manually mess with my stats and take this player from me. Amazing how they can let a situation become such a cluster@#$% and still not get it right.

  17. #50
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    The issue here is, I guess, who the player belongs to. Now, as far as I, and pretty much every affiliate is concerned, the last referer gets the player.

    This is regardless of cross marketing, player promotions, hiring a team of midget h***kers to dance naked in front of you or anything else.

    Whoever converts the player, gets the player. That's how it works.

    And it works this way because while we can only guess at a potential player's intent before they deposit; we know for certain that if they do make a deposit, the site they visited previously is largely responsible for this.

    Rome/Diceland's argument here is facile in the extreme, although I suspect it is well-intentioned.

    Now, I'm a big believer in what CWC and others do when they send out promos to players promoting their Lucky Red Casino and other new casinos.

    If those were players that I originally referred as an affiliate, then I want to profit from their play at Lucky Red and so on.

    However, if those players choose not to sign up immediately via those links and only do so after checking out affiliate portals, then that is the affiliate that gets the player. They converted them, they get the commission.

    I think Rome Partners are trying to be honourable here, but whoever the last referer was, should get the player.

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  19. #51
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    Now, I'm a big believer in what CWC and others do when they send out promos to players promoting their Lucky Red Casino and other new casinos.

    If those were players that I originally referred as an affiliate, then I want to profit from their play at Lucky Red and so on.

    However, if those players choose not to sign up immediately via those links and only do so after checking out affiliate portals, then that is the affiliate that gets the player. They converted them, they get the commission.
    I agree with that completely, but we have debated that very issue here a number of times over the years and not all affiliates feel that way, so don't be surprised or offended if/when you talk to affiliates that do not agree with that 100%.

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  20. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by tryme View Post
    Now, I'm a big believer in what CWC and others do when they send out promos to players promoting their Lucky Red Casino and other new casinos.

    If those were players that I originally referred as an affiliate, then I want to profit from their play at Lucky Red and so on.

    However, if those players choose not to sign up immediately via those links and only do so after checking out affiliate portals, then that is the affiliate that gets the player. They converted them, they get the commission.

    I think Rome Partners are trying to be honourable here, but whoever the last referer was, should get the player.
    Yes everyone wants their cake and wants to eat it too.

    If we sale a player we want them for life - If we make a sale we want the player. Obviously in some instances we can't have it both ways or can we?

    Well of course we can at individual properties and in all instances where they were internally cross-promoted! However if a secondary salesman closes a secondary deal - they should get the credit! It might make for more complex stats, but it can and should be done.

    As for Rome being honorable - I haven't a clue if thats the case - for all I know they seen a big payout and didn't want to pay it so come up with this ****-poor excuse. This manual correction BS is just that BS!

  21. #53
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    Gabriel has emailed me and let me know that they are final on their answer and that they are indeed giving the player to the other affiliate. They basicly are telling affiliates that they dont really care what you think about the situation or what you put here in this thread. If they did then they would have given the player back to me.

    Gabriel did also say that he would like to try to make this right with me if we could work something out. If they were to at least give me some kind of good compensation then I would be able to just let the situation be over with. I am waiting on a call from him so that we can talk and try to come to some kind of resolution. We will see if they really try to make this right or if they come to me with something real weak.

  22. #54
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    Please keep us updated on what if anything is done to compensate you for this player.

    The problem is, a player like that has a long term value that will likely never be compensated for, and it still hasn't been proven that another affiliate is actually getting compensated for this player have we? (due to privacy etc this would be difficult...but it makes one wonder)

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  24. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by smv80 View Post
    Gabriel has emailed me and let me know that they are final on their answer and that they are indeed giving the player to the other affiliate. They basicly are telling affiliates that they dont really care what you think about the situation or what you put here in this thread. If they did then they would have given the player back to me.

    Gabriel did also say that he would like to try to make this right with me if we could work something out. If they were to at least give me some kind of good compensation then I would be able to just let the situation be over with. I am waiting on a call from him so that we can talk and try to come to some kind of resolution. We will see if they really try to make this right or if they come to me with something real weak.
    Do we know that there was another affiliate that received these earnings? Is there a mediator involved?

    I would like a mediator to step in here to confirm that 'another affiliate' received these earnings please.

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  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo View Post
    Do we know that there was another affiliate that received these earnings? Is there a mediator involved?

    I would like a mediator to step in here to confirm that 'another affiliate' received these earnings please.
    There has been no mediator Mojo. The last I heard my brother was waiting on a call from Gabriel at Rome which never seems to come. I am also trying to hook up with the owner of top game and talk with him about this mess which we along with 99% of the rest of the affiliate community consider to be outright theft from Rome.

    However in the interim I would like to see a mediator step in here to confirm that another affiliate did receive these commissions. But even if this is confirmed I want to reiterate that this will not change our position as we feel there was no basis whatsoever to play twinkle fingers with our affiliate account.

    Either way I will be sure to update this thread accordingly once we make any kind of headway. Thanks for following up Mojo.

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  28. #57
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    Sorry to hear it offyourface. I'll never touch these yahoo's after reading this thread! In fact they are going on the Blacklisted section and will warn players to stay clear of this casino completly.

    Hopefully many more affiliates will do the same.

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  30. #58
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    Jasper, please refrain from posting link exchange requests in unrelated threads.
    Last edited by universal4; 16 September 2009 at 11:48 am. Reason: unrelated

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    Firstly, I would like to say I stumbled upon this site looking for something else and when I read this post, I signed up just so I could comment.
    What happen to honesty and dignity!

    I believe they have out right took your money for themselves, period! That mess about once you sign up through an affiliate than you belong to them, bull....! They made that up midstream to swindle you out of your rightful thousands!

    MY PHILOSOPHY:
    A sales rep at a kiosk(affiliate) sells me a great cell phone/plan through Sprint(Rome), I really like it at first(monies worth) but after a couple of years I am tired of the same phone, plan...(not really doing much for me) I would like to get a new phone/plan so I go to the Sprint(Rome) website and search to see if there is anything that pleases me and I even speak to a sales rep in live chat still not sold on staying(playing) with them. I then go back to the same kiosk(affliate) to see if there was some special magic they had to keep me talking(playing) with them, but nope same ol' phones(games) and plans, nothing to keep my interest(not winning)! So I decide to shop around and I stumble upon Verizon(Diceland) website and it looks so good, new phones and plans with great promotional offers that are sure to be a winner. So I decide I am going to give them a try, so I visit a sales rep at a kiosk (affiliate) to make sure someone gets commission for the sell. From there the deal is sealed!!!!! I make my first payment(deposit) and I am off and talking/texting(playing)! Now, does that payment (deposit) go to the Sprint kiosk rep(affiliate) or the Verizon kiosk rep(affiliate)????? It is simple, it rightfully and only goes to the rep who made the sell! The first affiliate already got their money when the made the sell. This is a whole new sell, not connected whatsoever!!!

    I would be outraged

    Shame on Rome Casino

    I truly hope you do every thing in your power to make them give it up

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  33. #60
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    Scary situation offyourface poaching players I heard goes on more frequently than one would expect.

    Maybe things will all work out?

    greek39

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