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  1. #61
    MichaelCorfman's Avatar
    MichaelCorfman is offline GPWA Executive Director
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo View Post
    Do we know that there was another affiliate that received these earnings? Is there a mediator involved?

    I would like a mediator to step in here to confirm that 'another affiliate' received these earnings please.
    Since Rome indicated previously in this thread that they would be willing to share information with me as an independent third party, and since this whole thing remains a mess, I will ask Rome to provide me with documentation about the situation so I can report here on the nature of what transpired based on the information I am given.

    Michael
    GPWA Executive Director, Casino City CEO, Friend to the Village Idiot

    Resources for Affiliates: iGamingDirectory.com, iGamingAffiliatePrograms.com, GamingMeets.com

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  3. #62
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    How do we know that any information Rome gives is "true info"? I mean i am sure its easy enough to make up an account with a fictionally person and put all the required info into it to make it look like this person signed up via whereever, played when and with how much, etc...

    I mean how can we really believe any info they give us? Even a player can come here and say they are the person who deposited all the funds, and how do we know thats facts? Anyone can say they are the person, if Rome pays them to do it, or makes up an account for one of their managers to pretend in..

    IMO, we can't trust anything they say or show...period.
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  5. #63
    GFPC is offline Private Member
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    As some have suggested here. The thing i think is the best to do is pay both affiliates for this player. It makes the most sense.

    Since the other affiliate is no where to be found and would likely disagree that the 16 K should be now taken away from them its obvious the best solution is to pay off OFF YOUR FACE.

    Its no ones fault. Certainly not either affiliates. And there is a clear problem with the way ROME has behaved or even communicated their terms.

    IN this case Everyone wins by them paying out both affiliates. Here is why.

    If another affiliate does not exist, then the 16 goes to OFF Your FACE as it should. He needs to be paid that amount he was taking away.

    If the other affiliate exists, likely they will argue terms and conditions state cross selling counts ect... and the argument would be against that it was never made clear.

    Now even if you pay off Both affiliaes ROME still makes a profit and can now fix their terms and have both affiliates still happy and working as usual.

    Lets face it. The affilaites on this account make what.???

    35 - 40 % of the players losses!!!! Even by paying off both affiliates assuming the other one exists... The most that is paid out is 80%.

    Rome still makes 20% PROFIT from this mess, and can correct their errors for a later date. Even ROME themselves have posted here they are willing to alter their terms.... which indicated to me they agree it is problematic.

    They have admitted their own error!!!!!

    In this case they need to pay off both affiliaes and fix their terms so this will not happen again.

    If they do not do this.. here's what happens. The only person who will be happy will the affiliate (if they exist) who got the payment from the affiliate who got it revolked... Its a bad taste and horrible thing to get done to you.

    Rome will loss credibility, TRUST, and the affiliate who in likelyhood will only brinig them more WHALES in the future.

    OFF YOUR FACE is a strong affilaite and i am sure over the course of time will bring in more money to ROME in the future.

    TO put him out in cold and slap his face the way they have is wrong. They stand to loss alot more then 16 if they do not do what is right.

    Steve


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  7. #64
    sparky1 is offline Private Member
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    Ahh.. seems like I don't have the privileges to see that post, don't know what that's about.

    I can guess though that the post was saying that 5 days in unacceptable, not to mention this kind of delay. I understand, and I can only repeat that we did not ignore this issue, but without money from our processors there was little we could do, we had to keep paying our overheads and running our business, we are trying to do something about this. I'm sorry about your problems and will try to put you on highest priority if your situation is so dire.

    Noah

    I'd suggest the real reason you got screwed offyourface is spelled out right here! Considering they claim to not have recieved payments form thier payment processing people I can see how having to come up with $16K to pay you was the motivating factor in the sudden change and your rightful player being placed under some ficticious affiliate account!!

    I'm wondering why Noah has yet to respond to this thread and properly address why your player was stolen from you!

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  9. #65
    MichaelCorfman's Avatar
    MichaelCorfman is offline GPWA Executive Director
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFPC View Post
    Now even if you pay off Both affiliaes ROME still makes a profit and can now fix their terms and have both affiliates still happy and working as usual.

    Lets face it. The affilaites on this account make what.???

    35 - 40 % of the players losses!!!! Even by paying off both affiliates assuming the other one exists... The most that is paid out is 80%.

    Rome still makes 20% PROFIT from this mess, and can correct their errors for a later date. Even ROME themselves have posted here they are willing to alter their terms.... which indicated to me they agree it is problematic.
    I believe you made a lot of very good points in your post. However, I do believe the financial analysis here is not correct.

    The analysis assumes that the only expenses associated with the revenue earned on the player are the payments to affiliates. However, those are not the only expenses. Casino operators must pay a wide variety of fees to others in order to operate a casino. There is at least one other major expense and that is the license fee to the software provider that is typically a pretty decent chunk of the revenue earned from the player.

    Anyway, like I said, I believe there is real merit to the points you raised in your post. But it is also certainly the case that the resolution you suggest would result in a loss and not a profit.

    Michael
    GPWA Executive Director, Casino City CEO, Friend to the Village Idiot

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  11. #66
    sparky1 is offline Private Member
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    Thanks for the post Micheal and good to see you also seem to never sleep...lol.

  12. #67
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    Thanks Michael,

    True i see what you are saying. It makes sense that other expenses would be incurred and at that point i wrote this, it slipped my mind.

    Lets assume the 16K was 40 percent of rev share. This would indicate to me that the player lost $40K.

    A player losing $40 K would have brought in $24K profit. Minus of course other fees like you said.

    If you pay both affiliates assuming 2nd one exists, you have paid out $32K.

    That leaves 8K left for expenses. Now of course i do not know what they need to pay out of this for other matters, but their losses should not be to high compared to the LOSS of "OFFYOURFACE"

    He is the one who has taken the brunt of all this.

    In another way, by not paying OFFYOURFACE he will on most accounts stop promoting them and never sending players there again.

    I notice his sites in many top positions in google for strong search terms. His traffic alone is very valuable to ROME. They would continue to make money from his site.

    By him removing them its gotta hurt some. They loss profit (expected profit) and there future earnings are less.

    Not to mention the amount of affiliates here (strong ones) will see this and add ROME to their blacklisted sites. They will boycott.

    ROME will get a bad public image, and google will index all these pages showing ROME does not pay their affiliates.

    As you see in their thread they have processor issues, and have not paid many affililiates.

    Assumptions are going wild as we speak.

    I would think the best and sound thing to do, is take the heat. Pay off the affililiates and work a deal with OFFYOURFACE.

    He already stands to loss the expected rev for this player in the future unless they put him back to his affiliate tag.

    So i think minimally, they at least owe him what he earned before they took the player away. And i think OFFYOURFACE would appreciate that.

    They then can move forward with there new terms and new processors and become a positive force again.

    As we speak many affiliates are concerned and will stop promoting them.

    Because they done this to OFFYOURFACE i would not promote them. Others have shown the same resolve....

    They stand to loss future profit. Which to me means profit right now.

    But you are right there are many other costs i didn't realize until you pointed them out...

    Reputation will either make them or break them in my eyes. I would hoe they don't want to be known as another CPAYS (as chips would say - CNOPAYS).

    Thanks Michael for the insight!!

    Cheers

    Steve


    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelCorfman View Post
    I believe you made a lot of very good points in your post. However, I do believe the financial analysis here is not correct.

    The analysis assumes that the only expenses associated with the revenue earned on the player are the payments to affiliates. However, those are not the only expenses. Casino operators must pay a wide variety of fees to others in order to operate a casino. There is at least one other major expense and that is the license fee to the software provider that is typically a pretty decent chunk of the revenue earned from the player.

    Anyway, like I said, I believe there is real merit to the points you raised in your post. But it is also certainly the case that the resolution you suggest would result in a loss and not a profit.

    Michael


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  14. #68
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    This is utter BS, Stop trying to delay things and making excuses.

    It is Rome Casino that has made mistakes, not the affiliate. END OF STORY

    Do what is right and pay them both out, You guys stuffed up regardless of who owns the player.

    Pay out to both affiliates or you will lose alot of sites that have you up, Which will in turn cost you alot more than 32,000


    Pay now and stop making excuses, There shouldn't have to be any third party involved here, If Rome chooses not to honor this then they are out right con artists.

    Pay these guys or be Boycotted

    You won't be on our sites anyway solely because of this situation, I don't trust yous and what would stop yous taking a player off our account.
    Jamie Blake
    Skype: wga-jamie


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  16. #69
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    Let's just assume someone got ripped off and it needs to fixed ASAP. No complicated accounting just pay the man.

    greek39

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  18. #70
    offyourface is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by GFPC View Post

    In another way, by not paying OFFYOURFACE he will on most accounts stop promoting them and never sending players there again.
    Yea, heaven forbid the first month they don't make any money on this player or maybe come close to breaking even. Then keep both affiliates happy and make their dividends on the coming months from this monster player. This may still happen, I just wish for their sake they wouldn't have punched their own brand in the gut during the process. It just doesn't seem like they were looking at the big picture at all when they told me and my bro that their minds had been made up on what they are doing with this player.

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  20. #71
    sparky1 is offline Private Member
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    Well I think they are beginning to realize the damage the 2 threads that are ongoing are doing to thier reputation with affiliates. Hopefully offyourface they will give you a decent settlement that allows you to get what you are owed and monthly earnings off this player.

    I think anything less and most affiliates will just write them off and refuse to promote them let alone add them to thier black list...that alone will cst them 1000x more than what is at stake right now.

    Keep us posted!

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  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelCorfman View Post
    Since Rome indicated previously in this thread that they would be willing to share information with me as an independent third party, and since this whole thing remains a mess, I will ask Rome to provide me with documentation about the situation so I can report here on the nature of what transpired based on the information I am given.

    Michael
    I think that if there was to be a mediator that you would be the best candatite Michael. Thank you for taking the time to offer.

    However, it would be a daunting task as you would have to be assured that the results are true.

    Do you think that is possible?

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  24. #73
    MichaelCorfman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo View Post
    I think that if there was to be a mediator that you would be the best candatite Michael. Thank you for taking the time to offer.

    However, it would be a daunting task as you would have to be assured that the results are true.

    Do you think that is possible?
    I think the degree of confidence I could have in the results would depend on the nature of the information I was provided with and the degree of trust I was able to establish around the information. And the degree of confidence the community would have would be based on whether my description of the process I went through was deemed reliable from the perspective of the community. So I think the result could be a high level of trust or a low level of trust, and that it is not possible to judge what would be appropriate ahead of time.

    Michael
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  26. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelCorfman View Post
    I think the degree of confidence I could have in the results would depend on the nature of the information I was provided with and the degree of trust I was able to establish around the information. And the degree of confidence the community would have would be based on whether my description of the process I went through was deemed reliable from the perspective of the community. So I think the result could be a high level of trust or a low level of trust, and that it is not possible to judge what would be appropriate ahead of time.

    Michael
    It is difficult to read that Michael. Simply, we would need to know, in your expert opinion, that the results that were provided by Rome were true to the best of your ability. Otherwise we do the original poster, the affiliate, a great diservice.

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  28. #75
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    As others have pointed out, it is going to be difficult to know whether anything has been doctored or not. That being said, I do appreciate any time your willing to put in here Michael.

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  30. #76
    GFPC is offline Private Member
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    I would like to know more on whats happening in all this.

    I for one support these affiliates fully and intend on giving my full support pending the outcome.

    If i do not see them being treated fair i will do all i can to inform my whole database and put them on all my sites as a non paying casino group.

    Just thought about it more and felt it was my duty here to show my support.

    I have had support from many of the affiliates here so in return i am offering mine.

    The reason i say this, is because ROME was one group we discussed promoting on several sites...

    Now were not so sure.

    Steve


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  32. #77
    smv80 is offline Private Member
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    Default Still No Call.

    Time for an update from all of you that continue to show your support. I have sent 2 emails to Gabriel in the last 10 days or so and I can not even get a reply to them. He is simply avoiding this situation and there is no other explanation that can be given. I sent an email on the 15th and the 22nd and pasted them below. There has still been no response to either.

    Email from the 15th
    Hello Gabriel. I am still waiting on that call. Please call me tomarrow at some time. If you are not able to then please call me on Thursday. We really need to get this squared away as soon as possible. If you check the GPWA thread, you will see that there is still people wondering about this situation. Many affiliates would like to see proof that these funds were in fact paid to another affiliate and I think you need to show it to someone, maybe a mediator. Anyways, please call me or just send me an email with what you are offering to give me to settle this situation. I hope to talk to you sooner then later.

    Email from the 22nd
    Are we going to try to work something out or not. Either give me a call or send me an email please.

    Not only can I not get Gabriel to call me or respond to an email, but the owner of Top Game was also supposed to call Offyourface (Kevin) and talk to him about the situation. He called once but it was missed. He never called back even after plans were made for another call.

    What should I do now??? Continue to wait for a call that may not even come? Start to release a news story every day about what kind of people run these 2 casinos? Blast them in every forum I can and let other affiliates and players know how they run their business?

    For those that dont know, Rome casino has ran into a little financial trouble because of a processor that supposedly holding a large sum of their money. They have kept this pretty quiet, but the other affiliate mngr that isnt Gabriel (dont know the name) has been letting the cat out of the bag. And there is now another payment thread about them that talks about this.

    I guess that it is another coincidence that this situation happened literally a week or two after the financial trouble? Maybe it is just another reason why they have not called me. Maybe they can not afford to give me any kind of money right now so they avoid the call for more then 2 weeks.

    All I know is that it seems that Gabriel has in no way, shape, or form tried to contact me since the 12th to resolve this matter. In fact, below is what he sent me on the 12th.

    Email from me sent on the 10th
    Hey Gabriel. I still did not hear from you this week. Are we still going to try to work this out or what. You can even send me an email with what you got to make it easier.
    Response on the 12th
    Sorry for not calling, it's been hectic here workwise, and my brother's wedding is coming up and I was in charge of the bachelor party (it took me about a day to recover). I can give you a call tomorrow if you like.

    I am about to respond to the other thread about Rome payments on here where Noah said that they have not been ignoring me. They have not responded to anything I have sent since the email above sent on the 12th. They are simply lying if they say they have. Thanks again to all those that are contributing to this thread. I will keep you updated with anything new.

  33. #78
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    Common guys, everyone is ready to put this issue to rest. Can we please get someone from Rome to contact either me or steven sometime in the near future?

  34. #79
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    Default All emails from Since Sept 2

    I want to point out one other thing I noticed about the emails from Gabriel. Here it is first.

    FROM ME ON SEPT 2
    Hey Gabriel. Is it yours final choice to screw me out of this money after reading GPWA and realizing that in no way, shape, or form are you doing the right thing? I really need to know if there is still a chance to get my money or not so that I can do what I need to do on my end. I hope that your company realizes that I should not be the one getting screwed here and that you guys come back with a different decision. Please let me know or at the very minimum, make another post at the GPWA and let the answer be known in there. Thanks and I will talk to you soon.
    RESPONSE FROM GABRIEL ON SEPT 3
    Hey Steve,
    Let me start by saying that we stand by the fact that this player belongs to the original affiliate, and we intend to pay her for the player.
    That being said, because of my relationship with Kevin, I may be able to convince Josh to compromise on this and reach some sort of conclusion.
    If you are interested, we could discuss this over the phone today.


    First funny thing is how they only want to settle this because of their relationship with Kevin. It is clear that you have to be a big affiliate or have a great relationship with them in order to get help. He basicly says that if I was not his brother then I definitely would not get ****.

    Then he did not call of course. I sent another email on Sept 8th.
    Email FROM ME on Sept 8th
    Hey Gabriel. Can you please give me a call today with what you plan on offering me for that lost player. ##########
    RESPONSE FROM GBRIEL ON SEPT 8th
    Hey Steve, I might not be able to call till tomorrow, got 2 more meetings today and it's already 6:15 here. It's okay if we do this tomorrow?
    MY RESPONSE ON SEPT 8th
    No problem. Talk to you then.

    Guess What??? No call. Our next talk was the one from the 12th in my last post.
    Last edited by smv80; 24 September 2009 at 10:14 pm.

  35. #80
    GFPC is offline Private Member
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    With this amount of time passed it seems obvious they do not want to pay you. It looks like the statements were made in order to make sure Kevin(a well known and respected - big affiliate) keeps the traffic flowing to them.

    Lets face it if both Kevin and you remove their programs they loss alot more money in the long run.

    To ignore you like this, is ignoring him and basically saying I no longer want your traffic....

    If it were me and my family they would be removed, and i would go a campaign to inform every player and affiliate that they do not pay.

    The amount of websites you guys have that are on page one in GOOGLE pointing much traffic to TOP Gaming is so powerful.....

    I would use it to stop all traffic and create a warning to all players and affiliates..

    Let google do all the work!!!! See how they feel about that.

    Press release the crap out of this.... to bascially show

    ROME = non payment.

    They would lose many thousands of dollars.

    I feel for you buddy!!! I would have no problem adding them to my blacklist if you guys needed my support!!

    I stand behind you and Kevin 100 percent.

    Steve


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