Self-excluded players, their deposits & possible revenue for the casino & affiliate

[vardan]

I've created a new thread where I am going to post more details and information about the issue I have with the affiliate program for 138 sportsbook and casino related with the self-excluded player.

All posts and any feedback is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[Sherlock]

What if a player signs up and loses a million? The sportsbook or casino can detag him, get the money and notify(or not) the affiliate that the player has self-excluded. Now go and ask them to prove it.

Yes, they can do it and I think most will just do it. I trust only few would not detag 7 figures loser. Those who did not detag high 5 and 6 figures losers.

Only the words are not sufficient, there must be another mechanism for such cases. The programs started to demand our ID cards and passports, they want to know every important detail about us, so why I, as a business partner can't demand transparency?

There is no mechanism for justice in this world. You either have power or not. Affiliates do not have any power, so we are being ****** like cheap whores. Rather realize who we are or who we gradually became. Stick with programs that have the integrity. The rest is just a test.

Many years ago, when bookies were not so rich, so they could buy tv ads and when there was overall competition, so UK bookies tried to get to USA and US(Caribbean) tried to go to Asia and Asian tried for Europe and no one gave a **** about regulations affiliates had some power.

Now we have divided and monopolized markets with very strong players who on the top ideologically collude how to rip off players. One program comes with one s.hit (quotas, retroactive changes, tickboxes to agree with rectal probes, straight thieveries) and other follow soon.

Honestly I do not know what you still expect. At least you named the program. There is no mechanism to prove even by the few honest stupid programs who do not steal yet.

[vardan]

There is no mechanism for justice in this world. You either have power or not. Affiliates do not have any power, so we are being ****** like cheap whores.

Have we became so lazy to protect our businesses? Yes, we are businessmen and what we are doing is called business in the global and rich gambling sector. Almost every business needs protection, different institutions that protect small and big businesses, new founded companies, there are financial system mediators, etc.

We don't have any mechanism because we are not interested in it or we are not very consistent. For example the mechanism could be created by an organization or a union which we could create to protect our interests.

Last year we were discussing if we need a union for gambling affiliates or not. The decision is in our hands, we have to be prepared to the changes we see and feel on our skins. If the governments oblige the gambling sector to be regulated and put them in the law filed, and we are escaping from there, then the programs have more power to press us and can do anything behind the opportunities and wholes the law gives them, for example the privacy law in my case. In my opinion, if we had a legal organization who had lawyers and specialists, it would be very difficult for them to face with an organization than a sole affiliate.

Honestly I do not know what you still expect.

I expect either an official document that the player had been refunded or my commission. I have an idea how they can prove what I want to be proved without breaking any privacy rule or disclose personal details of the player, let they first show they will resolve the problem and their real faces, then I will show the way.

Also I expect that the affiliates be warned about the program: I have noticed that ultimately many of us started to push them in more visible positions on our websites, these affiliates have the right to know what may happen. The program has the chance to be here and resolve all the doubts, otherwise their reputation will be harmed. I will continue posting in the new thread dedicated to 138Partners from my experience, I hope it will prevent many similar cases and giving up in this situation would be an enormous error.

[Renee]

I have an idea how they can prove what I want to be proved without breaking any privacy rule or disclose personal details of the player, let they first show they will resolve the problem and their real faces, then I will show the way.

Well Renee, as a multiple Best Affiliate Manager Award Winner and respected affiliate manager do you really think that the phrase "If you don't trust the affiliate program, don't work with them" is correct to use here? The trust is not constant, it can be lost or gained along the time depending on many factors.

It is not very clear to me what you mean by saying "That's the only option."? Do you mean to think of something that can prove the fact without breaking the privacy rule or to not work with the program if I don't trust them? Please clarify that for me, I have answers for both of them.

Anyway, I have to mention, that only you as an affiliate manager responded to my thread, much appreciated. I am sure that many aff managers have read this and haven't said anything, because this situation can happen to them, too and publicly posted opinions can work against them later.

Yes I stand by what I said. Every person has their own intuition. If something doesn't feel right to me, I don't do it. This is your business as you said. My awards or what people think of me have nothing to do with this situation. If someone doesn't trust me, they also should not work with me. I won't be offended because I know who I am as a person. It's business and affiliates need to do what is right for them.

You mentioned above that you have a way they can prove it to you without breaking their security and privacy - why not just tell them so you can get the proof you want? Not doing that, but rather posting here about it seems like a waste of time that could be better spent doing other things. I replied because you asked a question that I had an answer to, but if you have a solution I feel I'm wasting my time helping here.

Good luck.

[Sherlock]

Have we became so lazy to protect our businesses? Yes, we are businessmen and what we are doing is called business in the global and rich gambling sector. Almost every business needs protection, different institutions that protect small and big businesses, new founded companies, there are financial system mediators, etc.

We don't have any mechanism because we are not interested in it or we are not very consistent. For example the mechanism could be created by an organization or a union which we could create to protect our interests.

Last year we were discussing if we need a union for gambling affiliates or not. The decision is in our hands, we have to be prepared to the changes we see and feel on our skins. If the governments oblige the gambling sector to be regulated and put them in the law filed, and we are escaping from there, then the programs have more power to press us and can do anything behind the opportunities and wholes the law gives them, for example the privacy law in my case. In my opinion, if we had a legal organization who had lawyers and specialists, it would be very difficult for them to face with an organization than a sole affiliate.



I expect either an official document that the player had been refunded or my commission. I have an idea how they can prove what I want to be proved without breaking any privacy rule or disclose personal details of the player, let they first show they will resolve the problem and their real faces, then I will show the way.

Also I expect that the affiliates be warned about the program: I have noticed that ultimately many of us started to push them in more visible positions on our websites, these affiliates have the right to know what may happen. The program has the chance to be here and resolve all the doubts, otherwise their reputation will be harmed. I will continue posting in the new thread dedicated to 138Partners from my experience, I hope it will prevent many similar cases and giving up in this situation would be an enormous error.

I do not think I became lazy. It simply is not worth of my time and effort. I can do other things on this planet than to make such battles. I did not fight with my exbitch about money, I am reluctant to fight a law battles here. It is not my world. I was considering the skybet, but when I take the time needed + legal costs x uncertainty how much i might get back, my conclusion is that I will be better off doing something else. Just today I found bug in creatives of one book, it was thee for 2 years, so conversions were crippled. That book makes me more than stupid skybet. It is really better to focus on my work.

I do not care about justice. I care about profit. Fu.ck justice. We all abuse people in gambling niche or in capitalism. No need to play victims, even when we probably are this time.

That is why I do not think affiliate union will work. People here are individuals. We are not steelworkers. We wanted to be independent and the successful ones are. Most of us can count, that affiliate union would be great, but better is just focus on our job and be free riders. (Sorry if I speak for others here, it is just my impression ofc.)

Yes, right because of this we scattered affiliates are vulnerable. But that is the beauty of it. Name the thieves and let them take what they want. It is not my problem that esp. UK programs are that low cu.nts.

[vardan]

Yes I stand by what I said. Every person has their own intuition. If something doesn't feel right to me, I don't do it. This is your business as you said. My awards or what people think of me have nothing to do with this situation. If someone doesn't trust me, they also should not work with me. I won't be offended because I know who I am as a person. It's business and affiliates need to do what is right for them.

You mentioned above that you have a way they can prove it to you without breaking their security and privacy - why not just tell them so you can get the proof you want? Not doing that, but rather posting here about it seems like a waste of time that could be better spent doing other things. I replied because you asked a question that I had an answer to, but if you have a solution I feel I'm wasting my time helping here.

Good luck.

We don't talk about personal qualities, you don't have to compare yourself with other affiliate managers, as you already are a standard in that level. Not all aff managers have your experience and skills, that's why your words about trust aren't acceptable to me.

About wasting time - yours, the others or mine. If there are issues, the parties must be willing to resolve it. I don't think that after speaking about the issue with the aff manager many times during 2 months and then posting here to notify the forum members about the problem is a waste of time. I specially didn't create this thread in the "Unethical Behavior Reports" section because I still hope to find a mutually beneficial solution for the program and me.

I started posting here because both we (the program and me) need intermediary, our points of views are different, I don't see any chance to resolve the problem in the manner I have mentioned above. GPWA is an association for gambling webmasters and a better place to start conversations like this is difficult to imagine. Also we have a few cases that the issue had been resolved only by starting a discussion here.

The way to prove it is quite simple(in my opinion), I have already offered them something similar but they refused that. I’ll wait a little before posting it, let’s see if they’ll be here and present their position.

Once again, thanks for your time and good luck to you too!

[vardan]

I do not think I became lazy. It simply is not worth of my time and effort. I can do other things on this planet than to make such battles. I did not fight with my exbitch about money, I am reluctant to fight a law battles here. It is not my world. I was considering the skybet, but when I take the time needed + legal costs x uncertainty how much i might get back, my conclusion is that I will be better off doing something else. Just today I found bug in creatives of one book, it was thee for 2 years, so conversions were crippled. That book makes me more than stupid skybet. It is really better to focus on my work.

I do not care about justice. I care about profit. Fu.ck justice. We all abuse people in gambling niche or in capitalism. No need to play victims, even when we probably are this time.

That is why I do not think affiliate union will work. People here are individuals. We are not steelworkers. We wanted to be independent and the successful ones are. Most of us can count, that affiliate union would be great, but better is just focus on our job and be free riders. (Sorry if I speak for others here, it is just my impression ofc.)

Yes, right because of this we scattered affiliates are vulnerable. But that is the beauty of it. Name the thieves and let them take what they want. It is not my problem that esp. UK programs are that low cu.nts.

I understand your position... though it can be suitable for many affiliates, it’s not for all.

With time the quantity of good programs is getting smaller, if we f**k the justice every time when we have problem with some program, in a short while there will be only a few ones(or won’t be any) to work with. I think with such strategy we are closing the source of the profit for our business.

Small affiliates don’t have any other choice but to be united, it is my conviction. Even without any union or organization, just by posting and expressing our positions here we have had quite good results, for example: https://www.gpwa.org/forum/need-lawy...ghlight=b-bets

[vardan]

I would like to inform you that from now on every significant update in this process will be published on this thread, a new one has been published already.

Thanks.

[vardan]

FYI, the issue is resolved, please find the details here.