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  1. #1
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    Default Smart Live Affiliates - Closing its doors

    In case anyone missed this email and is promoting Smart Live

    Dear affiliate
    Smart Live wish to inform you of our decision to call a halt to our affiliate program with immediate effect. This decision has been made as a result of ongoing technical issues and integration with Income Access which we are unable to resolve fully. This means that we are not able to offer our affiliates the service that we want going forward.

    We have been constrained up until now with managing this on a manual basis but this is not going to be possible to continue in this way if we want to offer the best service possible.

    Therefore with regret all affiliate accounts will be closed and no new affiliates will be accepted to the program.

    We at Smart Live feel that this is the best option to minimise any further issues that will begin to affect all affiliates. We will notify everyone should we reach a point where we can start to re-open a program that is technically stable.

    All affiliate accounts will be paid up to date with the next accounting period.


    Thank you for your understanding in this matter and we hope to be able to work with you again in the future under better circumstances.


    Kind Regards

    Smart Live Affiliates


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    IncomeAccess provides great affiliate tracking. They are a third party and honest. They won't have numbers changed or affiliate tags removed. That's why LiveCasinoPartners uses them.

    Now, how about the 100 or so hours I put in to SmartLive when they came out. All of the articles I wrote back then for them, and money spent on promotiing them as an affiliate when they started!! I even made new websites for them at one time. Now they leave without warning.

    If they ever come back here I suggest everyone remember this day!!

  4. #3
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    Income Access is offline Former Affiliate Manager
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    Hi All,

    We would like to clarify and provide a breakdown of what has happened with Smartlive casino.

    Smartlive originally chose not to supply bonus or chargeback data for their affiliate program, and in April of this year they decided they wanted to begin including this data in the revenue calculation.

    Smartlive chose not to pay affiliates for this period before backdating all data to January 2009.

    In May when Smartlive began sending us the new complete data, we re-imported and updated stats for the year. It then became apparent that the client had been sending the data in the incorrect currency and therefore all data was amended and re-imported again.

    Smarltive continue to have frequent issues generating accurate data for affiliates. We endeavor to assist Smartlive with resolving these issues as much as possible given that they reside on their end

    As you know the Income Access system relies on operators to provide accurate data for us to report and display to affiliates. As such we work very closely with our clients to test, audit and ensure the quality of the data that is supplied to us.

    From our understanding there are no issues with tracking player signups and activity; the problem as it has been described to us is with generating the data and providing it to us to display in their affiliate system.

    In this situation we feel that we have gone above and beyond in supporting this client to resolve their technical issues, even as far as offering to waive our fees until they were able to get things together on their end.

    It is unfortunate Smartlive chose to handle these issues in this way, we felt it was necessary to clarify issues like this are not commonplace among our many other valued partners.

    Thanks,

    Income Access Team

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  6. #4
    Topboss is offline Private Member
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    Thanks for explaining your side of it Income Access, as it did sound like Smart Live was pointing fingers at you guys, but yet you have loads of other casinos that seem to be more than happy with your software, so I didn't believe that was the real issue.
    Unfortunately what Smart Live has just done is very similar to what Grand Prive did, the only difference is that Smart Live has worded their letter in a nicer way!! But at the end of the day - they are still taking the affiliates players and walking away - no matter how nicely they try and put it across.

    I am glad to say that I pulled them when their problems first started as I simply did not have a good gut feeling about them.

    The scary thing is that this is starting to become the norm with some casinos who choose to just break contracts and walk away.....

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  8. #5
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    I have to say I’m not at all surprised by this. I’ve been very disappointed with the amount of time I’ve had to spend corresponding with SLC over the past year or so. It seems like the program has had problems right from the start; and they don’t seem to have been very honest right from the start.
    Thanks for the post though IncomeAccess – I’ve been getting the impression that it was the Income Access software that’s at fault; however it seems to be the SLC tracking and ETL processes that are a real mess.

    I first signed with SLC last September and started promoting the same month. For the first couple of months the programme seemed fine , however in December last year they switched to Income Access, and in the process managed to lose any signups that I had generated in the process!
    From then on, it’s just been one big (bigger?) mess as far as I can see. Between then and April, according to the stats provided on the site, I generated around 1 signup for every 200+ clickthrus (previously the I’d been generating around 1 per eight. In March/April they switched to a ‘new’ system (although this was still income access) requiring ‘new’ affiliate codes; and in the process, managed to ‘lose’ again all signups that I’d generated.

    During this time, payments were sporadic, never on time, and didn’t reflect any of the statistics reported. Contact with SLC was very hard to come by; I went through five different affiliate managers in this period, none of whom ever managed to respond to questions or followed through on promises to investigate.

    Finally, about in June, an attempt was made to ‘merge’ the old Income Access account with the ‘new’ Income Access system. What happened next was nothing short of a joke; customers that had signed up with the ‘new’ system suddenly disappeared, the statistics became even more of a mess than before, and it turned out that one of the tracking links generated by their system had only been recording clickthroughs, and not whether customers had signed up or not. (Well, at least it explained the plummeting clickthrough rate I’d had).

    I was promised compensation in the form of a payment based on missed signups (but only from the period from March through to June). That was due to be paid in the July payment (which still hasn’t arrived, and to be honest I’m not holding out much hope for). Stats for August are a mess – I’ve actually seen my players playing on screen on the live feed, and the statistics are saying that there’s been no activity.

    It did start to look like (well, for a short while at the end of July) that Sarah (SLC Affiliate manager) seemed to be making headway. Obviously, that was just an illusion! At least she responded to e-mails though in a helpful way.

    As a consumer, I’d really have serious doubts about SLC as a product. They’ve cut down the number of presenters on the live shows and cut down the TV channels to one single channel. As an affiliate, if my experience is anything to go by, have a nice little revenue scheme in place by continually refusing to pay affiliates and by losing the accounts generated by the affiliates, they’ve suddenly gained a new revenue source. I’d steer clear of them in the future.

    Like WagerX, I’ve spent many hours (easily a couple of hundred) promoting SLC, as well as building a dedicated site, and this is a real kick in the teeth. I will certainly NOT be going back to them when (if) they re-open their affiliate program.

    Better go and finish remove their banners from my sites…
    Last edited by Daveyman; 1 September 2009 at 2:47 pm. Reason: Smileys appearing all over the place - don't feel like smiling!

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    So they close the accounts pay you up and screw you for the future earnings that you are due?

    Is that correct?

    If yes why is this thread just 5 posts long? Are we just getting used to being ripped off on a regular basis and not prepared to put up a fight.

    This type of thing just makes me wonder why i am in this industry at times, however, i am not going to give up and lose to thieves!
    Paul

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  12. #7
    Daveyman is offline Public Member
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    I've seriously got my doubts about the paying up bit. To say they've been unreliable on making payments would be complementary!

    There's a lot of trust involved in affiliate programs. I trust that they're reporting the players I sign up accurately. I trust that they're reporting the transactions players make correctly. I trust that they're going to pay ontime. I trust that lifetime means lifetime, and not until stats are lost or a programme suddenly closes.

    SLC has betrayed every single item of trust that I had in them; and the really sad thing is, yes - I'm beginning to expect this from affiliate programmes. There's no way of regulating this short of seeing raw data and/or having a third party audit programmes. I don't think that's likely to happen...

    The closest I got to it was actually with SLC - being able to see the names of the players you'd signed up, and actually being able to see them play live was pretty useful in establishing that at least transactions were being reported correctly (which they weren't). Randomly signing up a player every couple of weeks myself just to be able to see if the tracking was working was the other way (it wasn't).

    When I pointed this out they were pretty quick to fix what I'd pointed out - but it really did make me loose any trust that they were actually tracking accurately (which they weren't). What about things I couldn't track?

    Whats worse is that I can't see a way to fight back other than not promoting a casino. In the case of SLC, we're not left with much choice!

    I'd love to know who they get to audit their accounts.

    I have no idea how to fight back against this sort of thing - I'd love to hear any ideas!

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    I don't promote Smart Live, although they were on my 'to-do' list, but I still don't understand why, if what they are saying is true, they don't just migrate to a different affiliate software.

    I take at face value what the Income Access rep here is saying, but any system that relies on 'manually reported data' is fatally flawed. In this industry, the integration of affiliate software with internal reporting needs to be 100% automated with no human intervention.

    The data being reported is either right or wrong and I would suggest that both SmartLive (who seem to be trying to get out of their agreement with their affiliates) and Income Access (who seem to be saying our software has flaws and we rely on the honesty of our clients) need to get their houses in order.

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    if what they are saying is true, they don't just migrate to a different affiliate software.
    Of course they will. But you wont know and you just got screwed by another affiliate program for al your hard work. Don't be surprised to see many programs do this to cut costs. Close, keep players money and make a new affiliate program.

    The only way to make sure they are not screwing you over is to have the casino the affiliate program represents close as well but this doesn't seem to be the case here.
    Epic Gambler - Reviews, Ratings, Excitement

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chalkie View Post
    So they close the accounts pay you up and screw you for the future earnings that you are due?

    Is that correct?
    ....
    Yes that's pretty much it. To make matters worse, they are dumping all future earning keeping it for them selves. AND.. spending that money on direct marketing and SEO which brings them to the top coveted spots on important keyword terms. Now they are competing against the same affiliates that brought them to where they were!!!

    They should not be able to do this. It should really be illegal. It's insult, injury, and then finally a continual kick in the balls every time I see them above my SERPs.

    So, those of you taking down Smart Live banners join my program. I've been pro affiliate since Day #1!!. This is not a shameless plug for LiveCasinoPartners, it's a promise that your traffic will not go to waste!
    Last edited by LiveCasinoPartners; 2 September 2009 at 2:54 am. Reason: removed emocons..

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  19. #11
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    Income Access is offline Former Affiliate Manager
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    Quote Originally Posted by tryme View Post

    I take at face value what the Income Access rep here is saying, but any system that relies on 'manually reported data' is fatally flawed. In this industry, the integration of affiliate software with internal reporting needs to be 100% automated with no human intervention.

    The data being reported is either right or wrong and I would suggest that both SmartLive (who seem to be trying to get out of their agreement with their affiliates) and Income Access (who seem to be saying our software has flaws and we rely on the honesty of our clients) need to get their houses in order.
    Hi tryme,

    Thanks very much for your post. Just to clarify, the standard procedure for our affiliate programmes is that our partners send us daily files (in some cases much more often) that contain data on player registrations and sales via an automated and secure FTP transmission. These files are then automatically imported into the partner’s database, which is in turn displayed in your reports.

    We conduct regular checks to ensure that this process is occurring as it should.

    Hope this clarifies the process. Feel free to get in touch if you want more details. There is also information about our tracking process on our site for clarity and transparency. Here is the link to it, http://incomeaccess.com/affiliate-ma...g-software.asp .

    As always, we appreciate your comment so please don’t hesitate to let us know if you have further queries or concerns regarding this.

    Many thanks,

    Sarafina

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    There is an official statement from SLA on PAL saying that the program is only paused and also that lifetime payments will not be renaged on.

    So fingers crossed all will be good!
    Paul

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    Default Smarttlive official statement

    We deeply regret that many of you are so disappointed. Whilst we quite expected this response, some clarifications need to be made on our part to ensure that we are communicating our position as effectively as possible.

    First of all, we want to reassure everybody that the Smart-live affiliate program has not shut down –as stated from different sources - but is momentarily suspended, in light of some technical issues that need to be 100% sorted out before launching the whole new affiliate program again. In fact, previously we have managed to continue running the whole process with a very manual processes, we feel that this cannot be done in future, because of an increased number of affiliates, traffic and the next launch of the poker platform. The new management and affiliate team strongly believe that transparency is the main value in a business relationship with our affiliates and partners. So, instead of hiding behind the trees and claiming that everything is ok – and we bet there are some out there doing just that- we would rather be honest and prefer to pause the program for some weeks, get exclusively focused on what needs to be sorted out, changed and implemented and get back in the arena in the best possible shape.
    <o></o>

    Secondly, during the closure period, existing affiliates will continue to be paid for the revenue generated by existing customers referred. Each one of our affiliates will be provided with a specific report showing all the values and the amount of updated commissions as soon as the program is live again. We are honouring our Lifetime revenue commissions and have no intention to renege on this. It is just that whilst we are sorting out the issues affiliates will not be able to view statistics.
    Finally as a gesture of good will once we are 100% confident that everything is stable with the program, , we will be ready to reward all existing affiliates with an increased flat rate of 40% commissions on net revenues for the first 2 months once that we re-launch the program.

    We hope that this clarifies our situation and looking forward to seeing you all again soon when we have better news!<o> </o>
    Many thanks<o> </o>
    Smart Live Affiliates<o> </o>

    <o></o>

  22. #14
    ptg
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    Default most tracking problems with Income Access related sites

    I hate to say it, but I've had the most tracking problems with Income Access related sites. They rely on their supported sites to upload FTP files into their system, but I find that these files are frequently NOT uploaded without any notice to the affiliate. Sometimes these files are not uploaded for days or weeks, and the reporting interface looks exactly the same. Not to mention that these data files are completely based on what the site sends them, which means IA has no control over the data files and cannot guarantee the data.

    I've also noticed that there is a huge disconnect between the site operators at Income Access and the actual affiliate managers at the sites. If there is a data problem, it usually takes forever to have them resolved because we're usually dealing with two separate systems here.

    Also, sometimes I've noticed that IA offers their own affiliate support for sites who do not have their own in-house affiliate managers. To me, this is a conflict of interest since they are receiving money from the site for providing them a service, but yet they do not consider themselves responsible for any non-payment to affiliates. They blame the site. For some sites, I've never even talked to an affiliate manager at the actual site...just an Income Access manager. This is a problem. Especially when we're dealing with a rogue site, who ends up not paying the affiliate.

    Two separate systems are never good for an affiliate site. I'll admit that some sites are better than others at resolving tracking and data issues, but the fact is, these issues arise more often than not at IA related sites. I still can't pinpoint why there are so many tracking issues, but over the past few years since I've been working with them, the problems have not gotten any better.

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  24. #15
    Shaun O'neill is offline Former Affiliate Manager
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    Ptg

    As an operator that uses Income Access I really feel that i need to reply to your post.

    Firstly let m explain some historty of my dealing with Income Access, I work for another operator for 2 years and at that time theyhad taken the Income Access software after 2 years I lfet that company and then moved to NordicBet who had no affiliate program so i was lucky and I was able to select any software platform i wanted and i really do mean any platform, in NordicBet's eye the cost was not an issue they just wanted me an dthe affiliates to have the best possible system so I selceted Income Access.


    So history over, now i would like to anwser a few of your points:

    Tracking issues:

    It is almost impossible to have tracking issues with Income Access unles you change the links, in 2.5 yrs i have never had an affiliate say that they have had an issue with the tracking links.

    Uploading Data

    Yes you are correct in what you are saying about uploading data Income Access have no control over what the operator does, but within the back office we get alerts if the data has not been uploaded and one of the tech guys at IA hits me up on skype asking what happened, in my mind they do everything possible to ensure data is sent but if the operator does not send it what shoudl they do drop the operator..............

    You also talk about IA not being able to guarantee the data, lets look at other companies for example Poker Stars, it is my understand they have an inhouse affiliate back end which means you and million of other affiliate have to rely on Poker Stars to be honest. What you are saying is the same accross the board, it is the same with Net Refer ect, a huge amount of this business is based on trust.

    Full Package

    Yes IA do offer affiliate managers i have my own thoughst on this but why not it does make sense on some levels, i do not see this as any conflict of interest, also as IA do not deal with any of the financial transaction on the site hpow do you expect them to pay affiliates?

    I know they are doing well but do you expect them to pay €5-10m commision each month .....

    And finally of course IA have a couple of site that are not running 100% this is normal and it happens in this industry but they also offer a number of well run companies that have a top reputaion.

    Thanks

    Shaun





    Quote Originally Posted by ptg View Post
    I hate to say it, but I've had the most tracking problems with Income Access related sites. They rely on their supported sites to upload FTP files into their system, but I find that these files are frequently NOT uploaded without any notice to the affiliate. Sometimes these files are not uploaded for days or weeks, and the reporting interface looks exactly the same. Not to mention that these data files are completely based on what the site sends them, which means IA has no control over the data files and cannot guarantee the data.

    I've also noticed that there is a huge disconnect between the site operators at Income Access and the actual affiliate managers at the sites. If there is a data problem, it usually takes forever to have them resolved because we're usually dealing with two separate systems here.

    Also, sometimes I've noticed that IA offers their own affiliate support for sites who do not have their own in-house affiliate managers. To me, this is a conflict of interest since they are receiving money from the site for providing them a service, but yet they do not consider themselves responsible for any non-payment to affiliates. They blame the site. For some sites, I've never even talked to an affiliate manager at the actual site...just an Income Access manager. This is a problem. Especially when we're dealing with a rogue site, who ends up not paying the affiliate.

    Two separate systems are never good for an affiliate site. I'll admit that some sites are better than others at resolving tracking and data issues, but the fact is, these issues arise more often than not at IA related sites. I still can't pinpoint why there are so many tracking issues, but over the past few years since I've been working with them, the problems have not gotten any better.

  25. #16
    ptg
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    I have been working with Income Access for almost 5 years now. As far as tracking problems, all of these problems can be solved by offering offline referral codes, but as far as I know, IA does not support these which baffles me. I know that they have an ACID feature, but I have yet to see it implemented on the majority of the sites that we deal with and the documentation is very vague when it comes to implementing this feature.

    We have not modified any affiliate links, but yet we've had tracking problems with each and every IA site that we've ever dealt with. The only thing that I can attribute these problems to is IA. I deal with a ton of other sites outside of IA, and while I do have tracking problems with those sites as well, none of them are as prevalent as with the IA sites.

    Others may have better experiences with the tracking, but for me, IA is the worst. I am referring to their system and not their affiliate managers.

    As far as the alerts for un-imported data, I have seen it all. Some sites have missing data for days/weeks with no repercussions for the site and no notification to the affiliate. This is unacceptable in my opinion. I have also seen instances where the registration dates were imported in two different formats, thus separating the data for the same player. Sometimes the commission doesn't trigger for CPA accounts. I've seen it all. And since we're dealing with two separate systems, it's never easy to fix any problems. Deleting and reimporting data is a nightmare.

    I will admit that some sites are definitely better than others when it comes to fixing these problems, but there is almost always a disconnect between IA and the site, since IA is just the provider of the service (except when they are managing the site as well).

    As far as providing their own affiliate managers for the sites, I believe that it is a conflict of interest because let me give you an example. For Better Poker (rogue site), IA provided their own affiliate managers. Well, Better Poker decided that they didn't want to pay their affiliates anymore, but IA did not want to delist their site for fear not getting paid themselves. Let's say that Better Poker did decide to pay IA for their services, do you think that IA would choose to pay their outstanding affiliate payments to their affiliates first or would they take that money for their own services? This is a conflict of interest in my opinion. I'm not suggesting that IA be the payment processor for all sites, but perhaps they can retain some sort of cash credit from the site before providing them their services, especially if they are offering their affiliate services as well.

    Yes, there are a ton of sites that offer top notch affiliate support using the IA system, but in my opinion, the system is not as robust as the others out there. In my opinion, I think the Cake Network and iPoker systems are the best since all data is centralized for each of their skins. There are too many cracks, multiple levels of disconnect, and too many inconsistencies with IA and their affiliate sites.

    Just my opinion though.



    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun O'neill View Post
    Ptg

    As an operator that uses Income Access I really feel that i need to reply to your post.

    Firstly let m explain some historty of my dealing with Income Access, I work for another operator for 2 years and at that time theyhad taken the Income Access software after 2 years I lfet that company and then moved to NordicBet who had no affiliate program so i was lucky and I was able to select any software platform i wanted and i really do mean any platform, in NordicBet's eye the cost was not an issue they just wanted me an dthe affiliates to have the best possible system so I selceted Income Access.


    So history over, now i would like to anwser a few of your points:

    Tracking issues:

    It is almost impossible to have tracking issues with Income Access unles you change the links, in 2.5 yrs i have never had an affiliate say that they have had an issue with the tracking links.

    Uploading Data

    Yes you are correct in what you are saying about uploading data Income Access have no control over what the operator does, but within the back office we get alerts if the data has not been uploaded and one of the tech guys at IA hits me up on skype asking what happened, in my mind they do everything possible to ensure data is sent but if the operator does not send it what shoudl they do drop the operator..............

    You also talk about IA not being able to guarantee the data, lets look at other companies for example Poker Stars, it is my understand they have an inhouse affiliate back end which means you and million of other affiliate have to rely on Poker Stars to be honest. What you are saying is the same accross the board, it is the same with Net Refer ect, a huge amount of this business is based on trust.

    Full Package

    Yes IA do offer affiliate managers i have my own thoughst on this but why not it does make sense on some levels, i do not see this as any conflict of interest, also as IA do not deal with any of the financial transaction on the site hpow do you expect them to pay affiliates?

    I know they are doing well but do you expect them to pay €5-10m commision each month .....

    And finally of course IA have a couple of site that are not running 100% this is normal and it happens in this industry but they also offer a number of well run companies that have a top reputaion.

    Thanks

    Shaun

  26. #17
    melaniej is offline Non-sponsor Affiliate Program
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    Hi ptg,

    Many thanks for your feedback.

    If you're looking for an offline tracking code/referral code, our software does have that capability. This feature is enabled for merchants who accept tracking codes for their players and who can track and send us these stats included in their daily files.

    If you want to set this up, you can contact your affiliate manager or login to your affiliate account, go to My Account in your affiliate toolbar and selecting "Affiliate Offline Tracking Codes".

    Also, what documentation about implementing the ACID feature were you reviewing? If you could let us know, we'd be happy to send you through other documentation or provide assistance with the setup.

    Kind Regards,
    Melanie

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