Stop lifetime player commissions payment - how to prevent it?

Printable View

2 March 2011, 6:24 pm
syste82

Stop lifetime player commissions payment - how to prevent it?

Hi,
the question is: how can i prevent the risk that an affiliate program doesn't pay me anymore player commissions because i don't generate any new players?

As most of the affiliate programs T&C says, lifetime player commissions are guaranteed. I have read some affiliate programs didn't pay anymore commissions because affiliate started to not bring new players.

Well, i see this point as a big risk for affiliates, what would happen if i don't generate new players anymore?

Meybe we should avoid certain affiliate programs?
Or meybe we must verify something should be written before accepting T&C?
2 March 2011, 8:10 pm
bonustreak

You should be sure to read the terms before you register for the affiliate program. You can also visit AGD and see what programs we have listed as predatory etc. This type of thing is becoming more and more the norm so you have to be diligent on reading terms as well as checking for any retroactive changes etc.
12 March 2011, 7:35 pm
Ambit Energy

Probably the cause of not reading all the terms :(
13 March 2011, 8:07 am
nico84

Anyone knows if Europartners have those politics?
10 April 2011, 12:38 pm
rickymullholand

I had something like thin on an Ambit Energy Scam thread, got to check the terms and conditions.
20 June 2011, 3:24 am
BettingBots.com

This happened to me a while back with Casino Coins, who I see are Gold members on here. I was promoting them before they were even called Casino Coins and at that time they would pay outstanding commissions regardless, but one day I checked into my account out of the blue, saw that I was due a couple of hundred bucks I think it was, requested payment and they flatly refused.

I think if you've generated commissions you should be paid them no matter what. I can't think of any other industry where they would get away with this.

Poor show Casino Coins. It's safe to say I never did send them another player :)

~ Paul
20 June 2011, 4:26 am
baldidiot

Unfortunately the only real way to protect yourself is by CPA agreements or fixed media buys, but then there's a strong chance that you'll earn more with rev share.

Going by a programs history is a good start, but that isn't a 100% indication of how they are going to behave in the future. Management changes, and people get screwed. :(
21 June 2011, 12:32 am
Casinorep

Read their T&Cs word by word and make a copy of it in case they later change the wordings. Sounds a bit silly but it's one way to protect yourself.
21 June 2011, 12:36 am
alexpratt

I know a number of the bigger affiliates are now asking for actual paper contracts in addition to the online t&c's which includes guards like this
21 June 2011, 9:15 am
BettingBots.com

After reading some of the (and seemingly endless) horror stories on here over the last few days, I can understand why.

Affiliates are already being robbed blind by some of the biggest names in the business, some of those on here who are paid-up members too BTW, simply by unreliable cookie tracking, changes in code, management companies "losing" players, and that's not even getting into the real down and dirty stuff. I was at the CAC in Amsterdam 5 years running, as an affiliate manager and speaker at times, and what some of those guys - from the casino companies themselves - were up to would make you shiver as a potential affiliate.

Some of you might balk at this and after all of the crap in the US I don't blame you, but I actually think the industry is cleaner now for affiliates (and players too) than it's ever been. I only deal with UK companies these days though, have done for years, and I can honestly say I don't have a single reason to grumble about any of them.

I was kinda stunned when I logged on here last week and read through all of the (disgruntled) posts. It seems like it's neverending.

If you're not happy with the bulk of companies you're dealing with as an affiliate, then just change things around. The UK companies are the best, by far, for affiliates and players and (opening myself up to a barrage of abuse here :)), I actually think they always have been.

Ask Dave Merry, who seems like a stand-up guy on here. Or the bloke from Bet365, or Ladbrokes, or Betfair.

The UK is leading the market now, so if you want to stay in the game without having to bother about all of this "not being paid" crap, then just deal with UK companies. Simple. You'll be promoting solid brands and you'll get paid on time, every time.

The complaints on here would reduce to almost zero if everyone did... bad news for GPWA, maybe, but good news for affiliates, you know :)

~ Paul
21 June 2011, 10:28 am
davemerry

 Thanks for mentioning me in your post Paul! :)

I have been a casino affiliate for 3 years now and my sites are still my main source of business, I've had to battle to be paid before (recently in fact) and I have even been totally shafted for money which I'll never see, so I know exactly how it feels.

I made a comment in my post yesterday was really venting frustration through reading countless posts on the forums over the last few months regarding some of the programs that a lot of people promote due to aggressive marketing strategies.

No matter how many times I read 'we've not been paid', 'we've not received our statement' or 'they've backed out of another promised deal' affiliates still seem to promote these brands - if they care this little about the negative reputation they are receiving on the biggest community in one of their main revenue streams, then I can only assume they don't care about any affiliates individually at all, and they will drop a clanger in the future without heart.

On any site in my network if someone fails to pay me, or pays late one time to many then there not getting any more promotion - it's as simple as that. There is always a replacement and they will nearly always come back in the future through a new AM with a template email asking to be listed again – I have no time for certain companies, one of them is mentioned in this thread.

In answer to your question syste82 there is no real definite answer, in the past I've seen big brands stamp on affiliates just as much as the little ones have, often in a more cold and non-responsive manner as they don't rely on affiliates as much. All you can do is try your best to make the best choice based on their reputation, company vision and the terms and conditions – but all of these can all change at the drop of the hat.

The only sure way is to go with media deals or CPA's, but then most casino affiliate managers won't want to know you half as much and you stand to miss out on some good revenue - I'd never go with CPA personally!
21 June 2011, 11:21 am
BettingBots.com

Great reply Dave. I've read some of your stuff and figured that we were probably thinking along similar lines.

I'm surprised about what you said about CPA deals though as I know from experience that I've "lost" players regularly on commission deals over the last decade. CPA has always been more profitable, for sure.

You've probably done this before (and if so, please point me to the post), but if not please let me know how Castle Affiliates works?

Thanks,

~ Paul
21 June 2011, 12:43 pm
davemerry

Thanks Paul - it's something that frustrates me daily :)!

The highs come with the lows when it comes to revenue share. With one program we could refer 10 players and end up with negative £2000 revenue, bad times. But then recently we referred only 3 players to a program in a month and one of them players decided to lose in excess of £60k, giving us an excellent month. Lets say we refer 50 players per month in total through a site and get paid £50 for each of them, we would make around £2.5k for that month. That means it would take us nearly a year to replicate the revenue received through that one month on revenue share. Sometimes it doesn't work in your favour to that extent but providing you spread your risk across a variety of partners in different niches I have always found we come out better off than if we worked on CPA.

Sure :) I don't want to crash syste82's thread here but in short we promote the CastleCasino.com brand and since launch have endevoured with expansion to be a reliable, great converting, fast paying and helpful brand. Our ethos is simple, if we don't bend over backwards for affiliates then we can't expect them to do the same for us. You can read more about us right here on GPWA. 8-)

Once again, thanks Paul!

Dave
21 June 2011, 1:47 pm
big fish

these days the entire online casino industry in on shaky ground. counting on lifetime commissions is also shaky. some online casinos will remain and continue with payments, while others will fade away into the night. just do your best to partner with reputable casino affiliate programs that both convert and earn...
21 June 2011, 2:34 pm
AmCan

years ago, i would try to split my players between CPAs and Revshare to hedge against US shutdown. Now i would suggest people considering mixing CPA and Revshare to hedge programs closing. If you can run both CPA and Revshare campaigns with the same program, even better.

Given the changes in terms that have been going around and ability to convert, i'm now down to about 10 programs. back in 2005, i probably was actively trying a 100 programs.
25 June 2011, 6:38 pm
Former Member 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by AmCan

Given the changes in terms that have been going around and ability to convert, i'm now down to about 10 programs. back in 2005, i probably was actively trying a 100 programs.

I'm also at about 10 now AmCan. I will admit, I haven't always been pedantic when it comes to who bundles and who doesn't. Which can also have an adverse affect on income under the current status quo. Apart from hedging assets, I also think it's time well spent looking at every program one promotes and seeing if what deal your on is working for you or against you - I'm certainly taking this stance lately.

Cheers

:)

Dave
30 June 2011, 8:10 am
bonusbetting

There is certainly a lot of dodgy practice in the industry - it's extremely lucrative and the barrier to entry is low, so there are bound to be plenty of ruthless types trying their luck. I actually think we would benefit from greater government regulation (to ensure fair play, not to restrict players!).

Thankfully I've read a lot of valuable wisdom in this forum and have avoided being ripped off so far, touch wood.

I had a few emails asking me to promote 'BoogieBet' a couple of months ago. They offered a very tempting deal. Glad I didn't accept, as I found out yesterday they have closed and sold their player accounts - and that their affiliates got shafted. This kind of thing makes me very skeptical when it comes to new companies.

It's tempting to stick to the companies which have quickly proved themselves as payers and treated me well as a new affiliate.
However, my site is for comparing offers, so if I cut my deals to 10 I wouldn't be offering much of a comparison or choice to users.

My strategy at the moment is to have my main deals set up on revshare and those that I'm not so sure of on CPA.
I've moved to the Gambling Affiliation network for a number of operators, since they have some good CPAs and I can collect payouts in one account (a site at position 25 probably isn't going to make the minimum payout every month, so collecting them all in one account makes sense).
I'm also sticking to the UK's 'whitelist' of gambling jurisdictions.

Gambling Affiliation have a lot of impressive affiliates on board and the AM who contacted me has been very helpful - does anyone have anything to say about them?
3 July 2011, 3:55 am
GaryTheScubaGuy

Yes but then you are still subject to whatever juristication they are in. Then you have to litigate or sue, which would require a localized attorney. Travel to get wherever 'that' is, but that's only if you actually have a case. T's & C's are carefully calculated and aren't meant to protect you, most are meant to screw you.

I haven't seen ONE contract in 15 years as an affiliate ever point in favor of the Affiliate.

I was at the Bingo conference a few weeks back speaking and asked 150 bingo exec's how they thought the future for their Affiliates and their contributions were and the feedback was dismal. I laughed and told them Affiliates will continue to provide 40% of their business and I saw half the eyes in the room roll so far back I thought they were having a simultaneous fit.

We, you (cause I quit after EUIGA) need a concerted effort if you want to do anything to motivate change in this industry. Anything less would be pointless.

An Aff-Strike.

Otherwise its all just talk and speculation.
3 July 2011, 4:47 am
Former Member 14

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryTheScubaGuy

We, you (cause I quit after EUIGA) need a concerted effort if you want to do anything to motivate change in this industry. Anything less would be pointless.

An Aff-Strike.

Otherwise its all just talk and speculation.

Your spot on Gary!

lots0's over at AGD used an analogy to describe trying to organise affiliates to band together and fight to protecting their income. It went something like this:

Trying to organise affiliates is like trying to herd paranoid suspicious feral cats.

I've been saying what you've said for years but only a few listen the rest close their ears and minds whilst some even knock the idea. But soon enough affiliates are screwed again by yet another program and then bitch some more....Nothing changes if nothing changes...

Affiliates in this industry amount to 10's of 1000's we could force some serious changes if people stood up again this tyranny and demanded fairness. However until that happens no one is safe, especially the little guys and lets face it, that's what the majority of affiliates are, one person trying to make a livelihood.

Cheers

:)

Dave