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  1. #1
    Jambo is offline Private Member
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    Default Is such an answer and behavior acceptable?( Give me your opinion)

    Hi Guys,i would like to hear your view about something what happened with one of our partners. About the case in general and about the in my eyes very rude and disrespectful answer(see below).I will not say which affiliate program because it is not important but i should mention we work with them since almost 10 years.

    The short version what has happened: A player account got blocked because he used a bot while playing online poker. So far all fine and normal. The player had around 4k balance on his account and this money was frozen and used to compensate other players. So far also all fine and as usual.

    We noticed in July that they deducted us 1.600€ commission. We asked what it is and our AM told us that they deduct us the last 3 months commission for this banned player.

    We received the following answer: "so yes we do recover the commission paid to the partner based on the last 3 months.This is because in the case of Fraud, the other players involved who have been “ stolen” by fraudulent players have to be compensated by us. So we do recover the commissions paid to the affiliate to mitigate the loss."

    We informed the AM that the player had 4k on his balance and this money was used to compensate other players. We know it because the player told it to us and wanted us to help him to get the money back. Of course, we refused because we don't support any kind of fraud activity. Because of this reason we asked for an explanation and solution.

    Even if the player was involved in any fraud activity, the poker site did not make any minus. He generated rake and an income for the site. So why they should deduct us then the commission? Make no sense.

    After almost 2 weeks there was still no feedback, so we asked our AM again for an update about this case.

    We received the following email:

    I can understand the issues here reg. a fraudulent player, which we negatively deducted from your commission.

    Let me be very clear: When you signed up on ....... you signed and approved our T&C’s including all our guidelines.

    We are always in our right to recover wrongfully paid commission, that includes to much paid traffic, fraudulent traffic etc. which we comply 100% within all the gambling regulations and licences we are holding. This is not unique for ...... but the whole .........all 26,000 people – and believe me I tell you, that the Gambling Commission is sitting an monitor everything we do, we can not step one step aside. We don’t owe you any explanations for our guidelines, when accepting out T&C’s you have already accepted this, but ...... being the kind and helpful person she is, decided to look into this, on your behalf, even when I told her, she did not have to.

    If your boss have any issues, he can contact be directly and we can also discuss the overall deal between our companies. Let me also point out, that out of 500 partners, you are the only one having any problems with this.

    Normally when partners send us fraudulent traffic they actually apologize for the inconvenience and tell us how to avoid bots and fraud moving forward.


    The main problem here is not the 1.600€. I mean my point of view is still that no reason to deduct us commission if they had an income and lost nothing. Or i am wrong? But should be not the minimum that we receive a respectful and normal explanation?Let me know how you think about it. Maybe i am wrong and you see it other.Thanks

  2. #2
    Michael Martinez is offline Public Member
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    How much the player had on balance really has nothing to do with how much commission you were paid on that player's deposits or losses. Your commission is a separate transaction from the player's deposits, wins, and losses.

    So your partner is merely reversing all the transactions that occurred due to that fraudulent player's account. And unfortunately that includes commissions you were paid because of that player's activity.

  3. #3
    Jambo is offline Private Member
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    Yes i know this of course. But its about Online Poker and that's a bit different as casino activity. The site lost not even 1 cent and have a normal income for this player. They used the 4k players balance to compensate other players and the rake the player generated they put to their own pocket.

    What I don't like is more the ton and the way of talking with us a long term partner.

  4. #4
    Lee1 is online now Public Member
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    Problem with text communications. You can never tell the tone of the other person, so because you're annoyed they took money back, you're obviously taking this in the wrong way.

    I'm sure the tone would be different if they contacted you to compensate you for lost revenue due to fraud.

    Loyalty doesn't really to be honest. All they care about is what you bring in.

    I personally don't see an issue with the email. Seems honest and the fact that you signed the T&C's that outline the claw back seems to make this a mute point.

  5. #5
    Jambo is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lee1 View Post
    Loyalty doesn't really to be honest. All they care about is what you bring in.
    They get a lot of traffic since years, that's why I am not happy about such kind of answer. It's totally ok if their T&C say it so and nothing we can do if they want to behave so, even if we think its no fair, but to get a normal polite answer, should be possible in my opinion.

  6. #6
    Malikbhai is offline Public Member
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    Bite the bullet. If you don't feel comfy, start sending the traffic to their rival. Not worth the time.

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  8. #7
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    Whether they, the program or poker-room have lost out or not, is a moot point. You AM has made it crystal clear, they treated this player as a fraudster. And, because of this, your 1,600 commission has been garnished.

    Quote Originally Posted by Malikbhai View Post
    Bite the bullet. If you don't feel comfy, start sending the traffic to their rival. Not worth the time.
    The program is not going to overturn their decision. So you either accept it, or as Malikbhai suggests: start sending traffic to their rival.

    Trying to have this decision overturned, and your 1,600 commission returned to you, is a waste of time and effort. Let it go and move on.
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    It's your right to be treated honestly: fairness for all igaming affiliates - doch.news

  9. #8
    Jambo is offline Private Member
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    I understand what you all mean. Maybe my English is too bad to explain it.

    The main problem is the email and the way of talking and not the €1.600. We brought them much more as 1k players, and they earn a good amount of money. I think the minimum is to give us a normal respectful answer and not such a rude answer like: F... You, you accepted our T&C and, better apologize for this player and shut up.

    But if you guys say such email is normal and rude and disrespectful then my point of view is maybe wrong.

  10. #9
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    AussieDave is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jambo View Post
    I think the minimum is to give us a normal respectful answer and not such a rude answer like: F... You, you accepted our T&C and, better apologize for this player and shut up.

    But if you guys say such email is normal and rude and disrespectful then my point of view is maybe wrong.
    The email response from the "Aff Program", probably should have been delivered in a far less abrasive tone. However, going on the grammatical content of said email, it seems whoever wrote that response, English isn't their native (1'st) language.

    So maybe for him/her, being straight to the point is how he/she conducts business.

    If all this bothers you, then promote another program. It's not worth the stress feeling sh#tty over this program.
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    Compliance: a code word for control

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    Do the right thing, even when no one is looking. It's called integrity.
    ---

    It's your right to be treated honestly: fairness for all igaming affiliates - doch.news

  11. #10
    Michael Martinez is offline Public Member
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    Based on your description of what happened and my 1 year of accounting classes, it sounds to me like they simply reversed all the transactions associated with that player. Which means you have to give back your commission.

    That may not feel fair to you but that is the contract you agreed to.

    Like someone else said, I think you should just bite the bullet and move on. We've all had to live with clawbacks in commissions. It sucks but it happens.

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