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  1. #1
    Casinorep's Avatar
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    Default Too many winners

    Payment issue aside, I notice my players at bet365 win frequently, more than then lose - which consistently keep my earning in the deep negative.

    Anyone else notice this? I thought sportsbooks and casinos have house edges which give them (and affiliates) the advantage in the long run.

    However in this case, I think being a bettor is more profitable than being an affiliate, (at least at bet365). Lol

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    Perhaps the tips you give are too good.

    Try giving really bad tips. That way, all your bettors are guaranteed to lose. Mind you, they may not then provide much in the way of repeat business.

    Maybe the solution is to provide really solid information to your visitors and accept that winning punters are actually good for your business. Because, as you say, in the long run the majority of gamblers will probably lose some money, thereby offsetting those lucky ones who win.

    Or just bet on your own tips!
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    Casinorep's Avatar
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    I don't provide tips. I just sell bet365 as a reknown brand.

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    Are the winners all in the sportsbook? You may have caught someone who is really good. If it is just one player ask then to ring fence him or delete him from your affiliate account. I would suggest ringfence because like you say, in most cases everyone losses in the long run. I actually like it when players when because you know 90% of the time they are going to be good repeat business and over time you have the advantage.
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    2 issues here. First, bet365 refuses to disclose any remote information about the players. So as a result, I have no way of telling whether the winnings come from the same one player or multiple different players. Secondly, since their affiliate program provisions negative carryovers, the winnings have kept my earning in the red for nearly two consecutive months.

    So while I agree that player winning is generally good business for the longterm because it keeps the player active, in my case it is the reverse effect because there isn't light at the end of the tunnel.

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    And yes the winnings are from the sportsbook.

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    thebookiesoffers is offline Former Member
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    never had a continuous run a good players with Bet365

    in fact totally the opposite, Bet365 have out done all the other firms by around 4x for me, best performing brand by a mile.

    although my team Leicester City played Thursday night and won which spanked me lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by Casinorep View Post
    the winnings have kept my earning in the red for nearly two consecutive months.
    Two months isn't long term. You have to give the players time and opportunity to play it back.

    I've had situations where I've been wiped out for 6 months with a program that has negative carry over. Eventually, the revenue crawled back into the black and I got paid out. But if I'd pulled the plug after only two months, I'd never have seen a return.

    You just have to be patient and accept that these things sometimes happen. Until you have a large enough player database that spreads the risk, you'll always see income fluctuations. Part of the affiliate territory, I'm afraid.
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    Bet365 will tell you a bit about whether it is one player or several. They have always explained oddities to me in the past. However it is not an oddity and players will win, but not in the long term. I wont push a site that doesn't accommodate winning players. If I get wind of a firm that wont take winning bets then I reduce their exposure completely and there is a big firm that closed me down for sports after a couple of minor winners and after I tried (but failed for all but a couple of quid) to get a bet on a horse at 40/1 in a Group 1 race when they were a standout price. I don't want to promote them because they will be closing all my referred players if they fluke a winning run. I know that regular punters can not win long term. So I think it is good Bet365 are taking your punter's winning bets because it will make you more money in the end. It is painful now but it all turns around quickly. I think if you want the player removed then you should consider whether you want to promote sports at all. You need turnover and you have to accept some players will win for periods - as long as they keep playing regularly that will turn. Imagine a world where every sports player always lost all the time - even the dummest would stop in the end. So my advice would be don't worry and tough it out.

    I would say the real issue here is the negative carryover that bet365 applies, and given so many of their competitors do not carry over negatives it would be great to see that removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by justbookies View Post
    I would say the real issue here is the negative carryover that bet365 applies, and given so many of their competitors do not carry over negatives it would be great to see that removed.
    I would agree and have mentioned this to bet365 a few times but they don't seem to want to negotiate. We can't justify giving bet365 home page banners or any additional exposure when they are negative rollover and none of the other major bookmakers are. As a business decision, it's a no brainer. Ladbrokes / Betfred / BetVictor / SkyBet will get preference every time until such time as the terms that bet365 offers can compete.

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    you can do nothing, but wait for your referrals loosing the winnings

    the commission I earnt is not as good as i thought
    only 3xx pounds last month

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    It needs a lot of patience mate... This happened a lot to me. There were some fully negative days concerning football results and the next day had big losses instead of big winnings. There are two many factors that affect betting environment. I've written in the past my complaints too. I had €75,000 of deposits in a year and earnings €18,000 therefore €5,400. How about that? Where have all the other money gone? Just patience.. And yes, this thing with the negative carryover is very very bad. As it stands now I'm in the red too will need at least 3 months to recover and just waiting for the other companies to get paid. Sad bad true.
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    You tend to get larger amounts of money wagered on Bet365 and as a result you get larger winners as well.
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    The problem with Bet365 is that they are well-known for being quick to limit a winning player, despite what justbookies says.

    You can search some of the popular sports betting forums (not affiliate ones) and you will see that among the non-usa sportsbooks Bet365 has a reputation of being the worst for winners. And when someone wins big and Bet365 limits them - the bettor would usually withdraw the winnings rather than deal with $5 limit bets And when this is coupled with the negative carry-over = nightmare for affiliates.

    I still make small money with Bet365, but I will never knowingly send them a high-roller.

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    Always good to get feedbacks from other affiliates here. To give you more insight on my experience with bet365 - I started promoting them late last year, and so far have racked up close to 100 players.

    Two things I notice: 1) My commission from each player is very low, (averaging a few US dollars per month). 2) Only about 10% seem to play consistently, while the rest stay dormant.

    But when one wins, he wins big and continuously, thus wiping out any earnings I built up. So for those of you who earn 4 digits commission, can you share with us the number of players you generated to reach that level of earning?

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    ogpaper - I do not dispute what you say but it is not my experience at all. I agree that if a firm limits players too quickly they are not attractive for referring players, to say the least. My experience of Bet365 as an affiliate for many years is that I have seen huge sportsbook turnovers and significant swings in profit and loss on the sportsbook. That could not be achieved by limiting players all over the place. Also, and more importantly, I have bet with them myself and I have not run into any problems at all with being limited. I tend to bet stakes of between 200 and 500 and I have not been reduced or rejected. Sure, I have not gone on some purple patch run with them and sure I have not done a lot of betting with them. However I have bet with all the top firms in the last year in a similar way and I quickly found who was worth promoting. To be honest I was quite impressed by them all. Only two of them were a dire disappointment. I will name one - boylesports - because they closed me down before I could even have any proper bets and then trying to get explanations via both general customer services and after that the affiliate department was impossible. The experience with that firm was so poor I was left with the impression that if you bet more than 10 there you are likely to run into problems. The other is a huge firm with the worst software (and the only one of significance using that software for sports), which simply can't cope at the moment. They have other issues as well that make them unattractive as a firm to send players to. I wont name that firm because hopefully they will get their act together but they are lagging behind the others big time. Others I was impressed with include: ladbrokes, paddy power, betvictor, betfred and if you do bet big then pinnacle is a must (but not so attractive from an affiliates point of view).
    If Bet365 are limiting players then I don't think from my experience that it is so extreme as to be a negative. As an affiliate, I have always done well with them.
    Last edited by justbookies; 13 May 2013 at 6:06 am.

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    It's amazing the fact that when in a day of full unpredictable results, the returning positive amount is not too big, but when we have a day of the favours winning, we have huuuge loss...
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  20. #18
    justbookies is offline Private Member
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    conmen - you are always slagging Bet365 and you always suggest the stats are rigged. I know that Bet365 are good as gold, honest as hell and a great firm to deal with. Over many months you have been casting aspersions on them, so why continue to promote them?

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    justbookies - I can't really dispute your point of view, you clearly base it on your experience. And I agree that bettors who bet (or win) 3-digit amounts don't seem to get limits often.
    But the simple fact that Bet365 limits players, no matter the reason or the number of players, is enough for me to have reservations. There should be no reason to limit a bettor and it should never happen.

    That said, I continue to promote Bet365, because, despite what many people believe, the situation with UK and EU bookmakers is just as dire as the one in the US. There is a very small pool of bookies that are generally good to players and the rest are sheet. While limiting players is bad for affiliates, it's not as bad for the punter as, let's say, refusing to pay winnings for some made-up reason.

    I guess the best advice is not to put all your eggs in one basket

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    justbookies is offline Private Member
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    ogpaper - I agree with everything you have said. However bookies do and have always limited players. It is just at what point they do it. If they are allowing medium to small punters to have any bets they want, despite the fact they may go through winning runs, then that is good enough for me. Some firms will not even do that and only want a massive database full of tiny punters (I think boylesports maybe fits into that category from my experience).

    I was a bookmaker for three years and I thought there was a gap in the market for a firm that accepted large bets and did not limit - and there was and still is. However we were limiting some people. We had one client try and place 1000 at 16/1 on a golf player. We just were not big enough to take that at the time. Maybe a few years later we would have been. We took 1000 on short prices all day long from anyone. As I say, the nearest thing to what you are talking about I think exists at Pinnacle. I never bet big enough to test all their promises, but I never hit any limits at all and I did go through a sustained winning run with them at one point - any other bookmaker would have limited massively, they did not. Maybe they knew I was losing everywhere else!

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