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  1. #21
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    "So for those of you who earn 4 digits commission, can you share with us the number of players you generated to reach that level of earning?" Anyone mind sharing this for the sake of education?

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Casinorep View Post
    "So for those of you who earn 4 digits commission, can you share with us the number of players you generated to reach that level of earning?" Anyone mind sharing this for the sake of education?
    The months we've earned 4 digit commissions, we've had around 100 active players.

    Having said that, the months when we've ended in the red we've had around the same number!
    Andy

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  5. #23
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    as i can see, the most higher bets are always on winning side, i dont know if its natural or....
    or they just pay withdrawals from affiliates...as its just a system, and any wining bettor can be attached as it is affiliated by you.
    anyway im wondering, why i win 20-80$ some days , and loose 200-1000$ the other day....as for probability they must be nearly equal, maybe not...anyway, even adsense works better than these guys...which is absurd, as 20cent click works better than bunch of dollars.

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  7. #24
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    I was wondering too.. How can I have deposits of nearly 5,000 each month and losses from players to be just 900... I mean, where are all the other money go? This is happening since a lot of months now.. On bet365 I have the most registered players and I get less than any other company...
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  9. #25
    RacingJim is offline Public Member
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    I can't catch a break at Bet365, had one ok month but as soon as I started sending lots of players I've been deep in negative, I think I'm -6k at the moment and more or less every day is a big negative even sending good signup numbers every day. Negative carryover sucks.

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by RacingJim View Post
    I can't catch a break at Bet365, had one ok month but as soon as I started sending lots of players I've been deep in negative, I think I'm -6k at the moment and more or less every day is a big negative even sending good signup numbers every day. Negative carryover sucks.
    Yes, negative carryover does suck and is the only downside of their program. However the positives are they are one of the few bookies who will keep taking their bets (worst thing is a bookie who limits stakes or closes accounts after punters have won as then you have no chance of getting it back and they **** off your referrals). So long as turnover keeps up you will get it all back with interest, and often much quicker than you might expect. That sort of figure can be reversed in one day. I have been where you are and it will all end up good, just keep sending those punters.

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  13. #27
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    Just my 2 cents, Bet365 are honest, but with all the legal fees and bonuses they offer, it really takes a while before the players lose.

    We brought thousands of players and made almost no profit in 1st year. I was confident they do not have weird stats and eventually we both will make profit. I have seen minus numbers of players often. I asked few times. Once it was some chargeback from some asshole. Next time it was change to bet365.dk when one day large amount of players was gone and next day was assigned again.

    But in the end the players start to lose. Bet365 is good for small average punter, who plays soft and slowly. It takes a time to lose the 100% bonus. We have a major problem now with Bet365, but I must admit I believe their numbers and if you keep promoting them the weird flat curve of yield will turn to the right direction. Do not forget they send even reload bonuses to losers and I have seen bonus offer with 100% up to 1000 USD/EUR.

    Btw. I must oppose the opinion Bet365 can not cater the whales. I see just overall numbers, but IMO their risk management team is top notch. I have seen turnover to raise in 100's% sometimes and it must have been some lucky big player that after initial wins lost all.

  14. #28
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    I'm very disappointed with the numbers. I'm -7,000 euros minus when all my other companies are in positive sign (+). This is getting more frustrating because every day I see large amount of deposits and this is really strange for me. I haven't been paid for the last 3 months.
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  15. #29
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    conmen i read your last posts and yes, it is still pretty normal especially at bet365

    just a variance

    btw. you have some (fake) picks site... it is normal that your traffic will have even more spikes than normally, because the punters bet your picks so it is more probable that they all win or all lose

    try to have worse picks

  16. #30
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    Dear Bet365, please change to no negative carryover

    That would make my year.

  17. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by RacingJim View Post
    Dear Bet365, please change to no negative carryover

    That would make my year.
    yes, and give me 120% revenue share

    I do not agree with this forcing of resetting. It makes no sense, it is not partnership. It attracts scams. And most importantly it turns away focus towards the important things, where transparency and avoiding small print is the most important IMO.

    Humans tend to stick with numbers and magic signs. It can be nicely sorted in table: 30%, 35%.. reset YES/NO etc. This approach leads to C grade affiliate programs with obvious scams, where nobody (affiliate, affiliate programm, players, employees, shareholders, superaffiliates) is satisfied. It is greed without borders, nothing else.

    For example I am promoting for years 5dimes, delivering them nice amounts of players. For years I was negative and on the top they give 20% revenue share as base line. If you consider how horrible banners they have and how horribly looking software for both players and affiliates they have... one would say it is useless ****, lets move on.

    But they are not. They are soo good that I almost consider promoting them outside of North America (well they should really change the oldschool design).

    What is not seen is that they are semi-legal which is good since they do not annoy you with some legal ****. They do not deduct some taxes. They are run by one owner (who calls himself God therefore his superego pushes him to be fair ). They have stats for EVERY PLAYER, so you can track any bets live. And they let the big players play. One guy was on lucky run to 60K and I was about to write them to remove him, since I was thinking he is really sharp. But then I checked his bets and saw that he is betting for example 5K parlays and odds 2.07 where market is 2.15. Almost every other bookie would kick him out, but 5 dimes did not, because they are not stupid and can see a whale. Btw. the guy then went to felt and then made another amazing run to 80K and after he lost all.

    Sorry for almost offtopic, but the conclusions are - let the bookie make your players win big. At least you should know Bet365 is the only Euro bookie that still can handle big boys. If you do not like it promote Paddy Power. And do not ask for the reset. Almost 50% of big winners will go on winning strike. If the affiliate program, that can offer services to those players, would reset they might go broke esp. in environment where they have to pay taxes and fees. If all bookies will be pushed to reset, they will in the end push the risk management to slash every player after big win to avoid excessive payments to affiliates. There are too many bored millionaires around who want to burn cash... Let the bookies catch them, at least with sportsbetting. For casino and jackpots it might be different. But for me is resetting of sportsbook rather warning signal.

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  19. #32
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    That is an interesting post with some interesting points (re: negative rollover actually lending to the credibility of Bet365). I know what you are saying about 5dimes precisely, but it means nothing in the context of the UK / Europe. You can't compare UK firms (regulated, legal, tax paying, most listed on stock exchange) with USA firms (not regulated, living in the shadows, regarded as illegal by the US authorities). However I do appreciate what you are saying.
    On a minor side issue, don't promote 5dimes outside of the US. Punters from regulated markets wont give them the leeway / time to work out they are ok. It takes a leap of faith to go from state of the art software to that (refreshingly) unique and skeletal offering - at first appearance to an educated UK punter it would seem archaic. Horses for courses. If you want to promote 5dimes outside of the US then promote pinnacle instead, as they are an easier sell with the same positive attributes.

  20. #33
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    Yeah. I wrote I would >>almost<< consider promoting 5dimes. Because of the exact reasons you quote, they have almost no use outside of US. Thank you for valid advice.

    There are two rare exceptions I know: They have unique overnight MLB lines so if there are some baseball fans outside of USA (just guessing Japan or baseball niche sites) they might be worth of promoting. Second and in Europe (North and Central) more useful is their ice hockey lines. They offer unique alternative spreads and some kvazi-pros like to bet on it.

    Yes Pinnacle would be good choice for unregulated bookie with decent design especially after their redesign and flash live betting, but for my kind of traffic they are not converting well (I still promote them, because they are the best bookie in the world and top notch w/ exceptional affiliate programme). 1st of all they abolished the 500 usd bonus while ago. Second: they are low margin short bookie which simply has much lower % of bet 3rd they want you to pay share of any deposit/payout fee which is fair, but still eats A LOT of commission. I promote them at professional/arbitrage sites so I am on hot/cold revenue, which is cool for huge and winning bettors who those guys are, but if I add the few 10 Euro bettors to those and get less than 1% of their bets... it is not good. I promote them at square bettor websites from nostalgia since they helped me to make bankroll and they deserve it (and I secretly hope that maybe some of the idiots who keep losing over and over at casual bookies will think again, reveal Pinnacle and then turn into winning high roller... because to have highrollers at Pinnacle [who are not the piece of s*** like Betfair who steal players after 1-3 yrs] is like to hit jackpot). 4th maybe stupid reason why pinnacle is no good for casual bettors is that they (like 5dimes) do not use (except in the asian view) the betting slips that euro bettors like so much. I even think 5dimes and Pinnacle use the same kind of ASI software, that is the problem for euro bettor as you pointed it out
    +++++++++++++++++
    Simply I do not like this more and more regulated industry. I really hope some kind of unregulated Bitcoin betting will prevail, but it will not happen until Bitcoin becomes the real currency. Second problem will be the anonymity that can ruin bookies (we can have thousands of bookies nowadays instead of one market only because they can distinguish sharp bettors from the normal majority and kick them off).

    Sorry for offtopic.

  21. #34
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    In what way would Bet365 be a worse partner if they removed negative carryover?

  22. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanHorvat View Post
    In what way would Bet365 be a worse partner if they removed negative carryover?
    They would be less profitable and therefore more of a risk to deal with.
    What's another word for Thesaurus?

  23. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixian View Post
    They would be less profitable and therefore more of a risk to deal with.
    Good advice. From now on I'll be choosing negative carryover bookies which offer minimal revenue share. And if anyone happens to offer me nice CPA, I'll cut the offer in half in order to make the bookie more profitable so they're less of a risk. On the next conference I'll try to negotiate a 10% revenue share.

    Affiliates should apparently ask as little as possible, for the greater good. And, GPWA obviously destabilized the entire industry by promoting the concept of no negative carryover. It makes sense that Sherlock is not a member.

    On a serious note, affiliates aren't the only source of income/traffic for a bookmaker. Far from it. Negative carryover is just one of the things bookies are using to minimize risk and minimize costs. There are numerous others, such as short cookie length, players that somehow disappear from the aff account, "lifetime" not meaning lifetime, various commissions, transfering the cost of bonuses / reloads / promotions to the affiliate, etc. Plus migrations to different aff platforms, closure of aff accounts, etc.

    30% revenue share does not mean sharing 30% of player's revenue. Therefore I have no intention of worrying or even caring whether some bookie's operating costs are higher or lower. I'm not a shareholder. What I care about is can they provide the cash if an affiliate can provide the traffic. Judging from this thread, Bet365 can not.

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  25. #37
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    I don't think that is what sherlock was meaning exactly, but there is no harm discussing it from the angle of the bookmaker.
    Trust me, bet365 provide the cash if an affiliate provides the traffic. Yes, we would all like to see negative rollover gone but I have promoted them pretty much from their start and they have been excellent all the way through. Also, you are sending players to a firm that will keep them happy. I am not a great punter but have still had betting accounts closed (or badly restricted) in a few places recently. I would prefer that not to happen to my referrals and Bet365 look after them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by justbookies View Post
    Trust me, bet365 provide the cash if an affiliate provides the traffic.
    Trust me, they don't. At least not recently, and not for some people in this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by justbookies View Post
    I have promoted them pretty much from their start and they have been excellent all the way through.
    I'm glad you're doing well, but that has absolutely nothing to do with the problems some people in this thread are having. If my car is doing fine it doesn't mean the battery on yours isn't dead.

    If an affiliate has negative numbers with Bet365 recently, it means they're advertising for free and the advertiser took part in the risk of running a bookmaker. That's what you get with negative carryover from a bookmaker's point of view. My rough estimate is that the people who complained in this thread generate at least 5-10 million € turnover in bets combined per year, plus heavy brand exposure on prominent sites, and yet they haven't earned a dime.

  27. #39
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    Let's not be personal. Yes of course you are right, affiliates promote the brand and they will NOT get the most players they (co)promoted.... Usually!


    My point simply was that more important is that affiliates sites do not kick you out when they want or that they do not steal your players after a while or reduce commission to some crazy low number. If they do not do those two things, sooner or later you will get the share from your players, if the players produce income. My point is, and yes I am total loser etc. with few posts, that it makes sense to demand what I said. It has nothing to do with fact that I would love to have accounts resetted as well, even when I do not want this as much as smaller affiliates, since I catch some desperate losers even in the first month obviously and my problem is jerking off around zeroes.


    5-10M E turnover is nothing. I had much much much bigger and still bouncing around zero as I said. Even I was persuaded there is something weird with Bet365 and confused. No it is not weird. It can be many things. 1 and 1/2 year ago it was horrible, the last EPL round where were many bets it seemed that there will be some surprise in final round, but both Manchesters amazingly won the game where were losing or something like that. EURO 2012 was a disaster. Last major soccer leagues were decided long b4 end and favorites were winning and winning. Now we have better times...

    Other factor - one of many - is that Bet365 used to be and still partially is quite benevolent and accept quite large bets. While they are very good spotting arbitrage players, they can not see value bettors who bet live so easily. 2-3 yrs ago it was still possible to win high 5 figures b4 the player was blocked. Now they are more picky, but still let win decent amounts.

    Now imagine what even one player makes with the income. And as admin of professional betting forum I will tell you guys one strategy what pros do - they go to the most stupid or big affiliate portals and intentionally click on the link there to be hidden amongst normal players, since the block of their account comes later or they believe so. It is not that just affiliates catch players, players catch also affiliates with bookies.

    Bet365 are A+ bookie and they let players play. So before they sort out the core players it takes while. Much more time than other bookies, who simply let people bet 50Euros max, since 99% players bet like that.

    I repeat - push them to resetting negatives and they will not highrollers play. It is simple math. They will try to avoid any resets. And there are highrollers even inside "normal" traffic.

    Last note: Dan idk what is your traffic (maybe you have also some normal sites), but traffic from odds comparsion is NOT normal gambling traffic. People who look for the best odds will bring simply the lowest ROI or they simply have their ways how to make money and this was affiliate NEVER makes any money UNLESS the affiliate programme resets. But why the hell, if I am bookie, I should reset affiliates who bring me **** traffic that grabs my bonuses, beats my weak lines? And on the top I should thank such affiliate and reset his deal? I would even never agree to be promoted on those websites.

    Honestly every affiliate should know what kind of traffic he delivers and if it is arbers/bonushunters then demanding the reset is taking shot on the bookie together with the players. Well nothing wrong with this, I remember arbforum.co.uk years ago promoting Expekt, who was by the times honest and resetting and I was laughing out loud, since the Expekt guys knew obv nothing, tehy took decent bets, so the arbforum.co.uk owners had few months of year pretty decent profit from guys who brought just a mess.


    FYI. I am not GPWA member from a very good reason and it is that I really like my privacy and I like to have my identity protected. And identity is not just a name, but also connection to my websites. If I have to choose to throw away my income and websites or reveal my name and on the top of that to say what I am doing and where to 7 billion people until the end of times, I would choose the first for sure.
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  29. #40
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    I simply do not understand the logic of why some affiliates expect "no neg carry over".

    I feel that people who expect this type of deal are short sighted and maybe greedy as well. It is like a punter expecting to be refunded every time they lose and also to paid out in full when they win.

    I feel affiliates have become accustomed to this type of deal over time and now they expect every company to offer it. I'm sure if you had to take your emotions out of the equation and reverse the rolls you would see why "no negative carry over" is a poor business practice. Anybody with a bit of real world business experience should understand that.
    What's another word for Thesaurus?

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