totesport - what do you think?

[Dean_Leyland]

Hi All,

This is my first post on GPWA, been knocking around on CAP and a few other forums for some time but I hear this is the place to be these days

I work on the affiliate department a totesport and am looking for your input.


As the affiliate department is now under new stewardship after Russell's departure, I want to get a feel for what affiliates think of us. I would really appreciate some honest and frank reviews of:

• totesport as a company - how you view us, if you had a league of all the major UK sportsbooks with casino addons where would we rank? What do you think we could do to rank higher? Are we missing a trick with anything? Basically you guys deal with everyone out there and I want to know what you think we need to be doing, so I can get it done

• totesport Affiliates - those of you who promote us, where do we rank as an affiliate program? Do you have any issues with us? Are there things we should be offering and aren't? Do we convert? If not why do you think we don't? What could we do to make affiliate want to promote us over A.N.Other bookmaker? Again I want your feedback on us as an affiliate program so I can deal with issues and move forward.

Obviously I have my own opinions on the above and want to address the issues I feel we have, but with some input from you guys I think we can get a more rounded view and make our program better. Fingers crossed!

So please, feel free to give me as much or as little feedback as you feel necessary or add me to msn on d[dot]leyland@hotmail[dot]co[dot]uk and we can chat through stuff on there.

Cheers,

Dean

Totesport Affiliates
partners@tote[dot]co[dot]uk

[universal4]

Personally,

I lost respect for them when they changed their program a few years ago (broke the original agreement with affiliates) and moved to a "new" system "same one really....and took away sub-affiliates....

In fact in my case, I was still accessing the old stats for about a year plus and still seeing the sub-affiliate revenue growing, but of course I couldn't have it...

Inmyopinion, they created this "other system" so they could move to a model without sub-affiliates.

The software stayed the same, still playtech, the backend is still Playtech....

Just no sub-affiliate payments.

Rick
Universal4

[Dean_Leyland]

Hi Rick,

First of all thanks for your reply, I posted this same question on CAP sometime ago and nobody replied so your response is appreciated.

I hear what you are saying about the whole sub-affiliate scenario, having looked at the figures from back then it appears that the programme contained very few sub-affiliates. Also having personally worked with the Playtech ADV tool tote used back then, I can assure you that for a company who is not purely gaming like totesport, that there would have been many reasons for moving away from ADV which is essentially purely a gaming affiliate programme. The system they introduced and are still running is operated by Orbis.

Now that the affiliate team has gone from one person to two (myself and the affiliate manager here, Toby Oddy both of us are new at tote having worked in affiliate marketing for a number of years) we are obviously looking to grow the affiliate programme and we know that we cannot do that when the current software doesn't even allow sub-affiliates.

It is this kind of honest view that I am looking for, so that when implementing the new affiliate system early next year, we can bear in mind issues that have tainted peoples opinion of us.

Thanks,

Dean

[AE-Martyn]

Welcome Deano, I am pretty sure you will do good in your new role.

I have known Dean for a number of year now and he really knows his onions...must have had a damn good teacher.

x

[Dean_Leyland]

Welcome Deano, I am pretty sure you will do good in your new role.

I have known Dean for a number of year now and he really knows his onions...must have had a damn good teacher.

x

'tis true Mr Beacon, you were a damn good teacher!

[AE-Martyn]

'tis true Mr Beacon, you were a damn good teacher!

You learned what not to do!

[universal4]

Dean,

To re-instate any kind of sub-affiliate program now would NOT change my extremely poor opinion of you.

The reason is simple, you have already taken away sub-affiliates from me, and the revenue they generated....(I watched this revenue increase so there was no logical reason not to pay it)

Even though the amounts were not large, the principle is that you broke the agreement with the affiliates, then asked them to trust you, and long term you are re-considering re-instating a sub-affiliate method which you have already taken away from those you call partner. (which is what damaged the trust to start with)

You wanted honesty.

Rick
Universal4

[Dean_Leyland]

Fair kop, I totally understand what you are saying and can also understand how that would lead to distrust from you.

I would like to point out that I am not asking you to change your opinion of totesport, after all I don't know many people who would be happy about having sub-affiliates removed from their account. I would also like to point out that it was totally different staff at totesport when this happened, obviously if what you say is true then the people who carried out these actions were out of order.

I am merely seeking opinions, not trying to change them if the individual doesn't want them to be changed. You have given me your honest opinion and for that I thank you. Unfortunately your particular issue is something which happened a while ago that I cannot fix.

If anybody else, has any views on how the tote affiliate programme can be improved on a more practical level, I would love to hear them.

[universal4]

Not to be too hard on you, but that is one of the inherant things wrong with this industry.

You sit back and say, help us improve, we promise we will honor our agreements...

But you did NOT honor your agreements, you broke them.

It doesn't matter that you didn't work for them then....

Rick
Universal4

[tryme]

I've never promoted Tote Sport so have nothing to contribute in terms of 'what do current affiliates think of us'. I suspect that I may have signed up as an affiliate in the past, though.

However, I don't promote bookmakers that only pay on a CPA basis for their sports betting punters. I strongly suspect I'm not alone in that.

What I'm looking for is rev share and a genuine cross-marketed, one wallet system. Basically, if I bring you a sports betting player, I want commission if that player then decides to play blackjack, poker or bingo.

In essence, if you are not offering a 'single wallet' system with rev share across all your products, then you're not really in the game. You, and all the well known UK brands need to look at what Bet365 do and copy that. Before the end of the year, I'm going to pull every brand that doesn't deliver on that : so Paddy Power and others are going to be gone, I'm afraid.

However, to answer your question of 'how would I rate you as a company', I get asked frequently by friends about 'should I bet here' and I'd never have any hesitation in saying 'bet at the Tote' if the odds are right.

I guess what I'm saying is this: on a personal level, I'm happy to recommend you to friends but on a professional level, you're really not offering what I want to see as a gambling affiliate.

[GCG]

I guess what I'm saying is this: on a personal level, I'm happy to recommend you to friends but on a professional level, you're really not offering what I want to see as a gambling affiliate.

Amen to that.

[stgeorge]

That earlier posts sums it up. If you canlt give affs one code that tracks all your products you really cannot compete head on with the others that can.

We would review your products individually but they will get low priority and definitely no banner exposure.

[Dean_Leyland]

OK, I hear you. Totally understand what you are saying in terms of sportsbook CPA. That's one of the first things I noticed when I took the role here and that will be changing.

Just to let you know, we do operate a "one wallett" system. If your players play any of our products you would be paid accordingly. Sadly as previously mentioned, the sportsbook is currently a CPA but as I said, that will change.

Being totally honest, as I have asked you guys to be. I think our major downfall is our links, I feel our banners and landing pages aren't up to standard which is why we are having over 100 new banners and 10 new landing pages designed as we speak. When looking at our creative on affiliate sites, we don't stand out and our banners look bland. I know for a fact our payments are prompt and have been for sometime, Russ used to ensure that payment were made swiftly and we have certainly continued that trend. I also feel our communication to affiliates is above the average, we like to keep affiliates up to date at all times and always invite input.

Overall I know there are changes to be made, and over the next 2-3 months, they will be made. Just a case of bearing with us for now and in a short while, hopefully those that don't promote us, may take a second look.

Cheers,

Dean

Totesport Affiliates

[universal4]

There is a thread here somewhere that covers the banners and creation etc....

Please be careful about the weight...

This is a big factor in determining how often a creative is used if at all....

I remember at some point yesterday I was looking through creatives for someone (I forget who right now) and they had some really beautiful banners that I thought would look great on my site.

But then I realized they were (468x60) and over 100k In fact a few reached over 300k.

Sure I could probably optimize them, take out frames etc...but if it starts at 100k even good optimizing is gonna make that creative the largest one on the page...

Did I take the 100k one? Nope, I went to a different program.

Rick
Universal4