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  1. #1
    iso2009 is offline Public Member
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    Default US betting sites - why big players don't use them

    I wonder why some big players in the live score niche are not using the US sports betting sites (like Intertops or Mybookie) and instead opted for displaying Adsense to US visitors.

    The question might be stupid, as I know nothing and have no experience so far with the US betting market. Still, I am curious about the answer.

    Could it be legal problems or lack of conversions?

  2. #2
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    Nowadays the problems might be legal as well. But from what Livesport said, they do not have the traffic. They are mainly soccer focused and the livescore niche was seized by the big US corps that have much better product and people do not look elsewhere.

    They had plans years ago to focus on USA, but apparently failed and they do the soccer out of USA.

    Getting paid in BTC does not help either, the livesport itself is non-flexible corp (I guess).

    There are probably some other reasons, but the main is really the lack of traffic and product.
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  4. #3
    iso2009 is offline Public Member
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    That's interesting, but I find it hard to believe that top players in the industry, will lots of search engine traffic coming also from the US, cannot convert.

    I fear the legal issues (which ones?) are more serious, otherwise I don't understand why livescore dot com is not showing US betting sites to US users.

    Again, maybe they tried and were unable to convert.

    Edit: I guess there's a strong USA base of soccer fans, especially from immigration. There's also tennis traffic that will convert anywhere on the planet.

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    Livescore com is owned by another Czech than Livesport. He was here b4 anyone and he does give a **** for 2 decades. He is having fun somewhere in Africa. Not everyone is maximising the profit.

    They would have to change design for USA completely etc. I think most people who got rich do not give a **** after certain level. I understand them.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
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    iso2009 is offline Public Member
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    I know he is Czech, I received 8 years ago a letter from his attorney, telling me to hand over my domain to them, or it will be seized. The reason was that "livescore" was registered as a brand worldwide, and since my domain started with "livescore", it was theirs by law.

    Disregarded it, since the domain was penalised by google anyway...

    Yes, what you say seems right, that business is already making tons of money.

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    Ah, it was you.
    Well he is just another crazy guy who is annoying others instead of looking at something that makes sense.

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    Also if I am not mistaken, the main partner of livescore.com was bwin.com. And they were the first affiliate program to dump everyone.
    The owner might want to avoid affiliates at all.

    Many small affiliates think the big ones get special treatment. Usually no and sometimes even worse.
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    My first aff program was also bwin. Still getting paid monthly. They are crooks nevertheless...

    Looking at the size of the business, you can sell ad space and revenue share on the same time. I think the site is booked all the time and there's a waiting list.

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    If bwin was your first program you might be paid smoothly but just a fraction of what you are owed.

    Around 2011 they came with new affiliate program bewinners that stole all past players. In late 90s there was no bet365, just bwin everywhere. They killed the affiliates and then killed themselves.

    I talked to them about it, they regret it, but they did the same **** again on me last year.

    You are probably losing a lot of players without knowing it. I know untill they pay they are not so bad even when they steal after 3 years and they have other **** rules like stealing a player who does not deposit in 1st year etc. There are now alternatives on their markets, but I am not going to shill some brand over and over again.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

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  12. #10
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    Indeed, they went rogue around 10 years ago? Never said bwin (now GVC) are OK, but it's a wonder they are still paying me.

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    Yes, they were the devils who tested the market and literally they made bet365, who are smart enough not to repeat it.
    They lost livesport as well.

    https://web.archive.org/web/20101226....belosers.com/
    https://web.archive.org/web/20101231...tory_terms.php

    (the terms were actually changed to even more rogue than i stated above and it happened 2010 not 2011)

    fyi my bet365 account is now being closed for 3 years, after 3 years they pay me with exception of corona spring nearly the same money as in 2017: that is the value of the 3 years+ old players that bwin stole

    They stole affiliate income worth of hundreds of millions if not more. And you say after this they were your first affiliates...
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  15. #12
    iso2009 is offline Public Member
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    I totally agree that was a very ugly move from Bwin... I can still count my monthly loses in the stats, since I see the overall income.

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  17. #13
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    Correct, you can see the loses on 5% players. Maybe, maybe...
    But you do not see the players stolen with the 30/90 days rule.

    And what is even more concerning is their premium com. One pissed off affiliate manager told me they sent there the 70K whales they caught. Probably even whales from restricted countries can still play. On my request they told me I was getting commissions from premium, but I think no way.

    The most amazing thing was, until they stopped paying, they still paid decent money. It just shows lows of this industry. But really, there are others now in Europe where value of player is higher and estimated longevity as well.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
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    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

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    Some brands are affiliates in legal states ( check via VPN) so they cannot offer non licensed books however the traffic they get from NJ and others more than makes up for it.

  19. #15
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    Why you think traffic from NJ and the few others makes it up for the rest of USA?
    I do not think it is possible. Rest of USA is much bigger than the small legalised states and some unlicensed still work even in NJ and such.
    Maybe I am wrong. Do you have some data supporting this?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sherlock View Post
    Why you think traffic from NJ and the few others makes it up for the rest of USA?
    I do not think it is possible. Rest of USA is much bigger than the small legalised states and some unlicensed still work even in NJ and such.
    Maybe I am wrong. Do you have some data supporting this?
    Makes up based on using adwords for non legal states, no way do I think its bigger but many of these big brands are tied to large USA media companies so have no way of offering grey area books, some others want future legal states and are building a business upon that, if you rank top locally for top keywords you will do much better than 20+ ranking site elsewhere or say a free no deposit bonus site, it's not all about traffic volume

  21. #17
    Sherlock's Avatar
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    I am not disputing the bad actor bs and I do not dispute "if you rank top locally for top keywords you will do much better than 20+ ranking site elsewhere or say a free no deposit bonus site, it's not all about traffic volume". But that is irrelevant to my question why you think "traffic they get from NJ and others more than makes up for it".

    Maybe you wanted to write "they think/hope/count with that
    traffic they get and will get from NJ and others more than makes up for it". That would something completely else.

    Sorry if I am nitpicking. But when I read that the few states actually make some significant money compared to deregulated US is very important to me. Not only because I absolutely do not believe on it, but because I need to know that I am wrong maybe.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

  22. #18
    iso2009 is offline Public Member
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    bet365 loaded with an US ip. They will check if you are in NJ or not. But if you are using a NJ vpn/ip/proxy, I guess the next step is to verify your ID, address and so on.


  23. #19
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    You need an advanced spy geo plugin with US IP that will with higher accuracy confirm you are in NJ where bet365 have a licence (probably). Geocomply is probably some company licensed for US censorship.
    We are all bloodsucking ticks, hungry, devious
    each one latched on to the ass of the previous
    when the last and the first latch on it can be shown
    ass-blood sucked by the first from the last is his own

  24. #20
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    I see many affiliates in US, specially US based ones or media companies which indeed drop the offshore sites for
    the legal ones. Do I think it's worth it now? Considering same ranking - i would say no, but assuming lower competition and higher CPA- possible.

    But i think it's not the question they ask but expect the market to move towards more legislated states and they want to "clear" their history.
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