Victor Chandler Refuses to make Payment! (RESOLVED)

[Tovey]

When I noticed that I had not been paid for September from Victor Chandler yet I inquired as to where the payment was, I was then told that my commissions are being withheld "due to lack of referrals". My account has been open since about 2006 and most of the players were sent prior to the imposition of any term that required new players to be sent in order to receive payment for old players.

I've never accepted any term that requires new players to be sent in order to receive commissions on players that I've already sent.

So the term they have used to deny me payment is an illegal retroactive term that has no effect.

I have had detailed discussions with my commercial attorney on this in the past and it's a well established precedent that one party cannot unilaterally change an agreement retroactively without the other sides consent. Further clauses that one party can change an agreement at any time are simply legally meaningless as if they weren't, any agreement would be meaningless.

I have written to Victor Chandler and pointed out how the denial of our commissions is based on an illegal retroactive contract change and they still maintain the position we are not due anything for our September commissions until we would meet some vague requirement to send in new players - and since this is based on an illegal retroactive change that's an unacceptable response.

I then pointed out that if they continued to refuse the payment I was entitled to there was no choice but to go public to the industry forums with this matter.

I was then promptly informed that my account was closed!

Apparently under the grounds that posting to a board violates the agreement! Such actions are highly unethical and make a mockery of this program being a certified sponsor here!

How can one be a sponsor here, if the program can terminate any account that speaks out against the program when it is treated unfairly?

In any case, my having to post this was only necessitated by their breach of failing to pay me the commissions I was legally entitled to in the first place.

I thus ask the GPWA to formally investigate this matter of my improperly withheld commissions.

[PingPong]

they can modify any of the terms and conditions anytime. so there is nothing wrong

[universal4]

Quotas (of any kind) that are attached to the ability to get paid for players sent are BAD for EVERYONE!

I was then promptly informed that my account was closed!

Apparently under the grounds that posting to a board violates the agreement! Such actions are highly unethical and make a mockery of this program being a certified sponsor here!

And this is a good point and I am considering supporting this.

First of all, you were displeased with the program and actions they were taking on your account, and you contacted them directly first to try and work things out.

After the fact that the two of you could not come to an agreement, you respectfully and professionally posted the story about what transpired on a well respected forum to get feedback and advice from your peers.

For them to then take the action they did by closing your account, is just WRONG!

Once more mid-size and larger affiliates feel the effect of this happening to them will they come to understand how important fighting quotas is to the survival of affiliates everywhere.

I strongly urge all affiliates (especially small affiliates) to be very careful about promoting any programs with quotas and to fully investigate and understand how a programs quotas may affect their ability to be paid for their work.

Rick
Universal4

[Tovey]

PingPong said:

>they can modify any of the terms and conditions anytime. so there is nothing wrong

No they can't. If this was the case, your bank could tell you your funds had just been converted into Zimbabwe dollars as per a change they put into the agreement, as allowed by a "we can change anything" catch all "clause".

[PingPong]

PingPong said:

>they can modify any of the terms and conditions anytime. so there is nothing wrong

No they can't. If this was the case, your bank could tell you your funds had just been converted into Zimbabwe dollars as per a change they put into the agreement, as allowed by a "we can change anything" catch all "clause".

http://www.victorsaffiliates.com/en-gb/terms-one.htm

Betvictor reserves the right to modify, vary or amend any of the terms and conditions contained in this Agreement or replace them at any time and at its sole discretion, by posting a change notice or a new agreement on its site, which it will notify to the Affiliate at the e-mail address provided when it joins the Affiliate Programme. Modifications, variations and/or amendments may include, for example, changes in the scope of available Referral Commissions and Affiliate Programme rules. IF ANY MODIFICATION IS UNACCEPTABLE TO THE AFFILIATE, ITS ONLY RECOURSE IS TO TERMINATE THIS AGREEMENT PURSUANT TO THE TERMS OF CLAUSE 5.1. IT’S CONTINUED PARTICIPATION IN THE REFERRAL PROGRAMME FOLLOWING THE POSTING OF A CHANGE NOTICE OR NEW AGREEMENT ON Betvictor’S SITE WILL CONSTITUTE BINDING ACCEPTANCE OF THE MODIFICATION OR OF THE NEW AGREEMENT.

[Tovey]

http://www.victorsaffiliates.com/en-gb/terms-one.htm

Betvictor reserves the right to modify, vary or amend any of the terms and conditions contained in this Agreement or replace them at any time and at its sole discretion, by posting a change notice or a new agreement on its site, which it will notify to the Affiliate at the e-mail address provided when it joins the Affiliate Programme. Modifications, variations and/or amendments may include, for example, changes in the scope of available Referral Commissions and Affiliate Programme rules. IF ANY MODIFICATION IS UNACCEPTABLE TO THE AFFILIATE, ITS ONLY RECOURSE IS TO TERMINATE THIS AGREEMENT PURSUANT TO THE TERMS OF CLAUSE 5.1. IT’S CONTINUED PARTICIPATION IN THE REFERRAL PROGRAMME FOLLOWING THE POSTING OF A CHANGE NOTICE OR NEW AGREEMENT ON Betvictor’S SITE WILL CONSTITUTE BINDING ACCEPTANCE OF THE MODIFICATION OR OF THE NEW AGREEMENT.

No dispute that's what it _currently_ says, my point is that its just not legally enforceable as a way to impose changes retroactively without consent as it would make the agreement meaningless from any practical point of view.

[Anthony]

I will contact Victor Chandler. Tovey, I am sending you a PM for additional information.

[GFPC]

Another reason why recently i have been educating affiliates in private to stay away. I am right yet again!

[PingPong]

Tovey
You are not protected by this agreement at all. So difficult to call it "practical" in relation to you.
There are no ethics or strict morals in this industry. They need you as long as they need you.

[Sarah_BetVictor]

Hi Tovey,

I've sent you a private message.

kind regards,

[theGman]

I think that this behaviour by Victor Chandler is deplorable and i am vey happy that i do not promote them.

I am sorry for the loss of your income - why they would stoop to such a level - and in my view taking money that does not belong to them - is morally wrong and indicative of the type of orginisation they are.

The best way to get back at people like this is to simply promote their direct competitors. I do hope that they see sense and at least give you your money.

Victor Chandler you should be ashamed of yourselves - no amount of keeping this restricted to emails will hide the fact that you do not care for affiliates or treat them as equal partners.

[FictionNet]

Are VC able to say here officially whether they use a minimum player threshold before payment is made?

[Sarah_BetVictor]

Hi FictionNet,

There is no minimum player requirement before we make payment but there is a minimum payout threshold dependent on payment method - Neteller, Moneybookers and VC player account stand at £50, whereas bank transfers are £500 - we are looking to reduce this in the new year to a slightly lower amount and I will post on here when that has been made official.

[FictionNet]

Hi, Sarah

Minimum payment threshold, I can handle. It was the "the imposition of any term that required new players to be sent in order to receive payment for old players" from the OP that was worrying me.

[Tovey]

To update - we were paid what we were owed for Sept. Thanks again GPWA.

[CityGuard]

To update - we were paid what we were owed for Sept. Thanks again GPWA.

I've added "RESOLVED" to the thread title because the affiliate indicates that he has received the payment.

[WSAChris]

Still inexcusable i for one will never promote this organisation, their reputations appalling reading through all these original non payment threads.

[WSAChris]

No dispute that's what it _currently_ says, my point is that its just not legally enforceable as a way to impose changes retroactively without consent as it would make the agreement meaningless from any practical point of view.

So true, in hindsight either way they would be in breach of their own terms and conditions.