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  1. #41
    casinoglen's Avatar
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    OK. You political gurus. Call me blind perhaps, but I can find the schedule for voting for damn near every bill but this one

    When is it scheduled to be voted on?

  2. #42
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    It's a ways off before that happens.
    I don't even think it's been passed on to a committee yet. That will no doubt happen soon. Then the committee will either recommend that it go to the floor for a vote, or as you've probably heard it can killed in committee. That of course is what we would like to see.

    If it goes to the floor for a vote, and passes, then it would move on over to the Senate for a vote there.

    So basically, there a 3 points where it can fail.
    In committee, on the House vote, or on the Senate vote.

    There are quite a number of things that can happen along the way thruout the process. Essentially, the special interests will either push it thru, or throw out obstacles so it won't depending on which side of the fence you are on.

    If it happens to make it to the Senate, I think our mouthpiece needs to be prepared to make sure there is a Senate Hearing on the matter, and debate it with the Senators then too.

    As for the money, I not particularly in favor of throwing money into a black hole.
    I'm not at all in favor of handing money over to gambler's annonymous at this time. That's like funding the opposition. I won't do it.
    If the bill fails, then we can organize some funds for them.
    I'd be very much in favor of that, but not until after this matter is decided.

    I stand by my original statement that I don't think we can fund a Lobbyist, but we might be able to afford a mouthpiece, or help the IGC afford one. We need to know more about what they are doing. Maybe even Poker Alliance would be better for the mouthpiece.
    All these people already have an initiative under way, and are hard wired into what's happening.
    I also feel that before any money changes hands, we need to know exactly who the money is going to, if it's for a Lobby, or to hire a Mouthpiece, how much it will cost, and then see if we have enough support to raise that amount.
    If the pledges are sufficient enough to make the hire, then we all pay at that point.
    If it isn't, then I suggest doing whatever you can afford to do on an individual basis in order to help the IGC, or The Poker Alliance. JMO.

  3. #43
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    I can do this Alby and can run down tomorrow to take care of it. This will at least get things started.
    Great news John. The first $1000 donation is waiting in your Neteller account already.

    Please note that I would like this money to go towards the lobbying effort. As much as I like the charity idea I think lobbying is the best way to actually get the result we want, especially if the lobbying firm can show that there is a very broad base of people behind the effort with thousands of hard working Americans donating to their hard-earned money to try and stop this bill. IMO there is a big difference if ten wealthy online casinos each donate a sizable chunk of money, compared to thousands and thousands of small webmasters who actually make their living from this business, and pay taxes in the states where those Congressmen have their base, as well as many players who like the fun and choice of being able to place a bet online in their spare time and in the privacy of their own home.

    Remember, Lobbyists are sort of a "Covert" group of characters.
    They are mostly working quietly behind the scenes, and only use the threat of going public with this, or that, as a hammer to hang over the Politicians heads to get what they want.
    As usual Nick knows what he is talking about. Although I wonder if it is not too risky a strategy to not get the media involved once we have gathered the funds and the support base...

    I know there have been many other bills in the past, but I really believe things are different this time around and we have to stop it. We can't wait for others to win this fight for us; we have to take responsibility ourselves. Please donate to this campaign, even if it is just $10, the more people donating the broader the base of people we can show we have. We have to shift the picture they are trying to paint, from a few offshore (terrorist! ) companies making huge amounts of money to thousands and thousands of hard-working, tax-paying Americans that will lose their jobs and their homes due to this bill...

  4. #44
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    That's why I was saying keep track of who puts in what. If it turns out that they are not to be used, then we also have a record of what would amount would go to whom. Marlene and I are going to start it off with $1000 and it will simply be there in case of need.

    Either way, I think the funds would have to be ready if that were the direction this were to travel in, however, THIS IS NOT a call for people to automatically start throwing money in. That would depend upon the individual.

    As to whether or not we were to hire a lobbying firm, or a lawyer or even kick the funds over to the IGC or the Poker Alliance, it actually too early to tell, but I believe that to wait until the last minute is not a good idea.

    There are many, many people that believe that this will not pass any further than the previous entries have done. There are just as many that do believe it will go.

    I myself am optimistic, but believe that just sitting on the sidelines, and doing nothing, will do us no good. So, anyway that we can speak out, we should do. Anyone that will listen, should hear what we have to say.

    At a minimum, these guys are lying to get what it is THEY want, and NOT what the people want. I have a problem with that LOL

    So, since it seems that we do have some time on our hands with this, people certainly shouldn't rush into anything, but we are going to go ahead and start it now for those wishing to do so.

    The need doesn't arise, we can refund it back. The need does arise, then it's ready to go.

  5. #45
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    I got it Alby.

    They are mostly working quietly behind the scenes, and only use the threat of going public with this, or that, as a hammer to hang over the Politicians heads to get what they want.
    That's the part I liked

    We can't wait for others to win this fight for us; we have to take responsibility ourselves.
    The very point I was trying to make. I don't want to be sitting on the fence, letting everyone else fight the fight, and if it does fly, go around wondering if opening our mouths might have been the extra noise needed to make it go our way. That's my point about taking to the radio station in Alexandria too. His own back yard, so we can point out the lies, versus the facts, to his own constituents.

    An impact being made? I'm not sure of that part yet. It's live talk radio, so only those calling in will give the opportunity to gauge the effectiveness. In any case, it certainly cannot hurt. AND IT'S FREE

  6. #46
    Alby is offline Private Member
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    Nick, I obviously posted, (and sent money to John), at the same time you did.

    I have little experience from US politics and it is clear that you have a lot and I know you are a highly intelligent and experienced man, so I take what you say very seriously, but I must still disagree with some of what you write. I think it is crucial to get this effort started ASAP under our control, instead of relying on some other organisation to pull this off. It is just too important an issue to leave to someone else!

    Pledging money for future efforts is all fine, but when it comes time to donating there is always a good chance that a lot less actually show up in the account. If that is what you suggest people do I suggest the following compromise:

    Donate 10% now of the total amount you are actually willing to donate to this lobbying campaign. That way we know that everyone who donates is serious about actually getting something done and that the money we have is only a fraction of what we could potentially raise.

    As little as I know about US politics it is clear to me that money and votes count, and no politician wants to be seen putting hard-working Americans out of a job, especially when regulation of the industry is a real alternative to this bill, as has been shown in other countries.

    Added: If we want to get a broad base of people to join this effort, including casinos/affiliate programs and players we have to all agree on the right way forward and all work with same plan. If there are internal disagreements on the best way forward in a lobbying effort we will never be able to convince others to support the action we want to take. Therefore if Nick and others do not think my suggested compromise above is acceptable I am would be willing to "fall in line" and support an already existing effort instead, the most important thing is that we really do something. One of the problems I see with The Poker Alliance is that they are being accused of being a front for a few big casino companies like Party Gaming...
    Last edited by Alby; 8 March 2006 at 1:09 pm.

  7. #47
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    The point Nick is trying to make is, I think, that a thousand blunt little arrows will do far less damage than a nice sharp large one.

    BUT

    If these funds were used to fund a media campaign then that would possibly be different. That would be an attempt to reach out and touch another person and provoke a bit of thought along the lines of "big brother WILL tell you when to wipe your bum and when to blow your nose".

    That won't only stir up the radical elements, it will bring home the point to thousands of very normal, middle of the road people.

    The logic Goodlatte uses is fatally flawed. How? It's based on a untruths. I am sure that the industry doesn't finance terrorism. The casinos I know DO investigate every large transaction and thus honor the covenants found within USA PATRIOT Act (HR 3162). Guidelines were laid out and, as far as I am aware, you have the following legs to each transaction:

    1) From bank to NETeller (example) and then to Casino
    2) From bank to Casino direct

    Now, in all these instances, the banks involved are, as far as I am aware, acting with good concience and adhering to the terms laid out in their various countries that conform to and meet the covenants of HR 3162. Add to this that casinos also fall under the same responsibility levels as banks and must report big transactions. So, you have 2, and sometimes even 3 checks and balances in place to ensure that a terrorist organisation is NOT using online gambling as a front for its activities.

    So, with money in AND with money out you have people of good standing monitoring the transaction.

    Where Mr Goodlatte? Where do the terrorists get it right to launder their money? How do they use this industry? You said it. Now show us or expect your bill to be pulled apart.

    Summary.

    Let's all attend tomorrow nights flash chat. It doesn't pay to attack this in a fragmented way. It must be done with the knowledge and cooperation of all interested parties. If the GPWA can lead a media campaign while the other units drive the lobbyists, then perhaps some good can come of it. The pure focus of letting people know about the priniciple and about the lies can only lead to good.
    Last edited by bigbcasinos; 8 March 2006 at 1:26 pm.
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  8. #48
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    Every little bit helps. The Wall Street Journal is having a poll: should congress ban internet gambling (um, the answer is "Hell, no", friends. In case you were confused about our position. Ahem.) Forward to all your friends. Bodog just sent it to me.

    http://discussions.wsj.com/n/mb/mess...sages&msg=3828

  9. #49
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    Just clarify something. I'm not advocating any huge delays, but I am advocating that a specific plan be made, and adhered to.

    As is generally the case when group efforts are involved, there will be a lot of different views as to where, and how the money get's spent.
    We must avoid those problems, and ensure that the money reaches a mutually intended target, and not scattered around ineffectively.
    I feel that step one should be to make a plan, step 2 should be to establish the cost to implement the plan, and step 3 is to raise the money to work that plan if the cost is attainable.

    The concept of starting an initiative just came up here, and needs to be discussed more, and refined to specifics, IMO.
    Once that's done, then everyone can decide if they like that plan, and can support it.

    As I mentioned, I won't fund G.A., and I don't think even with a good effort we can afford to hire a decent Lobbyist.
    As always, I try support any effort. The question for me is to what degree I can support it, depending on what the plan winds up being.

    I mean if John is going run down Pennsylvania Avenue naked, and screaming Power to the Poker Rooms,....
    you know, I might pass on supporting that!

    Then again, it might be worth a few bucks just to see it!

  10. #50
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    Thanks Sulky Girl for the link to the Wall Street Journal voting on this issue. Hope every here votes !

    I am reading and watching all of this with obvious interest. I am a fairly new webmaster in this field and am just beginning to make some money but see the future to be a growth one.

    Can't contribute a grand, but if need be, I can through in a few bucks. Glad its being discussed.

  11. #51
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    This is on a slightly different note but relevant to this thread.

    Today I made about 15 calls trying to locate an office that could tell me if it's allowed/not allowed in the State of Florida to put a sign on an automobile window advertising a gambling portal.

    After finally running down the Fla. State Attorney's office, I spoke with a lady there (no name) who told me that they could not help me in interpreting the law and was ready to hang up.

    I mentioned in closing that it was in regard to ONLINE gambling and she was quick to tell me that online gambling is illegal in the State of Florida!!! I mentioned that there is currently legislation pending to decide that point. She reiterated that this state does not allow online gambling. She then asked me my name and I hung up.

    WOW

    ntaus

  12. #52
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    You should have asked her which specific state law banned online gaming.

    This site doesnt get updated as often as it could, but it does provide a lot of useful information xxhttp://www.gambling-law-us.com/State-Law-Summary/ much of which provides a good read.

  13. #53
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    Hi again, guys...

    I am so happy to see the response here at GPWA! You guys are on top of this for sure! =)

    There is a Wall Street Journal poll online right now about this topic! Go vota and see what the American people are saying about this:

    http://discussions.wsj.com/wsjvoices...ges?msg=3828.1

  14. #54
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    Thanks for posting this, everything helps.

    Come on everyone go and cast your vote!

    Marlene

  15. #55
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    Just clarify something. I'm not advocating any huge delays, but I am advocating that a specific plan be made, and adhered to.
    Nick, I went back and re-read what you wrote once more and I realise I might have slightly misunderstood what you were advocating. As you know my English is not that good...

    I feel that step one should be to make a plan, step 2 should be to establish the cost to implement the plan, and step 3 is to raise the money to work that plan if the cost is attainable.
    I agree that this seems like the best way forward, except that I would ammend step 3 to: Raise the money to work that plan. I think we just have to be creative and get everyone involved in and supporting this effort to raise the money required regardless of the amount, but of course we need to be able to explain to people exactly what they are supporting.

    The pure focus of letting people know about the priniciple and about the lies can only lead to good.
    I am all with Brian on that media attention could turn this thing around. I thought that raising a lot of money from a very broad base of people, (as opposed to only a few wealthy casino owners), and hiring a lobbying firm would be a good way to get the media interested. Maybe it would be even more effective to spend all the money on a media campaign to show the other side of the issue. I think we need to personalise this thing as much as possible in the media, show real people who make a living from the industry and pay tax in the US, (assuming there are any...), as well as the hundreds of thousands of "normal" gamblers who are not gambling addicts and just enjoy to be able to play some Poker or Blackjack online every now and then.

    Just imagine the power of a picture of a teary eyed mother sitting with Oprah explaining that the small business and web site she has built over the last five years to support her family will now be crushed, and Congress is about to make her a criminal for showing people the most reliable and trustworthy sites to play video poker on the Internet.

    So if we follow Nick's lead here and start with step one, (without worrying too much about the cost at this stage), what is the best way to beat this bill?

  16. #56
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    Sorry Nick. EVEN I don't even want to try to picture me running down PA avenue naked.... eeeeeeewwwwww!

    I WOULD HOWEVER, be willing to go over there and proudly display that we are involved in online gambling though

    show real people who make a living from the industry and pay tax in the US, (assuming there are any...),
    Sure Alby. Many of us do. We're a registered corporation in the State of Maryland, closely held, but incorporated nonetheless. I'm actually in process of preparing our tax returns now. We file 1120S, as well as our personal returns, and various other taxes that are standard in any business.

    I think tomorrow, we can also establish which direction we want to take things when we have everyone together.

    Now, I think a media blitz would certainly be a good idea. We would really have to target real hard I think, not only the gambling community, but hit his constituents and his home area really hard as well.

    That's the very market we're trying to hit with the radio show. The show is currently rated number one in Virginia according to the latest Arbitron ratings, in their time slot among men 18 and over, men 18 to 49 and men 25 to 54. That's a lot of people. That could potentially make a lot of noise. So yes, I believe a nice little campaign with them would even be beneficial. We were already looking at that too.
    Last edited by casinoglen; 8 March 2006 at 9:34 pm.

  17. #57
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    I've just published an article of Ateonline.co.uk about our fight. I have left the links for players to contact their representatives and to vote on the Wall Street Journal.

    -> http://www.gambling-pro.com/gambling...le.php?id=2421
    (the article part is taken at: http://www.ateonline.co.uk/ )

    This article has been published in first in our RSS and Javascript newsfeeds, hopefully it will reach lots of players (we have hundreds of sites running our feeds).

    The article is also linked from the front page of an online casino.

    Hope it will help a bit.

    PS: Feel free to reproduce the article. If you use the article part, be sure to give a link to Ateonline.co.uk.
    Last edited by Maxfalcon; 10 March 2006 at 7:57 am.
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  18. #58
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    Wow, this is a pretty long thread and I only read the first couple of pages, so apologies if I'm repeating someone else's comments.

    I'm in the UK, and I believe that the US has already driven out all the on-line casino. These are not illegal, and blocking them would be a further breach of the WTO agreement.

    If they are concerned about minors accessing casinos, then there are two remedies.

    Parents could stop letting their kids use their credit cards.

    We could introduce a "casino" metatag, and parent could activate a filter to stop kids accessing sites with this tag. It could be illegal to have a casino site without such a tag.

  19. #59
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    We could introduce a "casino" metatag, and parent could activate a filter to stop kids accessing sites with this tag. It could be illegal to have a casino site without such a tag.
    And how would this be enforced?
    Randall Ashby (Randy)

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  20. #60
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    The casinos would honor such a law. Firstly their source code can be viewed by accomplished law enforcement officials and secondly this would put the ball in the court of moms and dads, rather than asking the rest of the world to discipline their kids for them.

    It's amazing though, a kid can access most anything on the net without the barriers that an online casino alreads provides and yet the casino/minors issue is a hot potato.

    Bring it on, lets see how many kids do gamble online. I wonder how many bet on the horses by sending the oldest in a group to place a bet. Bet it outnumbers the kids who got it right to beat the system many times over. For a fact, this is a system used to procure cigarettes and alcohol. Send in the eldest and get the goods. At least with an online casino, the transaction is NOT cash and is limited to the holder of the credit card/bank account/e-wallet. At least this doesn't let multiple kids simultaneously break the law.

    Yeah, I reckon the casinos would honor it. The question is whether the parents would take the time and trouble to install or activate the filter settings.
    Have a wonderful day

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