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  1. #1
    Malikbhai is offline Public Member
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    Default Why even bother promoting Forex Brokers

    When compared to casino, sports, or even binary options.

    All programmes usually give out 5% to 30% of the losses of the punters.

    For these typical forex brokers, that give out x% of the pip spread, most of the deposits are taken away by them while only giving out penny commissions to their affiliates.

    Say a person deposits $30,000 in a casino, loses all of it, the affiliate may end up earning $8 - $9,000 (30%).

    If the same person deposits $30k with a typical forex broker and places 10 trades for 1 standard lot (say broker pays $15 per standard lot) before losing his money, the affiliate will get paid $15 x 10 = $150.*

    Bloody rip off. The broker ends up pocketing $29,850.

    There is just general madness around affiliates who just promote these run of the mill MT4 forex brokers.

    I want to know why this allure exits, when there is so much more money to be made in casino, sports and binary options, that pay out of customer losses/total deposits.


    * For those who are new to forex trading

    1 standard lot = 100,000 in currency, say USD

    This also means $10 loss/win per pip move. So if a currency moves 100 pips against the trader, he would end up losing $1000. In this scenario, the broker would earn $1000, while paying out the affiliate only $30. If this were a binary options trade, the affiliate could have made up to $300 (30% commission).

    Why on earth would an affiliate work hard for these forex brokers is beyond me.

  2. #2
    Malikbhai is offline Public Member
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    And all these Metaquotes brokers (MT4, MT5) etc., are bucket shops. The forex orders aren't going to any bank like they promote on the front end website.

    The affiliates know the truth, but these brokers are not truly sharing their revenues with the very people that bring them all this business.

    To add a bit more fun to the entire weirdness of the situation, this market is actually saturated with affiliates running around to earn their $20 bucks of action.

    Don't know whether it is due the lack of knowledge around affiliate business, or a lot of affiliates generally don't want to be associated with online casinos and sports betting, an advantage that goes in the side of these forex brokers which they then exploit.

  3. #3
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    Well while many may or may not agree that considering not bothering to promte forex could be a wise decision, to stop promoting forex only to promote binary options certainly is NOT a good choice for replacement in my opinion.

    The binary options market if far more loaded with complaints and blatant scam companies promoting binary options then even forex.

    Neither forex promotions nor binary options should be promoted or sold as "investments" but there are very few sites out there advertising these verticals that aren't loaded with articles and keywords luring in new players pitching them as investing etc....and very few explain the gambling side of the niche.

    Rick
    Universal4

  4. #4
    Malikbhai is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by universal4 View Post
    Well while many may or may not agree that considering not bothering to promte forex could be a wise decision, to stop promoting forex only to promote binary options certainly is NOT a good choice for replacement in my opinion.

    The binary options market if far more loaded with complaints and blatant scam companies promoting binary options then even forex.

    Neither forex promotions nor binary options should be promoted or sold as "investments" but there are very few sites out there advertising these verticals that aren't loaded with articles and keywords luring in new players pitching them as investing etc....and very few explain the gambling side of the niche.

    Rick
    Universal4
    Absolutely agree with every sentence, when it is pertaining to the buy side (client side), but my query was related to the scamming on the affiliates side of the business as well. Forex/Binary Brokers in particular cheat both their clients and their affiliates.

    All you guys who promote sports and casino earn way more per client than a typical forex affiliate would. A very good forex affiliate would have to deliver thousands of clients to earn the same amount an average sports affiliate can earn in under 500 depositors.

    As far as the dirtiness goes, we'all live and breathe in it. At least with certain sports/casino brands, some level of client-respect exists, only due to the government hitting its bat on the head of many operators.

  5. #5
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    You clearly state that players are getting burned, but recommend promoting anyway.

    Rick
    Universal4

  6. #6
    Malikbhai is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by universal4 View Post
    You clearly state that players are getting burned, but recommend promoting anyway.

    Rick
    Universal4
    There're a few reasonably acceptable BO players (heck, may be one or two), that honor client withdrawal requests on occasions.

    Most don't.

    Most BO companies are boiler room operations.

    My thread was more a question aimed at the mentality of the affiliates who work very hard for traditional MT4 brokers, only to get pennies on the dollar, whereas they can get a lot more return for promoting sports, for example.

    Gambling/Trading/Investing industry is like that. We don't have to pretend that Casinos, Sports betting, Banks, Stock Brokerages, Hedge Funds are beacons of integrity, while everyone else is a thug.

    We all operate in the grey area, and should ease it with the made up BS to satisfy our nice guy egos.
    Last edited by Malikbhai; 27 October 2017 at 5:17 pm.

  7. #7
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    I try to work with casinos and bookies that pay players when they win and do not promote the properties as a form of investments.

    Most binary promoters promote it and investments (which it is not) and since most binary operators do not pay their players I see the 2 niches as have HUGE differences in respectability and integrity.

    Sure it's obvious some casino and sports operators are less than honorable to their players, and when that is revealed I try at least to stop sending them traffic and encourage others not to start working with them. There are clear distinctions.

    Rick
    Universal4

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  9. #8
    sugarfree is offline Private Member
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    Why even bother promoting Forex Brokers?

    Here are a few reason:

    #1 Lower competition
    Ranking a site for various FX terms is considerably easier (and less resourceful) than ranking a casino / betting sites.

    #2 You can go beyond SEO
    You may use other channels: Goole and Facebook ads etc. This is not possible with the casinos.

    #3 Different type of a customer
    FX customers are looking to make money online instead of losing it. The wrapping is much more legitimate. Also, brokers have different ways of attracting these customers: webinars, contests etc, while casinos and betting sites offer only bonuses.

    #4 Amazing CPA
    I doubt any casino or a betting site will offer you a CPA anywhere close to FX. Some brokers pay $1000 for a trader from a nice location.

    #5 Broker's conversion
    Many brokers have sales teams that are helping a lot to convert your traffic.

    Those are my top reasons why one can choose FX over gambling affiliation.

    Now lemme comment a bit more since you've touched the payouts and the broker's revenue model.

    1) Not every broker is a market maker (betting against the client). Most of them are, but not every broker is. There are actual brokers that transmit the orders to the market. Usually, their payouts suck, so they aren't interesting for affiliates.

    2) Yes, the rev. share in FX sucks...unless you get some special type of traffic that is expected to perform many trades over the years (e.g. you promote education or work with extra-large accounts). Yet your examples aren't correct. I can't imagine anyone with a 30k deposit to burn his account after 10 trading lots. Also, keep in mind that you are getting paid per side, hence 10 trading lots ($150 in commissions) will only be 5 trades. Typically, a 30k deposit could generate some 250 lots easily. Still, this will be slightly over than 10% when compared to the broker's revenue.

    3) You may also get the same "rev. share" model in FX as the casinos are offering. It is called linear loss. Almost no broker will publicly state it on its website, but you can negotiate, some brokers will be up for that.

    4) CPA is a much better way to monetize your traffic in FX, and you are unable to get such CPAs elsewhere.

    5) Its ok for the broker to get more than affiliate gets when compared to a casino. In FX, a broker is expected to more in terms of converting and retaining the customer.

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  11. #9
    Malikbhai is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by sugarfree View Post
    Why even bother promoting Forex Brokers?

    Here are a few reason:

    #1 Lower competition
    Ranking a site for various FX terms is considerably easier (and less resourceful) than ranking a casino / betting sites.

    #2 You can go beyond SEO
    You may use other channels: Goole and Facebook ads etc. This is not possible with the casinos.

    #3 Different type of a customer
    FX customers are looking to make money online instead of losing it. The wrapping is much more legitimate. Also, brokers have different ways of attracting these customers: webinars, contests etc, while casinos and betting sites offer only bonuses.

    #4 Amazing CPA
    I doubt any casino or a betting site will offer you a CPA anywhere close to FX. Some brokers pay $1000 for a trader from a nice location.

    #5 Broker's conversion
    Many brokers have sales teams that are helping a lot to convert your traffic.

    Those are my top reasons why one can choose FX over gambling affiliation.

    Now lemme comment a bit more since you've touched the payouts and the broker's revenue model.

    1) Not every broker is a market maker (betting against the client). Most of them are, but not every broker is. There are actual brokers that transmit the orders to the market. Usually, their payouts suck, so they aren't interesting for affiliates.

    2) Yes, the rev. share in FX sucks...unless you get some special type of traffic that is expected to perform many trades over the years (e.g. you promote education or work with extra-large accounts). Yet your examples aren't correct. I can't imagine anyone with a 30k deposit to burn his account after 10 trading lots. Also, keep in mind that you are getting paid per side, hence 10 trading lots ($150 in commissions) will only be 5 trades. Typically, a 30k deposit could generate some 250 lots easily. Still, this will be slightly over than 10% when compared to the broker's revenue.

    3) You may also get the same "rev. share" model in FX as the casinos are offering. It is called linear loss. Almost no broker will publicly state it on its website, but you can negotiate, some brokers will be up for that.

    4) CPA is a much better way to monetize your traffic in FX, and you are unable to get such CPAs elsewhere.

    5) Its ok for the broker to get more than affiliate gets when compared to a casino. In FX, a broker is expected to more in terms of converting and retaining the customer.
    This is the reply I was looking for. Thank you.

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  13. #10
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    Hmmm so even though the majority agree how bad players and affiliates are treated and even outright cheated, let's all do it.

    Anyone got current sub-affiliate links for Buffalo, AffPower and maybe even GrandPrive?

    Rick
    Universal4

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  15. #11
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    Hello All,

    Please kindly keep in mind that there are Forex affiliate programs like Plus500 which gives even $700 CPA per FTD from UK and much more countries.

    So as far as I see, you are ng the matter only on a revenue share basis but if you are an affiliate on a CPA basis, the results would be hugely different than you describe.

    And regarding BO vs. FX issue, FX will never end but if BO will not be regulated, then it may soon disappear...!

    Cheers!

  16. #12
    Malikbhai is offline Public Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by top10casinosites View Post
    Hello All,

    Please kindly keep in mind that there are Forex affiliate programs like Plus500 which gives even $700 CPA per FTD from UK and much more countries.

    So as far as I see, you are ng the matter only on a revenue share basis but if you are an affiliate on a CPA basis, the results would be hugely different than you describe.

    And regarding BO vs. FX issue, FX will never end but if BO will not be regulated, then it may soon disappear...!

    Cheers!
    Everything in the financial world, say FX, Stocks, Real Estate, Traditional Casinos etc., are all types of gambling from the "buyers" side, the only issue is the ability of the market maker/seller to fulfill its obligations.

    When banks crash, the government has to come in for the rescue, but this does not mean that the banks do not sell their products the same way a boiler room does. Regulation can only act as a deterrence but cannot stop the gambling behavior of both the buyer and seller of the financial products.

    The problem with Binary Options is on the seller side. No market maker can gamble on issuing 3x or 4x times the returns - thinking that the buyer side would lose most of the time - and still end up victorious at the end of the day.

    The return levels need to be regulated on Binary Options, and put in accordance with the traditional stock and fx options. This way the market makers would be able to bet against the trade, and also payout when they lose without breaking their back.

    Binary Options are no different than buying stocks - the issue comes about when the seller/broker/market maker is unable to fulfill its liabilities due to ridiculous promises of returns.

    Binary Options can become a very good speculative trading product for regulated options markets provided the returns per trade are regulated to say 1% to 20%, or to however the main options markets are priced.
    Last edited by Malikbhai; 30 October 2017 at 5:39 pm.

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  18. #13
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    Hello,

    I completely agree with you. By saying "Regulation" I meant the same. If the payouts will be limited by regulation in BO, then it will become more solid and secure.

    And one thing I trust wholeheartedly is that, "Natural Selection" is the ultimate balance tool. As we see in the BO sector, everyday a broker disappears one-by-one. And the ones who stay are the ones who invest for long-term.

    And one more thing; I believe that BO will be a part of FX brokers. I mean BO and FX trading will be served by the same brokers.

    Let's wait and see.

    Cheers!

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