William Hill Affiliates SCAM

[Roulette Zeitung]

In my case, they violated the terms and conditions, since the T&C say nothing about minimum FTD/NDC/REGS, etc. to benefit from previously referred customers (Rev Share Lifetime Deal).

It doesn't matter, since they have to respect their T&C that says nothing about it, just lifetime commission from all players referred.

Unfortunately, this statements are so in general not correct.

From the William Hill terms*:

"7. TERM AND TERMINATION
7.1 Term and Termination
[...]
7.1.3 Notwithstanding the provisions of clause 7.1.1 above, the Operator may immediately terminate this Agreement if it determines, at its sole discretion:
[...]
7.1.3.10 that there is no activity in the Affiliate’s account for continuous forty five day period, in which case this Agreement will be deemed to have been terminated by the Affiliate without notice. For the purposes of this clause 7.1.3.9 the term “no activity” shall mean no new Customers introduced by the Affiliate."

Bonus Track*

"Revenue Reward Plan Table
[...]
At any time where 3 calendar months have passed without the Affiliate directing at least four Customers to the Operator’s Sites, the default Revenue Reward set out in the table above and any other Revenue Reward agreed by the parties in writing at any time shall no longer apply and instead shall be set at 5% of all Online Gaming Products and Sportsbook."

*Source: https://affiliates.williamhill.com/about-us/tcs

Leopold

[Harry69]

I know it's frustrating,but why not contact them,ask them if they will repay all your commissions of you start sending traffic again? I've had this happen before and a month later they increased my revshare too (not William Hill though)

[universal4]

Here is a scenario that makes these terms far worse then you can imagine.

Lets say you are on a higher percentage and you score a huge winner and are now down say 30 grand, and suddenly you experience a down turn and have a bland period where you do not refer enough players and poof you are on 5%.

You now have to pay the negative back at 5%, even though the negative might have been from 30-36% or maybe even more.

Yes they can and will do this, I know of specific cases where they did.

Rick
Universal4

[Vargoso]

Here is a scenario that makes these terms far worse then you can imagine.

Lets say you are on a higher percentage and you score a huge winner and are now down say 30 grand, and suddenly you experience a down turn and have a bland period where you do not refer enough players and poof you are on 5%.

You now have to pay the negative back at 5%, even though the negative might have been from 30-36% or maybe even more.

Yes they can and will do this, I know of specific cases where they did.

Rick
Universal4

That's what I asked if they changed they broke T&Cs or the T&Cs were just predatory (like it seems to be according to your example) because the topic name has the word scam in big letters.

[Sherlock]

Here is a scenario that makes these terms far worse then you can imagine.

Lets say you are on a higher percentage and you score a huge winner and are now down say 30 grand, and suddenly you experience a down turn and have a bland period where you do not refer enough players and poof you are on 5%.

You now have to pay the negative back at 5%, even though the negative might have been from 30-36% or maybe even more.

Yes they can and will do this, I know of specific cases where they did.

Rick
Universal4

It is like Pinnacle, but they give you 0%. I wonder which affiliates will come with -5% if you do not refer enough players.

[AussiePunter]

Where did I read about how much money William Hill lost last year? I think it was something like 800mil? AUD or GBP I can't remember.

I wish I had listened to the affiliates over the pond who said that William Hill couldn't be trusted way back when, but in Australia, we didn't have a huge amount of choice as to who we could promote, and you know how it goes - once you build up a customer base, it's hard to simply let that income disappear.

The closed their AU operations at the end of last year, at least they paid my my final invoice, but they sold my clients to another company (Matthew Tripp's BetEasy) and I won't be seeing any of the income that I'd built up over 15+ years, even though the agreement I accepted when I joined was that I'd be getting "Revenue Share For Life". Well, since I'm typing this, I am not dead. And since they have sold their - sorry, my customers to another Australian company, they are still alive too. Perhaps they have a different definition of the phrase "for life" than I do.

Interesting. I wonder if every other Australian affiliate of William Hill was screwed out of their entire customer base too.

Unfortunately, the company that William Hill sold my customers to, owned by Matthew Tripp, owes me at least 6 figures, which I know from when I could log in to my account at Bet Easy, however I don't believe the $10-20k a month I was earning simply stopped as soon as they cancelled my login credentials, so I assume they owe me more than that.

By the way, are there any other Aussies here who were affiliates of William Hill's Australian affiliate program before they shut down? Or perhaps if anyone at BetEasy wants to contact me, you know how, ask Michael or Niluka - the two that ignored me for months, surely you still know my email address, I'd love to hear from you if you want to try to make things right.

[ocreditor]

...
Unfortunately, the company that William Hill sold my customers to, owned by Matthew Tripp, owes me at least 6 figures, which I know from when I could log in to my account at Bet Easy, however I don't believe the $10-20k a month I was earning simply stopped as soon as they cancelled my login credentials, so I assume they owe me more than that.

By the way, are there any other Aussies here who were affiliates of William Hill's Australian affiliate program before they shut down? Or perhaps if anyone at BetEasy wants to contact me, you know how, ask Michael or Niluka - the two that ignored me for months, surely you still know my email address, I'd love to hear from you if you want to try to make things right.

This is what they and many other operators are doing in this industry unfortunately, they sell your players after promising you the sky with "log-term" revenue and "partnerships", just send us your players and sign 50 pages of T&C that we can do anything we like at any time...
The conclusion is one, start charge setup-fees on top of your commission to secure you revenue and your valuble traffic, charge it from every new operator you dont know anything about, and from potentially risk operators to work with such as wh, remember that you're a business and you also have your t&c.

[Agne]

I understand that to close an account due to no response, is a violation of Terms and Conditions. However, from my experiences, a lot of Affiliates are never responding - so I see why William Hill is sending this message. I have so many affiliates that completely ignore me asking them to change old bonuses, or update information. I always send an e-mail with new links and trackers, all the info that needs to be changed, etc. and receive nothing in return (of course, not all affiliates are like that - there are a good bunch of good ones too!). So it's safe to assume, that none of the operators wants to work with affiliates that are not responsive... I understand that everyone has a massive workload, but when you send e-mail after e-mail, it would be nice that affiliates would at least send a response back. We would never close an account due to this, but to hear from our affiliates from time to time would be nice. It has to work two ways to get the best results possible

[Triple7]

I understand that to close an account due to no response, is a violation of Terms and Conditions. However, from my experiences, a lot of Affiliates are never responding - so I see why William Hill is sending this message. I have so many affiliates that completely ignore me asking them to change old bonuses, or update information. I always send an e-mail with new links and trackers, all the info that needs to be changed, etc. and receive nothing in return (of course, not all affiliates are like that - there are a good bunch of good ones too!). So it's safe to assume, that none of the operators wants to work with affiliates that are not responsive... I understand that everyone has a massive workload, but when you send e-mail after e-mail, it would be nice that affiliates would at least send a response back. We would never close an account due to this, but to hear from our affiliates from time to time would be nice. It has to work two ways to get the best results possible

I must say we get a lot of bs emails every day. Some programs send almost everything with capslock on, with the addition of "urgent" or things like that and 9 out of 10 times it isn't relevant, urgent either, etc. Some of those emails are 300+ words and then at the end, it's clear it's just for a GEO we do not even serve. Or have to confirm something which isn't even relevant, etc.

[Agne]

I must say we get a lot of bs emails every day. Some programs send almost everything with capslock on, with the addition of "urgent" or things like that and 9 out of 10 times it isn't relevant, urgent either, etc. Some of those emails are 300+ words and then at the end, it's clear it's just for a GEO we do not even serve. Or have to confirm something which isn't even relevant, etc.

I understand this issue. We send newsletters to our Affiliates as well (not too frequently I have to say). What I mean is, affiliates don't even care to respond when the e-mail/skype message, is sent personally (I actually ask to change links, information, or want to have a chat regarding results - really, nothing spammy), however, I receive no response. I think it's natural to assume, when someone is not responding, using outdated information, and bonuses that are no longer valid for months, are not interested to work with you... Unless I am wrong and there is another reason why they don't want to talk to me Anyway, I understand both sides - I wouldn't be happy if someone closed my account, but I wouldn't be happy as well when an affiliate is ignoring me completely. So safe to say, it's very important to choose with whom to work

[casinowinners]

Truth is I am personally not surprised by everyone's experience with William Hill's aff program. Let's face it, if you're such as big brand you can be as picky as you want with who you do business with and what requirements you set. Will this backfire on them eventually? I assume so, but with them being such a big brand, I imagine that even if a large number of their affiliates drop out of the program they would still survive somehow. It's not like they depend entirely on referrals to make money.

[Sherlock]

Let's face it, if you're such as big brand you can be as picky as you want with who you do business with and what requirements you set.

Then bet365 must be doing something wrong because they are not thieves?

If you are a big guy in distant place in Somalia and there is abandoned girl, can you do whatever you want with her? Technically yes, but you should not, because your ghosts will go after you.

I always imagine how productive people can be at a honest company like Bet365 and at thieves like WH. I truly believe in the end and longterm is more effective not to steal because of integrity. The people at WH take more antidepressives, are less committed do worse business decisions and so on. Because they clearly see they work for thieves and therefore are the thieves. And for employees who decided to go 9 to 5 (6, 7) and have a "nice simple life" I believe this is a problem. And then it is a problem for the company (because company is from one point of view just the sum of employees) and also for the revenues.

[Toni]

They are loosing lots of their affiliates and it costs them money. I mean:

https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/williamhillcasino.com
https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/eurogrand.com

Two of their brands, nealy 0 Traffic anymore. They were big in germany in the past with the two brands. Now nobody cares about them anymore. Totaly out of the race because of stupid decisions.

[FSB]

They are loosing lots of their affiliates and it costs them money. I mean:

https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/williamhillcasino.com
https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/eurogrand.com

Two of their brands, nealy 0 Traffic anymore. They were big in germany in the past with the two brands. Now nobody cares about them anymore. Totaly out of the race because of stupid decisions.

Hooray! Bad Karma do the job

[AussiePunter]

RE: Agne

A lot of the time, responding to questions such as "why can't you send us 100+ signups this month, we are having a promotion! is because perhaps we are looking after a loved one, dying of cancer who has weeks to live and our time is better spent.

Other times, they ask us questions that don't even deserve a response. I don't want to get angry at you in particular, but I don't think any affiliate manager I've had has actually helped with anything except for helping me get paid when it was days, weeks or even months late. They've never helped me get business, offered me any advice on new marketing methods or SEO techniques. They've always treated me like I was worth less than them, regardless of who was supposed to be working for whom (with the exception of a couple over the many years I've been in business) and since I wasn't a whale, but neither was I a minnow, I felt that I was not being disrespectful if they asked a stupid question and got no response.

If they needed me to sign a legal agreement due to changes in laws etc, I'd do my best, but if it was them saying "try this new banner on your website, because I think I know your traffic better than you do" even if it was a tennis ad on a football site ffs.