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  1. #41
    justbookies is offline Private Member
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    I am sure william hill will work this out and be happy once again with their playtech / cpays /affutd partners again, unfortunately. Such an ill-informed tie-up. Were WH so scared of the online environment they had to farm it out to such an extent without doing proper due diligence on the people they were getting involved with (CPays!)? Whatever, we no longer promote William Hill. Reason: the affiliate software is rubbish, the sales pitch is like the pushiest bunch of second-hand car salesmen (it is an insult to all affiliates who they must think are morons) and we just don't trust them. Why? Cpays. Why? We have had stats that make absolutely no sense at all. I no longer care whether that is because of the software problems (the affutd software is so dire), their lack of honesty or problems with our interpretation of their nonsensical stats. The relationship is about trust. We have no trust in them . . . and we made that decision long before this guy apparently refused William Hill access to their own data. The data he is allegedly trying to hide has your affiliate stats on it.
    Last edited by justbookies; 22 October 2011 at 5:13 am.

  2. #42
    smallfish is offline New Member
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    Unhappy Links are working, tracking not reflecting

    I have to agree with the host of comments about the quality of the affiliate backend - it's terrible. The revenue share figures often don't correspond with the stats and get updated at odd times.

    The WH banners now appear up and running however the tracking is still not reflecting in the backend. I can't imagine it will be down very long though considering WH at least is a listed entity in the UK.

  3. #43
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  4. #44
    star is offline Public Member
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    Sooner or later William Hill will have to run its own in-house affiliate program. I wonder why this is not the case already anyway.

  5. #45
    JackTenSuited is offline Private Member
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    very true, you would think a brand as large as them could afford to run a very good inhouse program

  6. #46
    FictionNet is offline Closed by Request
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    Im pretty sure thats exactly what they used to do.

  7. #47
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanimus View Post
    very true, you would think a brand as large as them could afford to run a very good inhouse program

    I don't agree a large company = a successful affiliate program or indeed online operation....without naming names there are some v big operators out there with awful aff programs and survive more because of their brand than their program.....I think this is often because the senior management don't view affiliates as "must haves" but more as parasites they have to work with, in addition I often see internal systems or politics either slow things down or just interfere in the program. Smaller programs often depend on affiliates more as it's their major acquisition channel so decisions, changes etc can be made fast with attention from the CEO often resulting in a better and more friendly program.

    That said this isn't a hard and fast rule, look at programs like bet365 or pkr (amongst others) who are big mainstream brands but still see the value in affiliates but this is because they have buy in from the senior board.

    Also I am pretty sure pre the playtech deal will hill online wasn't doing that well....just dug out these pr's post the deal and you can see playtech made a big difference so if they split it isn't guaranteed that this will continue or in fact affiliates will be part of the priority which they are at the moment

    35% up 2009
    http://www.williamhillplc.com/wmh/me...pr/2010-01-20/

    24% up 2010
    http://www.williamhillplc.com/wmh/me...2011-02-25.pdf
    Last edited by alexpratt; 23 October 2011 at 3:28 am. Reason: Auto correct separated play and tech
    iGB Affiliate - The biggest magazine and events for affiliates in igaming

  9. #49
    JackTenSuited is offline Private Member
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    Is anyone else unable to login to their stats today?

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by deanimus View Post
    Is anyone else unable to login to their stats today?
    I have access to my stats!

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  12. #51
    FictionNet is offline Closed by Request
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    I do remember that when William Hill ran their own in-house program (when the casino was Cryptologic), their affiliate managers were up there with the best in the business. Friendly, approachable and helpful.

    Things have obviously changed but its what weve got to work with right now. Lets try to make the best of it. Ive made my thoughts known about the WH/CPays venture a few times and as justbookies has already mentioned, it will always appear to be a massive lack of due diligence on the part of WH but its where we are now. I expect this partnership to be short-lived. In the meantime, we either have to work with what weve got or not promote them. And lets be honest, things are far better at WH (for affiliates) than we expected in our worst nightmares when we discovered the CPays involvement. Yep, the stats can be insane (all I can work out is total revenue - Ive given up getting access to anything more detailed) and support from MOST of AffUtd staff is like talking to a brick wall but some things have been a pleasant surprise (regular, fast payments). Just think how bad things could have turned out...

    Yeah, a surprisingly upbeat post from me. I think moving outta England is having a positive effect

  13. #52
    Benitho is offline Private Member
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    I actually dumped WH from 99% of my pages a few days before this went down. For almost a year now, I was not able to get a reasonable explanation on some statistics, especially subaffiliate revenue, where they wanted to tell me that it is simply not possible to get a proper calculation between two excel-columns going and they had to do everything by hand. But even with doing things by hand, to this day I have not received any subaff-payment. Over the years, there were lots more irregularities. I can`t even remember them all.

    I also strongly feel, that not a single affiliate with active subaffiliates has EVER been paid the correct commission on the subs...

    Good bookie, awful affiliateprogram, what a shame...
    Ben

  14. #53
    theGman is offline Public Member
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    Things have obviously changed but its what weve got to work with right now.
    Sorry mate - disagree with this post

    Um no, you dont have to work with it - how can you want to promote them if the PLC is blocked out of reporting and day to day activityby ex Cpays staff - why would you send traffic to a place that could be doing anything to your traffic . There are enough quality alternatives to say - sod that - im sending my traffic elsewhere.

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  16. #54
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    There are'nt many affs out there who could'nt tell Billhill working with this shower will end in tears. For Billhill not to be given access to thier own players stats is ridiculous.

  17. #55
    FictionNet is offline Closed by Request
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    Quote Originally Posted by theGman View Post
    how can you want to promote them if the PLC is blocked out of reporting and day to day activityby ex Cpays staff
    Thats what Im doing at the moment.

    Edit: I mean, Im NOT pushing them, at the moment. But watching what happens.
    Last edited by FictionNet; 24 October 2011 at 12:47 pm.

  18. #56
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  19. #57
    grem's Avatar
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  21. #58
    TheBoyMitchell is offline Private Member
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  23. #59
    justbookies is offline Private Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBoyMitchell View Post

    Thanks for posting this. Very interesting article. You can be sure this is the tip of the iceberg in terms of dishonesty.
    Who was Topping 'furious' with? Himself or the crooks he handed the business to?
    Plus these crooks are planning setting up again. After cpays it's Affutd and now we are gonna get another cpays again.
    The Affiliates United / AffUtd stats need to be re-run with correct data from day one.

  24. #60
    tomgalanis is offline Non-sponsor Affiliate Program
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    Incredibly interesting. Sod the stats they've been fiddling, I more worried about the money I lost playing against them on the PAF table tennis table in Barcelona! Cheats!

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