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  1. #1
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    Angry Withdraw of crypto from exchanges

    So I've been lurking around for the past few months, about crypto and got involved a month ago. I've made some decent profits since April and decided to lock some profit. Boy was I surprised when my bank returned the SEPA transfer. Still without any red lights I went for the instant debit to my card for a hefty 1% fee, paid 20 EUR and got my money within 5 minutes.

    Made a second transfer yesterday for similar amount, but it has been well over 24hrs now. I'm on Binance, and apparently most of the banks here have stopped allowing their customers to deposit and withdraw. Currently it's not in my account but it hasn't been returned either. Bank doesn't know where it is, and Binance are telling it went through. From what I see it's in some sort of a limbo.

    If I only knew the reason for the first fail was "bank has returned the payment", but the guy was so lost with his English kept calling me Miss, so I thought it was some sort of a name mix up.

    From what I see my options are now iCard or Binance Visa.. ?

    Since April, Revolut has stopped allowing transfers as well. While I get the anti-money laundering laws, and the fear of bad money being cashed out, jesus I'm simply cashing out some gains that are barely 2k.

    I'm so tired of being looked over like a criminal. What do you promote? Casinos? Yeah gambling money laundering guy. What are you trading? Cryptos? Yeah definitely drug money.

    I wonder if there's country where all of this is not an issue or if anyone has a method that works and will not fall down tomorrow.
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    Coinbase allows us to withdraw dollars to Paypal for free here in the USA. Looks like both Coinbase and Paypal are available in Switzerland.

    I'm not a fan of crypto and pass as little money through it as possible, but haven't had any problems so far.

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    Not 100% sure which country you are in (edit: I see your in Switzerland, not 100% sure crypto.com mentioned below works there but worth looking into).

    Michael mentioned Coinbase, also works great in US and Canada. Usually though best practice is don't go direct to Coinbase from anything gambling related. So have the casino affiliate payment sent first to a wallet, I just use Trust app or BRD App, then i send on to Coinbase to cash out.

    As well Crypto.com is a good option if available in your country. They have a debit card, only available some countries, but that works well also, just put Bitcoin in your crypto.com account, and you can withdraw it using the card, or just spend it. It basically works as a prepaid visa essentially.

    There's other roads also to unload crypto for cash, but the fees start accumlating. For example you might have bitcoin ATM's around if you are in a big city, but they usually screw you pretty hard on the exchange rate. Also sites like Paxful people will buy your crypto for various payout options, the rate will depend on the payout method.
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  5. #4
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    Crypto.com is mobile devices only. (too bad)

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    If you can ofc try Binance VISA. There is no doubt. Best solution. Binance is right now so hot company that is trying to resolve exactly the problem that the legacy banks have. Crypto.com is the same, but - just my uninformed thought - a bit shadier than binance.

    Otherwise what I keep tellling for years, the solution is either to have a good relationship with a bank or to have your own bank (a bit costly solution for 2k payouts).

    Kraken is also preparing their own banking licence. Simply we are in the middle of a war or legacy financial systems and the new systems. It is definitely possible the legacy systems will win. Who knows.

    Please keep in mind that bounced payments from exchange to a bank has notthing to do with gambling. It is a problem with crypto. Two separate problems: both gambling and crypto has marked you and your family and pets as criminals. But if teh exchange was processed at the exchange and the payout initiated, you passed step 1 and laundered the gambling money. But then you need to pass step 2 and resolve the problem with crypto funds.

    Binance card IMHO really should be the solution for now (for Europaean states).
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    Interested in whether you think those that do go after the licenses will be harmful to them specifically or not?

    Or do you possibly see other existing banks partnering up with exchanges to try and overcome this?

    Rick
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    Interested in whether you think those that do go after the licenses will be harmful to them specifically or not?
    Who goes after licences? You mean after banking licences? After a banking licence goes only a central bank. Central banks are the most uniformed people nowadays when it is about money. It is unpredictable what they will do. In many countries central bank is a state defacto, and politicians also do not know what they are doing. Most likely some states will support crypto simply through the best method - doing nothing. Either the enlightened up or those that are in a really bad state. The other countries will be a hell.

    Or do you possibly see other existing banks partnering up with exchanges to try and overcome this?
    Again what I keep saying for years. The exchanges will be banks. In case of Binance one can say with the VISA card they already are the bank. Binance right now is on track to be the world biggest bank in one generation.* There is Binance lending/borrowing. You get the card. The money in new generation of banks you move for yourself in your app, where only you have the control. That is it! It is a bank.

    Plus binance is having their BSC, in other words they have ambition now to provide the whole de-fi infrastructure. While the effort is pretty centralised, it is for time being doing incredible thing in fnancial space and it shows their ambitions. So binance in a way has even greater ambitions now than be just a normal crypto bank like Kraken. They want even get a cake of the underlying infrastructure. This blending I think will be common. Crypto banks will melt/join with miners/stakers. Meanwhile a common man will have a problem to withdraw 2k to a legacy bank.

    High manager from one Liechtenstein bank, wrote to me few days ago, after the battle that he is doing for his client (Forbes top 100) inside of his own bank with their compliance department:


    I gave up fighting
    If it’s over, it’s over - too bad for some guys but there’s not much left I can do


    *I am saying they are on track. Not that this will happen. But I would take a bet that the biggest bank in 20 years will be based on crypto foundations. Binance is simply progressive like Bet365 20 years ago. But many things can go wrong in a few seconds. And the BSC that is like centralised, cheaper and faster ETH used only to de-fi, can (and most likely will) break down from many angles anytime. I am not shilling it. But the spirit to fight the legacy systems can be felt there plus Binance ecosystem right now is co-creating the posthalving rally/bubble.
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    I meant gambling as a separate issue, you know for being an affiliate, unrelated to this issue. My transfer went through after 48 hours, despite the hefty 20 eur fee for a 2k deposit. SEPAs are out of the question, they 100% block them.

    My Binance card is on the way, and I've setup iCard for now as well.

    I'm currently not in Switzerland, but in Bulgaria. My country of residence is here, so in a way I kind of have to do my dealings here. In addition I've been a client for 15y and my company is also here. A swiss account was considered, but my lawyer and I decided to postpone it for later.

    I was just taken by surprise that crypto is considered as something BAD. Like I started this thread, I'm pretty new to the whole field compared to many of you, and as someone who uses their head on day to day bases it didn't strike me as anything to be fraud upon.

    To banks here are from the socialism times. They are do not see the future in blockchain, they see death to their monopoly and stupid pointless taxes. Things like deposit tax, for depositing YOUR money in THEIR bank, tax for "TAKING CARE" of your money monthly and so on. Rather than being happy that you've chosen them, they are acting now you should be grateful that they've taken you.

    Sadly companies like Revolut that started strong, have now caved in and DO NOT accept transfers from or to Binance, though some still go through. In reality an online bank that does this becomes literally USELESS.
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    Quite a joke that Revolut pushes customers into buying crypto but doesn't allow transfers from Binance...
    "Semper paratus!"
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    Can recommendate coinspaid. Best app ever
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    I don't know about other exchanges, but Coinbase recently began offering (U.S. customers, at least) "off network transactions" to save time and money. So they are acting more like a bank now. I don't know how far down that path they are going.

    However, even these non-blockchain transactions used to sustain the blockchain will be limited in what they can accomplish.

    There are three problems with blockchain:

    1) Processing is incredibly inefficient and slow compared to other storage architectures

    2) The transaction fees increase faster than those of other storage systems

    3) Their demand for electricity grows at an unsustainable rate

    It's most likely the electricity demands that will kill blockchain in 10-15 years, unless someone comes up with a way to reduce the electricity requirements for cryptomining.

    Cambridge University released a study in which they estimated that electricity demands for bitcoin mining increased 80% last year.

    Bitcoin's energy consumption has jumped 80% since the beginning of 2020, according to a study from Cambridge | Currency News | Financial and Business News | Markets Insider (businessinsider.com)

    But merely the fact that 1 or more exchanges have now resorted to offering non-blockchain resolution for blockchain users shows the system is sagging under its own weight.

    Gambling affiliates have few choices in the matter. Many programs now insist on paying in crypto. If you're lucky enough to get into a partnership where you can earn money and be paid outside of crypto, you should stick with that arrangement for as long as possible.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strider1973 View Post
    Quite a joke that Revolut pushes customers into buying crypto but doesn't allow transfers from Binance...
    They are not happy either 100%. They used to allow it. If you think it is their decision... well it is not.
    The bigger miracle is the Binance card here. I guess it might also not last long, or things again took 180 degree twist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Martinez View Post
    However, even these non-blockchain transactions used to sustain the blockchain will be limited in what they can accomplish.

    There are three problems with blockchain:

    1) Processing is incredibly inefficient and slow compared to other storage architectures

    2) The transaction fees increase faster than those of other storage systems

    3) Their demand for electricity grows at an unsustainable rate

    It's most likely the electricity demands that will kill blockchain in 10-15 years, unless someone comes up with a way to reduce the electricity requirements for cryptomining.
    This is really not a problem of blockchain (crypto is not blockchain there are other than blockchain cryptocurrencies). It is a problem of POW blockchain which is a subset of blockchain. And in POW coins that problem has now only ETH and BTC and both of those problems will be indeed resolved in 10-15 years or it does not survive.

    The non-blockchain transactions like CB is doing were destined to happen and they are fine. Really the 5, 50, 500 or even 5000 USD microtransactions do not need to be written to layer 1 blockchain.
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  18. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by xecutable View Post
    I meant gambling as a separate issue, you know for being an affiliate, unrelated to this issue. My transfer went through after 48 hours, despite the hefty 20 eur fee for a 2k deposit. SEPAs are out of the question, they 100% block them.

    My Binance card is on the way, and I've setup iCard for now as well.

    I'm currently not in Switzerland, but in Bulgaria. My country of residence is here, so in a way I kind of have to do my dealings here. In addition I've been a client for 15y and my company is also here. A swiss account was considered, but my lawyer and I decided to postpone it for later.

    I was just taken by surprise that crypto is considered as something BAD. Like I started this thread, I'm pretty new to the whole field compared to many of you, and as someone who uses their head on day to day bases it didn't strike me as anything to be fraud upon.

    To banks here are from the socialism times. They are do not see the future in blockchain, they see death to their monopoly and stupid pointless taxes. Things like deposit tax, for depositing YOUR money in THEIR bank, tax for "TAKING CARE" of your money monthly and so on. Rather than being happy that you've chosen them, they are acting now you should be grateful that they've taken you.

    Sadly companies like Revolut that started strong, have now caved in and DO NOT accept transfers from or to Binance, though some still go through. In reality an online bank that does this becomes literally USELESS.
    You decided to live in low tax country so bear with it. Those are the costs of it. You can not get the Swiss quality there. My advice is to open account in some 3rd country (not BG not CH).

    My country of residence is here, so in a way I kind of have to do my dealings here.
    Change the lawyer to someone who can see a bigger picture. Because you have to avoid doing things in Switzerland to not have there the centre of gravity. But any other countries are ok for you. They are in fact even better than BG, because then your identity will be kind of dilluted and out of system.

    But again - everything nowadays is about relationship with banks. They have the power. And yes, crypto is 90% taken as something from criminals and 10% is taken as total hype that will bring a cure of cancer and make everyone a billionaire. It is neither.
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    Decided is a strong word. A mix of personal problems, partner issues, mixed with business and financial issues 'made' it my choice. But that's not something I wanna discuss publicly and it's not the point.

    To have a relationship with a bank, I'm thinking of multi millions, maybe more?

    The dogecoin bubble today doesn't help crypto and how it's perceived either. Once the bubble bursts and many are left with nothing on that particular joke currency, I'm guessing regulators would wanna jump in and "fix it" all.

    My problem was with 1 legal entity not wanting to accept transfer from or to another legal entity. If Binance or any other exchange is full of shady money why is it legal and not shutdown? If it's perfectly legal why the restrictions. Easy the banks wanna be the ruler of the world.
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    Quote Originally Posted by xecutable View Post

    To have a relationship with a bank, I'm thinking of multi millions, maybe more?
    I am trying to have good relationships with any bank. With Revolut for example where I have only money to day to day spending. Of course I do not talk with anyone there. If they ask for something I forward. I pay with their card so they have money. I do not try to get money from crypto etc. This is also the "good relationships". In other words - try to be the good client as much average as much you can be. In Bulgaria it is great because the bank at least charges you fees. Yes it is ridiculous, but at least it is an advantage. They have some money from you unlike western banks with -0.4% EUR interest.
    Quote Originally Posted by xecutable View Post
    The dogecoin bubble today doesn't help crypto and how it's perceived either. Once the bubble bursts and many are left with nothing on that particular joke currency, I'm guessing regulators would wanna jump in and "fix it" all.
    It is not a dogecoin problem. It could have been something even worse. All shtcoins will fail after this and many peoplw will be bankrupt. just like 4 years ago and just like in 2025. It is because bitcoin surges and the snowball effect creates those ridiculous effects. If the pressure comes then the baptism by fire it will be. Good for decentralised crypto. Either way we can not do anything with that. Just follow the stream.

    Quote Originally Posted by xecutable View Post
    My problem was with 1 legal entity not wanting to accept transfer from or to another legal entity. If Binance or any other exchange is full of shady money why is it legal and not shutdown? If it's perfectly legal why the restrictions. Easy the banks wanna be the ruler of the world.
    This is because the word is not a swiss clock. Never was. Maybe in Switzerland. You are asking some logic, because the politicians and the western systems pretend there is some logic or system. In fact everything is just a chaos. Legal is what is not illegal. Binance has better insight/lawyers/make more money than Revolut. That is all. For the same things you can be praised or go to prison. It was always the reality. One has only the choice to accept it and make some money or keep denying it and live a middle class life, gamble slots and buy the Doge during bubbles.
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  23. #17
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    Just a funny fact. I am playing with something today. I initially withdrew 250K worth of fiat from binance via few payouts to different addresses. No problems. Then I needed to withdraw again 250K at once of USDC. Again the payout was immediate. And the account is far from fully verified (I am not sure how much it is but nothing profound).

    This is what I call a bank and a normal transaction. This is the service everyone needs. Not stupid calls to banks for explaining few thousands. Crypto has potential to bring it to everyone. Because nowadays - lets say it loud - the rich are penalised when it is about money. It is stressful for anyone - when at the end of the day, when the money is finally at "your" account - you have no idea whether you have to fight again for it with your bank. It is not an issue in any particular country. It is getting horrible everywhere and it will get just worse as the countries will get bankrupt after corona (see Turkey and their hysterical and unenforceable "ban" on bitcoin from today, that is saying: "Dear Ataturk sons, our economy is fked up, the only way how you can preserve your wealth is bitcoin/crypto. So we must indeed ban it and try to hold the power a bit longer. So if you did not hear about it until now, now you know what you should do: buy bitcoin or die." Classic Streissand effect.).

    So with all the shtcoin chaos and bubble now, do not foget: this is the monetary revolution that is crypto bringing. This 2021 bubble will pop, many people will be bankrupt. But some changes always occur with each wave. At some point there will be maybe 2 normal biz people (1 in the Asia second in the Europe for example) who do not like bitcoin that much, who just want to do some business let's say with steel, but because the banks are so annoying, they will simply choose to pay for the deal with BTC or even with the stablecoins for example. And nobody will do a rectal probe for them. In some countries like middle East the stablecoins like USDT are already used instead of USD, because inernational payments from those countries are refused. And this is just one example. Crypto is not some great technical instrument per se, it is simply re-enabling normal payments between two parties without obstacles.
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    I am based in Ukraine and binance works properly. Transactions both, deposit and withdrawals take up to 30 sec... Of course it depends on the amount, but in my case it was higher than you mentioned above. Perhaps i also can depend on the bank policies... Some of them have more strict KYC. I know that here, in Ukraine with one of my banks I could not even depost my account, because that bank did not want to accept SWIFT to crypto resource, while another one was ok with it.

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    Its getting harder and harder and I genuinely believe most banks will ban crypto transactions.

    They are unregulated and pose a massive risk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Martinez View Post
    There are three problems with blockchain:

    1) Processing is incredibly inefficient and slow compared to other storage architectures

    2) The transaction fees increase faster than those of other storage systems

    3) Their demand for electricity grows at an unsustainable rate
    These problems, and more, are all solved in many "altcoins". Proof of Stake, instead of Proof of Work is the easiest way to deal with electricity.

    Transaction fees can already be almost zero with many altcoins.

    Processing is only slow with Bitcoin because the stupid greedy ***** insisted on an arbitrarily low block size of 1MB while computer hardware continues, even now - against all odds - of adhering to Moore's law. It was a shameless power and money grab by certain individuals to promote their unproven "Lightning Network" 2nd layer to keep the 1MB limit, but increased fees dramatically for a long time for regular users, making Bitcoin, and its original purpose as a way to send any amount of money, anywhere without restriction for close to zero in fees into a profit based model of who can spend the highest, gets to spend their bitcoin. Creating a perverse incentive for miners to reject, or at the very least, only prioritize blocks with high fees.

    This led to the ridiculous split of Bitcoin and Bitcoin Cash, which was detrimental to the entire crypto userbase, but very profitable to a select few individuals, companies and of course, those who already had a large stash of bitcoin. Why not keep splitting into Bitcoin Goild, Silver, Platinum, Satoshi Vision etc... or right, they did.

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