All 22 casinos in rewards player emails and links to CR website

[GCG]

FYI

I opened a new player account

and I got this email to logon to casinorewards :

1. Visit www.casinorewards.com <-- (this goes to xxhttp://www.crhelpdesk.com/main/index.asp) and enter the above details
2. Click on the login button in the green CasinoRewards box in the lobby of the casino software.

All other CR casinos are there .....if this is a win-win situation it sure is for rewards.
This is best cross promotion excuse I have ever seen !!

Why does the program not reply here ??

Why do affiliates accept their players being cross promoted without getting credit for that ??

[Dominique]

I am following this with interest.

I am sure there are others who are and are not posting.

Waiting for Renee to reply.

[PingPong]

GCG

My take is that majority of webmasters are not paranoid/intelligent enough to locate problem and prove their point.
What you do for the universal community is priceless. Just realise the industry you're in. I'm newbie but after checking all these one-sided affiliate agreements I found that affiliates are not protected at all.
So it is pointless to show your emotions. Just make your opinion count and there will be support and eventual resolution.

[Bonus Paradise]

I am following this with interest.

Waiting for Renee to reply.

Yes, same here.

[Dominique]

Renee, CGC quit THE INDUSTRY because of this thread. As well as all the forums.

Please do come back and address these issues. I do agree with him that these are serious tracking issues.

[diceman]

"We have been in the industry for over 10 years and we’ve been working with most of you. We are not out there to rip people off or shoot ourselves in the foot by trying to ‘steal’ from our advertisers and affiliates. We understand that this is not the way to ensure long profitable business models and we are certainly not in this game for the short term. We seek long term relationships with both players and affiliates alike"

Can I go back to my old rev share plan please? As I have been that 10 year affiliate and think its only fair.

[Anthony]

I want everyone to know we have been talking to Rewards Affiliates. These issues will be addressed shortly.

[Jamie - RateMyCasino]

Waiting patiently for response! As my new site revolves around Rewards casinos, this is very interesting to me. Do I need to be concerned?

I hope CGC didn't quit just because of this. There are plenty more fish in the sea.

[Fergie]

*Bump*

Rene?

[arkyt]

I opened a new player account

and I got this email to logon to casinorewards :

Why do affiliates accept their players being cross promoted without getting credit for that ??

Hmmmmmm this might explain in part what Im seeing in March since giving them a boost in exposure.

Hopefully this will get fixed sooner rather than later.

[casinogamespro]

Many webmasters promote RA and they need to know what's going on. Renee, can you please clarify this issue?

[Anthony]

We had to take some time to go over everything with Rewards Affiliates. There will be a clarifying post shortly. Sorry for the delay, with the time differences and RA in the middle of moving offices it took longer than expected.

[Fergie]

I hope the clarifying post is clear. Perhaps point form would be nice. What Rene has already posted is very hard to understand, and in some instances seems to contradict itself, which is why I'm confused.

[Anthony]

Yes it will be broken out point by point so we can all easier understand and address a particular point if there are any additional questions.

[Renee]

It looks like a lot of people have found my previous posts confusing, so with the advice of Anthony I’m reiterating each point in shorter form. If there are still questions, please let me know.

I would also like to let everyone know that everything below has been the case for as long as our group has been around – over 10 years. Nothing is new or changed and nothing has been “just started”. There have been many threads asking all of these questions, some even started by the original poster of this thread, so we are not hiding anything. You can do a Google search if you want to see those other threads.

I'm also on my way out so I wont be able to answer any further questions until Monday.


Casino Rewards website/Loyalty Account
There are no tags pulled through to the Casino Rewards website (this includes when players log into their loyalty account). This means that if a player goes to casinorewards.com via any means (email, aff tag, marketing tag, type in), and clicks on one of the casinos listed on the site, the last referrer to the casino they clicked on will get the player. If the player has not previously been referred to that casino or previously visited the casino via typein, the player will be tagged to the casino.

Example
Affiliate A sends Player X to Golden Tiger. Player does not register.
Affiliate B sends player X to Casino Action. Player does not register.
Player X types in CasinoRewards.com. From there they click on Casino Action, register and start playing. Since Affiliate B was the last referrer to that casino, Affiliate B will have that player at Casino Action.
The player then goes back to Casino Rewards and clicks on Golden Tiger, registers an account and starts playing. Player X will be tagged to Affiliate A on Golden Tiger because Affiliate A was the last referrer to that casino.
Player X goes back to Casino Rewards and clicks on Lucky Emperor, registers and starts playing. The player is untagged since no affiliate has referred the player to Lucky Emperor previously.


Rewards Riches
Rewards Riches is a lottery system we have in place so that players are able to use their loyalty points to buy tickets. Winnings are placed into the loyalty account to claim at ANY casino rewards casino they are a member of, i.e. to an existing account only.

Example of how this benefits affiliates
Let’s say that Player X from the above example did not deposit on Casino Action, but only played the free spins and did not make a deposit. They log into their Rewards Riches account and buy a ticket with loyalty points earned from play at Lucky Emperor. With that ticket, they win $50 which goes into their loyalty account. They log into their Casino Rewards loyalty account and claim the $50 as a bonus to Casino Action, and start playing with it. They like Casino Action and so start depositing there instead of at Lucky Emperor. As you can see this is a retention tool and can only benefit affiliates because the affiliate is now earning from that player playing on a formerly inactive account. On the wager model the bonus money would also count towards earnings in this case.


Rewards Buddies
This is a referral system for players to refer their friends to the casino and receive money for each referral. Since your player already has an account and is not creating a new account but simply referring their friends, the affiliate is not affected by this.


Casino Rewards Newsletter
The Casino Rewards newsletter is sent out weekly and monthly once per player regardless of the number of accounts they hold, and contains information about what is happening at the casino, any promotions happening (which are for the player to use at any existing account). It does not make sense to send out one email per brand because the player would soon stop playing at any of their CR accounts for being spammed with the exact same email up to 23 times weekly/monthly.

Also, all offers in the newsletter are valid at ONE existing account only, not at every account individually, so the player chooses which existing account they want to play at with that promo. This is another reason it doesn’t make sense to send 23 different emails since the user will be getting emails for promos at a casino they are not able to use there once they have claimed it at another casino. All of our newsletter marketing is aimed at 100% benefitting the player. If the player is not satisfied, no one will be making any money.

The logos at the bottom of the newsletter (btw they appear on both Non US and US, even though players are not able to open new accounts from the US) are there for branding and the click through rate (according to our stats) is less than 0.1% of all newsletters opened. Tracking on those logos is there so we can see that if a click through is made, it came from the newsletter. The tracking is an internal tracker and does not track to any particular affiliate.

This branding benefits affiliates in the following way:
Player X in the above example who was referred by 2 separate affiliates and a notag gets this newsletter and if he manages to get to the bottom after reading the whole newsletter (which most people don’t as they usually click on the promotions before getting there – which as I said before are for use at existing accounts) they will notice the logos. After some time noticing these logos, they may come across your affiliate site, see one of our logos and think “oh yeah I remember seeing that logo on my CR newsletter. I like CR, I’ll play there” and click through your banner, becoming your player at that casino. In this case the branding has helped you gain that player because they recognize and trust the brand.

The point of the CR newsletter is to tell players news and promos for use on their existing accounts. We do not send these out to entice the player to another casino for more than a few reasons, the biggest being that we want to encourage the player to play on the account they are already playing at. It’s also expensive for us if the player moves between casinos because the sign up bonus is by far the largest bonus a player gets, and it’s not profitable for us to have each player move from casino to casino taking the sign up bonus regardless of whether they are tagged to an affiliate or not.


Do players at Rewards casinos get emailed offers to play at other Rewards properties?
Players will get emailed offers to play at the casino they are currently a member of. If they are a member of multiple casinos, they will receive offers for all of those casinos they are registered at up until a certain time frame (usually over 1 year) that the casino feels their retention efforts have failed. Players will also receive promotions that are available at any of their existing accounts, letting the player choose which casino they would like to claim the promo at. Again these promotions are for existing accounts only. CR does not send promotions for other casinos to active players.

As I mentioned in a previous post, there is no way we would offer/entice/encourage a player to switch brands for the sake of “saving money”. We do everything in our power to keep the players happy and playing at the account they want to play at most and would do nothing to jeopardize that player’s satisfaction. Our retention and VIP level of service is one of our strongest points in this industry and most of you would have seen old players coming back after months of not playing. If we cross promoted or unmapped the players you would not see the player value you do.

We encourage everyone to do their own testing and are confident that your results will line up with everything we have said here.

We have been in this industry for over 10 years and we are definitely not out to steal from our partners. If we did we wouldn’t have been around for so long. If you have any further questions, let me know.


Diceman “Can I go back to my old RevShare plan please?”
Back in 2006 (5 years ago now) we gave affiliates 8 weeks to opt out and keep their old RevShare accounts. We sent newsletters, made forum posts etc. If you weren’t able to get a message to us in that 8 weeks (which was extended twice because people complained the initial 2 weeks wasn’t enough time) then I’m afraid I can’t help with that. You’re able to sign up with a new account on the tiered RevShare model. There are no rules against that. The tiered RevShare model has been around since June 2009 and was pushed out in newsletters, forum posts etc, so unless you haven’t read forums for 2 years, haven’t read our newsletter or didn’t log into your account and read the announcements that are on the login page, there isn’t really any reason why you shouldn’t have heard that we introduced it. If you need help creating a new account, let me know.


Cheers

[GCG]

Casino Rewards website/Loyalty Account
There are no tags pulled through to the Casino Rewards website (this includes when players log into their loyalty account). This means that if a player goes to casinorewards.com via any means (email, aff tag, marketing tag, type in), and clicks on one of the casinos listed on the site, the last referrer to the casino they clicked on will get the player. If the player has not previously been referred to that casino or previously visited the casino via typein, the player will be tagged to the casino.

If I have a player who has multiple accounts clicks casinorewards.com in the newsletter email and chooses a new casino how can that player be tracked ?.

Tracking on those logos is there so we can see that if a click through is made, it came from the newsletter. The tracking is an internal tracker and does not track to any particular affiliate.

If I have a player who has multiple accounts clicks directly on the casino images in the newsletter the btag is not unique, can that player be tracked ?

Do players at Rewards casinos get emailed offers to play at other Rewards properties?
Players will get emailed offers to play at the casino they are currently a member of. If they are a member of multiple casinos, they will receive offers for all of those casinos they are registered at up until a certain time frame (usually over 1 year) that the casino feels their retention efforts have failed. Players will also receive promotions that are available at any of their existing accounts, letting the player choose which casino they would like to claim the promo at. Again these promotions are for existing accounts only. CR does not send promotions for other casinos to active players.

I am a player at Grand Mondial and I have received promo emails from others CR casinos.

This branding benefits affiliates in the following way:
Player X in the above example who was referred by 2 separate affiliates and a notag gets this newsletter and if he manages to get to the bottom after reading the whole newsletter (which most people don’t as they usually click on the promotions before getting there – which as I said before are for use at existing accounts) they will notice the logos. After some time noticing these logos, they may come across your affiliate site, see one of our logos and think “oh yeah I remember seeing that logo on my CR newsletter. I like CR, I’ll play there” and click through your banner, becoming your player at that casino. In this case the branding has helped you gain that player because they recognize and trust the brand.

Players read the entire email and click wherever they want.

After some time noticing these logos, they may come across your affiliate site, see one of our logos and think “oh yeah I remember seeing that logo on my CR newsletter. I like CR, I’ll play there” and click through your banner, becoming your player at that casino. In this case the branding has helped you gain that player because they recognize and trust the brand.

I think they just use the email to explore the casinos.
Besides that the casinorewards logo is on all your casino sites all the player has to do is to click on that link to get more information which is basically the same we affiliates have.

Also, all offers in the newsletter are valid at ONE existing account only, not at every account individually, so the player chooses which existing account they want to play at with that promo. This is another reason it doesn’t make sense to send 23 different emails since the user will be getting emails for promos at a casino they are not able to use there once they have claimed it at another casino. All of our newsletter marketing is aimed at 100% benefitting the player. If the player is not satisfied, no one will be making any money.

IMPORTANT : If it is a non bonus player he/she can play wherever they want to.

We have been in this industry for over 10 years and we are definitely not out to steal from our partners. If we did we wouldn’t have been around for so long. If you have any further questions, let me know.

This does not mean that we agree on how you contact OUR referred players (I hope I am not the only one speaking here).

[DaftDog]

Example
Affiliate A sends Player X to Golden Tiger. Player does not register.
Affiliate B sends player X to Casino Action. Player does not register.
Player X types in CasinoRewards.com. From there they click on Casino Action, register and start playing. Since Affiliate B was the last referrer to that casino, Affiliate B will have that player at Casino Action.
The player then goes back to Casino Rewards and clicks on Golden Tiger, registers an account and starts playing. Player X will be tagged to Affiliate A on Golden Tiger because Affiliate A was the last referrer to that casino.
Player X goes back to Casino Rewards and clicks on Lucky Emperor, registers and starts playing. The player is untagged since no affiliate has referred the player to Lucky Emperor previously.

I've hi lighted the part that concerns me, is that not cross promoting a referred player with no benefit to the referring affiliate?

I feel that once a player has signed up and deposited through an affiliate they cannot then be referred to any of your other casinos by another affiliate. They should stay tagged to the affiliate who resulted in the player making the first deposit.

I can see why people are confused.

[arkyt]

If the player has not previously been referred to that casino or previously visited the casino via typein, the player will be tagged to the casino.

Example
Affiliate B sends player X to Casino Action. Player does not register.
Player X types in CasinoRewards.com. From there they click on Casino Action, register and start playing. Since Affiliate B was the last referrer to that
Player X goes back to Casino Rewards and clicks on Lucky Emperor, registers and starts playing. The player is untagged since no affiliate has referred the player to Lucky Emperor previously.

Summary: If players are directly referred via an affiliate referral link then the affiliate will be credited; if not the affiliate will not.

Statement: Sounds pretty straight forward and accepted as standard operating procedure for Casino Rewards for years.

Argument: If an affiliate had not originally referred this player to Casino Rewards, they likely would not have had an opportunity to expose them to other casinos in the group via their website.

The Casino Rewards newsletter is sent out weekly and monthly ...

The logos at the bottom of the newsletter are there for branding and the click through rate (according to our stats) is less than 0.1% of all newsletters opened. Tracking on those logos is there so we can see that if a click through is made, it came from the newsletter. The tracking is an internal tracker and does not track to any particular affiliate.

Summary: Players are emailed numerous times each month. These emails do contain untagged links and branding material to Casino Rewards properties.

Statement: Looks like Casino Rewards is in fact cross promoting without affiliate tags and continuously exposing / saturating existing players with "branding" via untagged content.

Argument: Nothing to argue - the emails do have untagged "branded" links - the stated low click through rate is irrelevant.

After some time noticing these logos, they may come across your affiliate site, see one of our logos and think “oh yeah I remember seeing that logo on my CR newsletter. I like CR, I’ll play there” and click through your banner, becoming your player at that casino. In this case the branding has helped you gain that player because they recognize and trust the brand.

Summary: if/when a player revisits an affiliates site a player might remember the logos they see numerous other times a month and click through from an affiliate site.

Statement: I don't see the untagged promo/branding material as a favor to affiliates.

Argument: I would argue that players would likely be more inclined to go back to their inbox/saved box and click the link, or more so likely to simply "type-in" the casino name in their url address bar.

Players will get emailed offers to play at the casino they are currently a member of. If they are a member of multiple casinos, they will receive offers for all of those casinos they are registered at up until a certain time frame (usually over 1 year) that the casino feels their retention efforts have failed. Players will also receive promotions that are available at any of their existing accounts, letting the player choose which casino they would like to claim the promo at. Again these promotions are for existing accounts only. CR does not send promotions for other casinos to active players.

Summary: Players do not receive promo offers for casinos which they are not a member of.

Statement: Glad to hear that players are not directly receiving promotional "offers" for casinos which they are not members. However as already established they will and do repetitively receive untagged "branding" which can and undoubtedly does refer and convert players.

Argument: CGC above seems to indicate that they are in fact receiving promo material from "sister" casinos. Further attention is needed to ascertain the nature of these mailings.

As I mentioned in a previous post, there is no way we would offer/entice/encourage a player to switch brands for the sake of “saving money”. We do everything in our power to keep the players happy and playing at the account they want to play at most and would do nothing to jeopardize that player’s satisfaction.

Summary: Casino Rewards does not cross promote with the intent of "saving money". Casino Rewards works hard to keep players happy at the casino which they "want to play at most" ...

Statement: If untagged promotional/branding material is included in emails to players referred by affiliates and the email results in a player clicking through one of those untagged links which further results in a conversion for the casino; the resultant was that an affiliate who brought the casino the player in the first place will not get any credit for the secondary signup.

Argument: it doesnt really matter that the intent wasn't about "saving money" - if the affiliate hadnt referred this player the casino / casino group wouldnt have their contact info to promote to in the first place.

[GCG]

My question is : what is GPWA's point of view upon this issue and the comments that have been made by the affiliates?

[TheGooner]

Slight aside :

Members who have been here a year or so might remember my argumentative approach to a cheery announcement by CWC (now affiliate edge) to "new casinos" that they were launching in their program.

I understood what it meant - that my signups to the "old" casinos were now fair game - as they would be targetted with hype-mail regarding the new properties, and there would be "incentives" to switch and get a new bonus.

Interestingly, almost no-one agreed - and many affiliates including several GPWA staff posted my view was negative - and it was good news. WOW - well done - hurrah etc.

Twelve months on ...

===========

I actually read the contracts that I sign ... or agree to market under ...

Some affiliates believe that they own the rights to the contact details of players that they introduce and that affiliates should continue to be paid for additional sales to other products. Usually this is not in the contract. The argument is "they would not have the player without my initial contact" - and this is true. However - that is what you are paid 25%-40% for as an affiliate (or a CPA).

Affiliates do not "own" the players future joins - and I am sure that we would not actually say so on our websites. If we want future commissions from that player as affiliates THEN WE have to cross market to our players via or affiliate websites.

The affiliate contracts usually DO NOT say that you are entitled to an automatic share at all products - unless the affiliate also introduces the players via affiliate coded links to those additional products as well.

(NOTE : An exception to this rule is some European, Canadian and Australian outfits that do explicitly state that the affiliate will gain credit for ALL channels played by that player using that account. But this is usually a single program offering sports, casino, poker and bingo in the one platform)

If you work with an "affiliate group" that has a bundle of casino programs that it promotes - like Rewards Affiliates, Affiliate Edge, Affiliate Lounge - then it is very likely that those contact details will be used to cross market.

Cross marketing (with or without affiliate tags) is how these affiliate groups inject their expertise into the mix and generate players for the programs that they are marketing. It is a part of the business.