Bitcoin forking to BTC and BCC (Bitcoin Cash)

[TheGooner]

So it looks like bitcoin developers are no different to any other group of techno nerds and they cannot work together.
A group of Bitcoin miners (so-called Big-blockers) are going to fork off BTC into a new token BCC (Bitcoin Cash).

After failing to agree on a scaling solution it seems BTC will use Segwit2X while BCC will go with bigger block sizes above 1MB.

The net effect is that the coins with split on August 1st, and holders of BTC at that stage will also have matching BCC tokens.

It seems convoluted though - with talk of possible accidental (or fraudulent) "double spend" of coins on both chains so it may pay to keep your BTC and BCC tokens in your wallets for a while until it all sorts itself out.

It all adds to the feeling I have though that BTC may not be around for the long haul (2020 and beyond) - and certainly not guaranteed to be at the values that it is at present.

So it will pay to keep aware of the ever changing situation ... don't HODL forever ... without paying attention to new developments.

My problem with the split for BTC is :
- 1/ It will split the mining base meaning less volume potential.
- 2/ It will split the evangelical fan base meaning a possible wave of selling.
- 3/ Will BTC effectively have 100% inflation? From 21m max coins to 21m max of each coin?

Given that BTC has already dropped from 95% to about 45% of the total crypto-coin market capitalisation in just 4 months during 2017, I get the feeling that this move just exacerbates the situation ... and BTC's first mover and brand name advantage is slipping. BTC is still a big token - but just a token.

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Of course that's just one persons view based on 90 minutes of research - would appreciate other opinions.

But one thing is sure - a month is a LOONG TIME is crypto-world, so it pays to stay in touch with what is going on, especially if you are being paid regularly in BTC.

[Sherlock]

One thing is certain: have your bitcoins in your own wallet by 31st July. Electrum or HW wallets are fine for example.
Do not store your bitcoin at the exchanges, at online wallets, at casinos etc.
Most probably on 1st AUG you will be able to get the BCC this way and the BTC will be still yours. How to do it is still unknown.
Try to avoid transactions after 31st July until more is known.

My opinion: no big drama. There is altcoin forking off bitcoin and bitcoin holders have a giveaway. I am not 100% sure that the altcoin will have near to zero value. It is already traded at VIABtc at 20% of value of btc. So on average should be expected drop of btc value by ~20%. But it is hard to say if the combined value of BTC+BCC after 1st Aug will be greater or lower than BTC.

I speculate that yes. Bitcoin dropped to 1600 upon uncertainty. Then jumped from 1600 USD to nearly 3K during last days, when BIP91 (compromise solution for btc unrelated to BCC altcoin) was confirmed. There are still uncertainities, but the most important thing that there will be a Bitcoin with Segwit is almost certain.

I would not be surprised to see BTC+BCC combined value close to 4K. But take this with a reserve.

As I wrote numerous times, combined cryptomarketcap is nonsignificant. There are new altcoins created every day and they come to the market, so just that must by definition lower the market cap of btc. Even if some altcoin surpasses btc in marketcap, it does not say anything about the condition of bitcoin. The threat for bitcoin would be payments done in other cryptocurrency, especially payments for other goods. There are other cryptos being used like that (ETH, XMR, LTC, IOT), but nothing is close to cryptos.

Also worth of noting is that 2 biggest darkmarkets have fallen (Alphabay, Hansa), where owner of AB rather killed himself and most probably most of his bitcoins are lost (lost private keys). So another large part of bitcoins from 21M is as good as nonexistent.

Again:
One thing is certain: have your bitcoins in your own wallet by 31st July. Electrum or HW wallets are fine for example.
Do not store your bitcoin at the exchanges, at online wallets, at casinos etc.
Most probably on 1st AUG you will be able to get the BCC this way and the BTC will be still yours. How to do it is still unknown.
Try to avoid transactions after 31st July until more is known.

You do not need to do anything else for now. You can hodl both chains. You hodl both chains even if you do not extract BCC immediately, if you have the private keys of BTC (=seed from your wallet etc), because the private keys will be possible to use on both chains.

[DanHorvat]

It's not just nerds. It's nerds, Chinese mafia and American "entrepreneurs" who, surprisingly, don't seem to be Jewish. Are Jews missing out on BTC? Too busy counting cash from the binary options scam? Not fond of actually working (mining)?



I actually haven't heard of Bitcoin Cash until I saw this post. The way I understood things was this: on 1 Aug Segwit2x (BIP91) will be implemented because over 80% of miners signaled their support (it was actually almost 100%), therefore avoiding big trouble over BIP148 which Bitmain opposed, and three months later, on 1 Nov, if 100% of miners don't support a 2MB block increase (the 2x part of Segwit2x proposal) then a hard fork will take place.

I don't think Bitcoin Cash is anything serious. Anyone can cause a hard fork, and it's only significant if the miners are behind it. There have actually been 10 soft forks, hard forks or splits already (taken from this document):



But that's as far as my undestanding goes. So many opinionated people on every Bitcoin forum, it's hard to tell what's real information and a real event and what's just nerd talk. If you asked if diesel or petrol Opel is better you'd get the same type of responses. People think they know everything.

Here you can track the price of Bitcoin Cash. 21% of Bitcoin price at the time of writing.

The way I see it, the really dangerous route to trouble has been avoided with implementation of Segwit. This is what resolved that dangerous war between miners about the way to scale Bitcoin. The war is over and we all won, as is evident from the price increase. And the new panic day is 1 Nov.

I don't think Bitcoin Cash will be a factor in all this.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

[DanHorvat]

What I'm actually interested in is how to get BCC automatically while still holding onto my BTC.

Is there a way to do this? Is there free money to be made?

Or is it better not to mess with this at all?

[TheGooner]

What I'm actually interested in is how to get BCC automatically while still holding onto my BTC.

Is there a way to do this? Is there free money to be made?

Or is it better not to mess with this at all?

These are all question I have ...


I think that the answer is the BCC blockchain is different from the BTC blockchain ...
Your BTC wallets know NOTHING about the BCC blockchain.

So after August 1st we need to download a different BCC wallet - it will scan the BCC blockcain and see the coins/tokens we have...
We can then send BCC to an exchange that supports it - and it will not affect BTC.

However there seems to be some possible "replay attacks" - taking a BCC transaction and sending it on the bTC blockchain too.
So it may be best to wait a few days and read the news items that come out for an all clear on that.

[TheGooner]

Viabtc has quotes for the BTC and BCC in Yuan (assume it's a Chinese facing site)
It's doing some sort of pre-trade, and freezing any BTC/BCC that trade until the BCC blockchain is ready.

See https://www.viabtc.com/

I see BTC at 18.3K Yuan ($2,711) and BCC at 3.6K Yuan ($533)

[Sherlock]

What I'm actually interested in is how to get BCC automatically while still holding onto my BTC.

Is there a way to do this? Is there free money to be made?

Or is it better not to mess with this at all?

Yes, after 1st AUG you will get it if you hold your private keys. E.g. from your seed at Electrum you will be able to choose if you want to create BTC or BCC wallet. There is no hurry, unless you want to sell BCC for BTC immediately.

[TheGooner]

The way I see it, the really dangerous route to trouble has been avoided with implementation of Segwit. This is what resolved that dangerous war between miners about the way to scale Bitcoin. The war is over and we all won, as is evident from the price increase. And the new panic day is 1 Nov.

I don't think Bitcoin Cash will be a factor in all this.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

I think you are wrong.

Bitcoin CASH (BCC) appears to be the love-child of the big-blockers who want more than 1MB block and who hate SegWit2X
Bitcoin (BTC) will adopt SegWit2X and stick with 1 MB blocks.

It seems that most of the "big-blockers" are Chinese miners ... so there will potentially be an impacting split that will certainly divert some hashing power away from BTC. At least that's they way it was reading this afternoon ... I'll read some more tomorrow

[Sherlock]

Yes there should be a split of hashing power and the equilibrium will be set later where the ratio of price BTC/BCC will be the same as ratio of hashrate of BTC/BCC.

Overall it is normal and both exciting. There is no central authority, so no Core, no Chinese miners, no UASF nodes matter that much. New way of collective competitive "corporate governance" is just being tested.

Believing that the new corporate governance will be better than recent solutions is equal to believing in Bitcoin/Blockchain.

I do not believe in BCC success, but if something can threaten seriously BTC as the universal blockchain money it is BCC. And fortunately all BTC holders are in for BCC as well.

[PROFRBcom]

The important thing here is to own your private keys. Get your coins off of Coinbase and other online wallets for the short-term because if you don't own your private keys, you stand the chance of only getting 1/2 of split coins.

Also of note, bitcoin inflation: Everyone's coins will be valid on both blockchains. Thus, your overall percentage of the crypto currency ownership will not change at all. Unless you don't own your private keys, and then your percentage of ownership decreases!

[DanHorvat]

I think the increase to 2 MB won't solve the scaling problem, it's just a temporary fix that will demand an increase to 4 MB and 8 MB very soon, so if Bitcoin Cash is a good solution and if it takes over - more power to it.

I tend to side with Bitmain in these discussions. And they seem to be the ones who are supporting ViaBTC and Bitcoin Cash.

Why shouldn't I just send all my Bitcoin to Okex? They describe what will happen in detail. How does that sound to you guys?

There will be a trading frenzy and people will be choosing sides.

An opinion I read somewhere is that you WILL lose money unless you make sure you'll get BCC after the split. If you don't, you'll be stuck with BTC only, and will break even if and only if BCC eventually falls to 0.

[DanHorvat]

Get your coins off of Coinbase

Coinbase is a special case, because they explicitly stated they will not be supporting BCC.
There are also cases of exchanges which support BCC and while will automatically give you your share of BCC, such as Okex, Okcoin. Electrum also has a BCC protocol in place. And there are exchanges which support BCC only - ViaBTC.

So if you have your BTC in such a wallet that does everything for you, that's the equivalent of storing your keys locally and uploading them to that same exchange afterwards to get your rightful share of BCC.

My position here is that I don't intend to hide under the weather, but intend to ride the storm and make some money trading BTC and BCC.

[yeahfree]

i'm wondering if i will get my revshare percentage from the bcc that the casinos and poker rooms will get from my players that still have bitcoins at their rooms. somehow i have the feeling i don't...

[yeahfree]

I am not 100% sure that the altcoin will have near to zero value. It is already traded at VIABtc at 20% of value of btc. So on average should be expected drop of btc value by ~20%. But it is hard to say if the combined value of BTC+BCC after 1st Aug will be greater or lower than BTC.

I speculate that yes. Bitcoin dropped to 1600 upon uncertainty. Then jumped from 1600 USD to nearly 3K during last days, when BIP91 (compromise solution for btc unrelated to BCC altcoin) was confirmed. There are still uncertainities, but the most important thing that there will be a Bitcoin with Segwit is almost certain.

I would not be surprised to see BTC+BCC combined value close to 4K. But take this with a reserve.

of course there will be lots of room for speculation but i have the feeling that a big part of that might be priced in already in the current btc price.
let them go their own way by splitting and becoming yet another alt coin, no need to keep on fighting anymore.



and yes, market cap is bullshit, but , people do look at it.
volume says more about actual usage of the coin, although it still can be just from trading mainly, which you hardly can call usage, but it does say something about the popularity.

[DanHorvat]

Head scratching question: what happens to Ripple (XRP) value in dollars during the fork on an exchange like Poloniex which has BTC/XRP trading?

If BTC drops from $2800 to $2000 and XRP is 0.00007 BTC ($0.196), then the price in BTC should rise to 0.00098 BTC so it stays the same in dollars, right?

Trying to figure out if I should protect my Ripple and other altcoins in some way.

[Sherlock]

i'm wondering if i will get my revshare percentage from the bcc that the casinos and poker rooms will get from my players that still have bitcoins at their rooms. somehow i have the feeling i don't...

It is more probable that Wright is Satoshi than that you will get this

of course there will be lots of room for speculation but i have the feeling that a big part of that might be priced in already in the current btc price.
let them go their own way by splitting and becoming yet another alt coin, no need to keep on fighting anymore.



and yes, market cap is bullshit, but , people do look at it.
volume says more about actual usage of the coin, although it still can be just from trading mainly, which you hardly can call usage, but it does say something about the popularity.

People also look at league charts and bet based on that. Or they like astrology.

Volume also does not say anything, really. ETH volume is inflated by ICOs, some other currencies like byteball or IOTa are or were traded mainly by OTC, BTC OTC volume is maybe higher than on exchanges, but on the other side there are exchanges with zero fees and they have a "fake volume".

Volume of LocalBitcoins is probably more saying something, but there are no volumes of localaltcoins (although ETH started something like that). Why? Simple. Almost nobody uses altcoins for payments and if, then just small amounts.

[Sherlock]

Head scratching question: what happens to Ripple (XRP) value in dollars during the fork on an exchange like Poloniex which has BTC/XRP trading?

If BTC drops from $2800 to $2000 and XRP is 0.00007 BTC ($0.196), then the price in BTC should rise to 0.00098 BTC so it stays the same in dollars, right?

Trying to figure out if I should protect my Ripple and other altcoins in some way.

My opinion is to get rid of ripple at any price

Otherwise you are right, but only ceteris paribus. And if the "split" really happens, we already know that altcoins will somehow react and move as always. Probably following bitcoin (or BTC+BCC). And possibly even more than bitcoin.

I think BTC will win, because nobody needs BCC. Even 32MB blocks will not be sufficient to cover all money transactions of NY. Blockchain is not here to replace normal currencies (yet).

But I believe that in BTC and BCC are involved very sharp minds and history shown that wars were always the most productive times.

[Sherlock]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/com...icial_and_not/

[justbookies]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/com...icial_and_not/

https://electrum.org/bcc.txt

[Sherlock]

The important thing here:

Therefore, *after* the BCC fork, but *before* you enter a seed or
private key in a BCC wallet, you should move all your funds to a new
Electrum wallet, with a new seed. You will still be able to use the
old seed or private key with BCC, because BCC has replay
protection. Wait until your funds are confirmed in your new Bitcoin
wallet, before you enter the old private key in a BCC wallet. This
will protect your BTC funds from rogue/untrusted software.