Euro partner +thenationtraffic promoting Titan Poker are fraud

[DanBrownPokerGuru]

Euro partners promoting Titan poker has cheated us by $5000.

As we understood Titan Poker is promoted by Euro partners which in turns hire another agency, thenationtraffic, based in Israel to do all the dirty work so that if something goes wrong Euro partners would go scott free by blaming thenationtraffic.

Same old story of being hidden behind curtain while letting others do the dirty work and come out clean all the time. Nice business model.

We started promoting Titan Poker in June 2008. It was thenationtraffic, on behalf of Euro partners, which contacted us. They offered us a very tempting CPA and a lot of promise blah blah...

It is no wonder why Titan Poker is one of the favorite among webmasters and you can see Titan Poker banners plastered all over the Internet on Poker Affiliate websites. They are good in hooking up innocent webmasters with false promises.

Offer was irresistible and so we started promoting Titan Poker with full steam. We invested a lot in infrastructure, man power and did everything to promote them, we get them to Google Top 10 and promoted them on our 50-100 poker, sports websites and blogs.

This guy from thenationtraffic was strange. He asked us to use all black hat SEO techniques to push Titan Poker on Google which we refused. He never gave up in insisting on adopting black hat techniques and always came up with new innovative (devilish) ways of getting traffic. We never listened to him and insisted on clean SEO activities.

Within one month of starting promotion we started to get very good result. The first 2 months were smooth and we got payment though not on time but with some acceptable delay.

Things went sour in the 3rd month and onwards. With our massive effort we sent them a lot of new poker players and they got overwhelmed and started to make excuses for delay in payment.

First they delayed in response and said that it was holiday so they couldn't pay and that they would pay within next week they never did.

When we digg down further they started to make lame excuses of one kind or anther.

First they said that new poker player didn't play immediately as soon as they registered and it is something which is unusual and so they would wait and watch those new players and they would pay later.

Next excuse was that new poker player were more interested in Bonuses and they would not play after getting bonuses.

This was most absurd talk. They even don't know their own rules. If a player gets bonus he can't withdraw money immediately but he has to collect points (in 4 figures) before he would be eligible to withdraw fund so how could a new player withdraw fund as soon as he got the bonus?

This was not the end of the story, they made many more excuses which they invented on their own just to avoid payment.

Since August till date they have not paid a single penny and owe us $5000.

We have send them many e-mails but no reply. The guy from thenationtraffic doesn't reply anymore.

E-mail sent to support at reupholsters were never answered.

In last month people from Euro partners contacted us to promote Titan Poker (sic). When we informed them the above story they again went silent.

Then after few days we got e-mail from Euro partners asking if we would promote Titan Poker again if they pay the due amount. At the end at least they accepted that they owe us five grand but again they didn't pay.

To sum up we have invested about 500 man hours of time and not to mention investment in the Internet Infrastructure etc which when combined together would make a hole of about 50 grand in total.

Had they been in UK we would have sued them and would have recovered money easily but being hidden in some remote corner of the third world we are helpless. Or at least we don't have more time, resources and money to get them by involving lawyers which is not so easy task.

We are not going to sit silent and let them walk away with our hard earned money, we will get them eventually.

For the other webmasters promoting Titan Poker and being affiliated with Euro Partner and Thenationtraffic nexus we would put a word of caution and would advise them to watch these guys carefully.

Or better dump them. Don't get carried away by false promises.

[DanBrownPokerGuru]

We have posted a detailed discussion on this blog.
http://euro-partners-are-fraud.blogspot.com/

It is just beginning, more to follow.

[Dominique]

Why am I not surprised?

Same thing happens to many folks who go with Cpays.

Compliments, promising the sky, hints about blackhat techniques, a couple months pay, then once you have all kinds of investment in the properties - silence and no pay.

Heard this story over and over...

[DanBrownPokerGuru]

Only if we had known these tactics before.

We have been with Cpays but didn't go so far in promoting any of their brands too much.

Good that you just said it.

After eating up William Hill these guys (Cpays) would become monster.

[elgoog]

is there a connection between CPays and Eiropartners?

[TheGooner]

Hello Dan,

It's a shame to hear of your experiences with Europartners and Titan Poker - never nice to hear fellow webmasters getting shafted ...

However, I am amazed that you were not aware of the negative reputation that Europartners has amoungst affiliates as I've certainly seen you around the forums here and at PAP where the affiliate tales of woe are pretty common.

And when you had to consistantly ignore the advice from your affiliate manager to go "black hat" with your SEO? Well done to you for ignoring them - but surely it was a huge warning sign as to the sort of people you were working with? And also what your fellow affiliates who were worknig with them might be using?

A very dirty neighbourhood to be hanging around in ... and unfortunately some of that dirt wil lbe thrown around.



I guess like most affiliates - people do not beleive that it will happen to them - the eyes get distracted by the big CPA prize - ignoring all the negative press.


Thank you for posting the details here Dan - it will serve as a warning to other affiliates.

[casino2k.com]

I started as an affiliate with Europartners.
I never had problems with them, but I don't like very much how they work.
They are very aggressive with new webmasters: when I started, they gave me a bit of support and tried to claim exclusive rights on my websites. I never signed anything, and I'll never do.
I see a similar behaviour with Cpays, even if their managers are not so skilled as Europartners ones. They're both Playtech...

[brean78]

Thanks for your post Dan. I had a feeling there promises were too good to be true. I will be reviewing my partnerships with them very soon.

[DanBrownPokerGuru]

thanks TheGooner,
No we were not aware of the Euro Partner frauds and negative feedbacks. We were on PAP but we didn't realize that they are such a fraud.

We are new to this industry and not aware of the dirt here.

Only if we could have done a thorough research on Euro Partners and Titan Poker before we started to promote them.

Thanks to all for sharing their experiences.

With regards to Cpays and Euro Partners, I'm not sure if they are same or not. But I've seen a lot of similarity between them.

But I'm sure of one thing Titan Poker and Vulcan Poker are same, my observation is based on followings
1) Both cheated us in the same way. Both employed same tactics to lure us.
2) Both are based in Israel
3) Both have same customer services representative. when you sign up on Titan Poker/Vulcan Poker you will see same girl/guy greeting you
4) Both send same newsletter at same time and sender is same.
5) Not to metion that both are playtech
6) Both has similarity in the software. even though a lot of poker room uses Playtech they have a lot difference in their software at least. But in case of Titan Poker and Vulcan Poker there is a lot of similarity than any others.

Above are some of our observation. We didnt' digg down further in tracking them but we will do soon to expose them all.

[Buddy.]

Thanks for your post. I wasn't aware that there was a problem with these guys but will now avoid them like the plague. Sorry to hear they did you over.

[pendil]

i should visit more often - got both Euro Partners and Cpays on site and thought they were ok -not really pushed their sites as no real revenue coming through.

but how come these 2 sites are listed here as "platinum" affiliate sites

i joined them on the strength of that rating here at GPWA.

[DanBrownPokerGuru]

GPWA rating deosn'r guarantee that these guys are not going to cheat.

Yes you are right we should be more careful in choosing the affiliates.

[elgoog]

Thanks for your post concening Cpays and Europartners

[TheGooner]

i should visit more often - got both Euro Partners and Cpays on site and thought they were ok -not really pushed their sites as no real revenue coming through.

but how come these 2 sites are listed here as "platinum" affiliate sites

i joined them on the strength of that rating here at GPWA.

Without wanting to start a sh!tfight here at GPWA with management ....


How many times are we going to hear this quoted by new affiliates regarding the "platinum sponsor" status before this is remedied? How many people have been led in deals with Europartners / CPAYS simply based on that "sponsorship"?

Attention Affiliates :
All that GPWA sponsorship status means is that they give money to the owners of the forum - and the BRONZE / SILVER / GOLD / PLATINUM status only reflects the size of their monthly cheque to the GPWA .... it does not reflect their status or standing in the opinion of the members !!

Attention GPWA :
It's all very well getting outraged at CAP and and their certification stamp ... but GPWA are doing exactly the same with sponsorship ... and having weasel words like it is not an "endorsement" do not reflect reality when nearly EVERY newcomer to the board believes that the PLATINUM status is an endorsement of quality.

It's a blot on the thought leadership that GPWA is trying to provide to the industry

There are some programs that you shouldn't take the cheque from ...

[elgoog]

Paul applaus!!
Regards again!!

[EP Relations]

Hello and good day to you all.

I have investigated this issue.

Here are the facts:

• We received 25 poker first depositors from this affiliate.
• 10 of them signed up from the same serial #
• Even the affiliate himself shared a serial # with one other player account
• Many of the players did not play even one hand after depositing
• These players all made minimum deposits using the same alternative payment method
• The affiliate was ranking in google.com, yet the majority of the players came from India where the affiliate is said to be located

The long running success and great exposure of our brands/affiliate program as well as the profitable affiliate relations we share with so many affiliates have been built on trust, loyalty and ethical business practices.

We are always willing to privately and openly discuss any issue and come to a reasonable solution.

Kind Regards,

EPDirector

[Chips]

Hello and good day to you all.

I have investigated this issue.

Here are the facts:

• We received 25 poker first depositors from this affiliate.
• 10 of them signed up from the same serial #
• Even the affiliate himself shared a serial # with one other player account
• Many of the players did not play even one hand after depositing
• These players all made minimum deposits using the same alternative payment method
• The affiliate was ranking in google.com, yet the majority of the players came from India where the affiliate is said to be located

The long running success and great exposure of our brands/affiliate program as well as the profitable affiliate relations we share with so many affiliates have been built on trust, loyalty and ethical business practices.

We are always willing to privately and openly discuss any issue and come to a reasonable solution.

Kind Regards,

EPDirector

EPDirector

when you say serial # do you mean i.p. ??? I am not familar with that term.

Could the affiliate not be geo targeting India and thus the reason the players came from there?

Did the payment account# match up?

Did the i.p. addys appear to be the same local?

I promote Titan and Ocean (in vain) and am very concerned over the allegations. Please provide more info.

[GFPC]

Hey Chips.

I believe when he says serial number it has something to do with the computer used.

When you download a playtec site such as Titan, Tony G, Ocean poker it tracks i think a cookie to your computer. More than that i think it installs a tracking to your serial number in your registry file.

So lets say i downloaded Titan today, i would be a new player. Then in 1 month time i use a different name and address and change my IP address.

But use the same computer. It will still know that i am not a new player because it installs this file to your registry. That file i think gives a serial number.

So in essence what is being insinuated is many of the players are coming from one computer. This is against thew terms of service.

EP Director please excuse my interjection i just thought i would help out in this to help out Chips here. If i am wrong please correct me.

The reason i believe this to be the case is because on another ipoker network site i had an AM tell me this a while back.

Also i have had players try and create multiple accounts in the past and we have caught them. Simply put these sites have many ways in which they can protect themselves from fraud.

I think also many of these types of fraud happen with CPA type deals. I am not saying for sure this is what has happened but i think i have shed some light on the isue and hope i have assisted in this thread.

For what its worth, it may simply be a players issue. We just do not know, but i would like to know what the fellow has to say about this.

Its important to us all to know both sides of the fence. We want honest affiliate sites of course but we also want honest ethical affiliates.

I think for one thing this post should of been posted on the AffiliateProgram thread as its more personal. And should of been dealt there.

Here its widespread for the public to see. Some accusations are being made and in general it feels like an attack to me.

For what its worth. I think both parties can come to some form of resolution privately to dicusss details..

I hope i have not over extended my postion here. I just wanted to be helpful.

Steve

Ronn?

when you say serial # do you mean i.p. ??? I am not familar with that term.

Could the affiliate not be geo targeting India and thus the reason the players came from there?

Did the payment account# match up?

Did the i.p. addys appear to be the same local?

I promote Titan and Ocean (in vain) and am very concerned over the allegations. Please provide more info.

[Chips]

Thanks for the info, I was unaware of this, that was the reason I asked the question. I learned a long time ago, if you don't know, ask.

[GFPC]

Thanks for the info, I was unaware of this, that was the reason I asked the question. I learned a long time ago, if you don't know, ask.

Sure thing. I hope i was able to assist you mate. It was just what i was told a while back. Hope it was good info for yah mate.

Steve