Euro partner +thenationtraffic promoting Titan Poker are fraud

[casinobonusguy]

Without wanting to start a sh!tfight here at GPWA with management ....


How many times are we going to hear this quoted by new affiliates regarding the "platinum sponsor" status before this is remedied? How many people have been led in deals with Europartners / CPAYS simply based on that "sponsorship"?

Attention Affiliates :
All that GPWA sponsorship status means is that they give money to the owners of the forum - and the BRONZE / SILVER / GOLD / PLATINUM status only reflects the size of their monthly cheque to the GPWA .... it does not reflect their status or standing in the opinion of the members !!

Attention GPWA :
It's all very well getting outraged at CAP and and their certification stamp ... but GPWA are doing exactly the same with sponsorship ... and having weasel words like it is not an "endorsement" do not reflect reality when nearly EVERY newcomer to the board believes that the PLATINUM status is an endorsement of quality.

It's a blot on the thought leadership that GPWA is trying to provide to the industry

There are some programs that you shouldn't take the cheque from ...

I would just tell new affiliates to check out paul's websites , This is one webmaster we have high regard for and has so much experience in this business .As usual you say it the best

[crazycasinoslots]

I'm new to the whole portal thing and the one question I can never get an answer to is who are the REPUTABLE companies to go with? I signed up with Euro and Cpay and have them up atm. But I also am well aware that most pay for the good name even if they're not so good. So where can I get a LEGIT list of good companies to work with?

[Chips]

I'm new to the whole portal thing and the one question I can never get an answer to is who are the REPUTABLE companies to go with? I signed up with Euro and Cpay and have them up atm. But I also am well aware that most pay for the good name even if they're not so good. So where can I get a LEGIT list of good companies to work with?

Don't want to get this thread off topic... This would be a good thread starter... Maybe a mod can handle that for us

Anyway, I used to sign up for any program out there. What I do now is research a program before I sign up. Here are a few tips I learned over the past few years:

1. Google the program and brands, I look for any negatives. Knowing that a negative may not be a bad thing if handled correct I look at how it was handled and if the party involved was satisfied.
2. Search the GPWA forum for any info (negatives and positives.)
3. Pop over to Affiliate Guard Dog and see if the program has been reviewed.
4. Read the term and conditions of the program.
5. Important, I check casino sign up thread (private section) here, to see if anyone has the brand/program and sign up under another to help them out.

This is just a beginning to the research that I do, but if a program is worthy and reputable, they don't mind waiting. THe pushy ones are usually the ones that do not deserve your biz.

Hope this helps you on your way. Great question!

[pgaming]

More than that i think it installs a tracking to your serial number in your registry file.

Very good response GFPC your are bang on! Euro Partners has come along way in the last couple of years. If I may dare say they are in my good books, if it matters much.

JMO

greek39

[joeyl]

Without wanting to start a sh!tfight here at GPWA with management ....


How many times are we going to hear this quoted by new affiliates regarding the "platinum sponsor" status before this is remedied? How many people have been led in deals with Europartners / CPAYS simply based on that "sponsorship"?

Attention Affiliates :
All that GPWA sponsorship status means is that they give money to the owners of the forum - and the BRONZE / SILVER / GOLD / PLATINUM status only reflects the size of their monthly cheque to the GPWA .... it does not reflect their status or standing in the opinion of the members !!

Attention GPWA :
It's all very well getting outraged at CAP and and their certification stamp ... but GPWA are doing exactly the same with sponsorship ... and having weasel words like it is not an "endorsement" do not reflect reality when nearly EVERY newcomer to the board believes that the PLATINUM status is an endorsement of quality.

It's a blot on the thought leadership that GPWA is trying to provide to the industry

There are some programs that you shouldn't take the cheque from ...

Here here.

I'm glad it came from you, rather than a maverick like me.

Still, i't's 1/33 odds against I'll get ignored, and 1/33 so will you.

[JaqiC]

I am really concerned to hear about the problems that you are having with Europartners since I am still very new at this and have been promoting some of their casinos. I will definately do some more homework to see if I should continue on as one of their affiliates. Thanks for letting us all know about your experiences with them.

[GFPC]

Thank you Greek39.

I have worked with Europartners for well over 1 Year. I always enjoyed working with them and will continue to work with them.

With every site there maybe some issues yes.. but i have learned to work with them and develop a relationship to negotiate when problems arise.

I cant say much about other peoples problems with them as i do not know details, but for me they have worked with me to solve past and current issues.

Hope this helps.

Steve

Very good response GFPC your are bang on! Euro Partners has come along way in the last couple of years. If I may dare say they are in my good books, if it matters much.

JMO

greek39

[DanBrownPokerGuru]

Originally Posted by EP Poker Director
We have investigated this issue, and here are the facts regarding the first post:

* We received 25 poker first depositors from this affiliate.
* 10 of them signed up from the same serial #
* Even the affiliate himself shared a serial # with one other player
account
* Many of the players did not play even one hand after depositing
* These players all made minimum deposits using the same alternative
payment method
* The affiliate was ranking in google.com, yet the majority of the
players came from India where the affiliate is said to be located
Quote:
* The affiliate was ranking in google.com, yet the majority of the
players came from India where the affiliate is said to be located

You are dumb and blind and proved yourself that you are stupid idiot

Did you check our company name?
Did you check where it is registered?
Did you check where it is located?
Did you check where do you make payment to which country's bank account? India? or UK?

You send payment by Wire tranfser to a Bank account which is located in Londond you dumb a$$, and not in India. The company is Registered in England and Wales, The company is located in London.

Go and check ur bloody System again and then come back with the TRUTH.

What a dumb idiot this person he is. He said he has investigated and come back with TRUTH or another lie and can't even do proper investigation and then he wants the world to believe that he is telling the TRUTH. go back to ur sick system and track wtih which company did you deal with and where did you send payment and which country affiliate is located.

What an dumb idiot.

Also it proves that if players are coming from Asian countries then they are fraud? Are you rasicst too? Do you not pay to affiliates who send players from Asian countries?

Why don't you write on ur website in BOLD that you don't pay to affiliates which send Players from Asian countries and specifically you NEVER pay to those affiliates who send Indian Players.

* These players all made minimum deposits using the same alternative payment method

And how come same payment method from same affiliate is considered to be an excuse to not make payment?

It is very rare that anyone uses CC/Bank or any such method of payment, majority of them use ***pal/Moneybookers and other alternative methods to avoid getting screwed up by fradulent Poker rooms. What is wrong if they have used alternative methods which happen to be the same? Even if I've to play on any poker room I never use credit card and use alternative payment. It is pretty common.

What do you want to prove?

That if players use the same ALTERNATIVE METHOD then they are not considered to be NEW PLAYER, another criteria to make excuse to not to pay us?

The long running success and great exposure of our brands/affiliate program as well as the profitable affiliate relations we share with so many affiliates have been built on trust, loyalty and ethical business practices.

We are always willing to privately and openly discuss any issue and come to a reasonable solution.

Oh yeh? do you? do you really want to discuss something in Private?
Didn't we send you e-mail many TIMES requesting you to make payment? Didn't we? Didn't we send e-mail to the person from thenationtraffic.

We sent e-mail to support requesting the same, but no one bothers to reply or listen.

Your relation with affiliates oh yeh see below how you build relations with affiliates

1) Lure them by offering higest CPA in the industry

2) Almost force them to use black hat techniques to get traffic
I'll soon post here the conversation which we had with ur nationtraffic agent explaining us how to deploy black hat.

3) Once they start sending new players with hard work then you start making excuses not to make payment

4) When you get exposed then come up with layers of lie and lie to cover ur Ar$£

Who is trusting you ?

You think you can write any thing and then make others trust you.

You are supposed to employ the brainest people in the Industry who can tweak affiliate tracking to ignore any new players by tracking all god damn things and despite the fact if you get new players which ecsape ur fradulent affiliate tracking system then you come clean and just say all are fraud.

If you have been trakicng all sort of Number/IP addreses/Countries/Same Network/Same City/Same Operating System/Same Name/Same Address/Same town/Same Nationality/what else ??? then how come all these players are show to be new player in ur tracking system?

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CWYt6-JySR...aid-amount.jpg

Why you didn't supress them in ur tracking itself rather then letting them go visible and then come here to tell the TRUTH.

And even if you can't justify not to pay then you simply say they are poor quality players and you don't pay for them.

What exacly do you pay for Mr. Truth Teller?

The TRUTH is that you are fraud and don't want to pay.
Your whole tracking system is fraud.

Titan Poker are fraud
Euro Parnters are fraund
And thenatontraffic are fraud

You whole bloody system is fraud.

We dont' have control over players to go inside their pokcet and say hey listen this God damn Titan Poker wants to play whole day and night so that they can pay to us? Can WE?

We have also other playtech poker rooms and none of them complain and do fraud as you do.

What do you want to prove? That you have one of the best affiliate tracking system which will not accept any new poker player no matter even if they are from diffefrent universe?

TRUTH is bitter "Mr. The Truth teller" and it hurts a lot.

We will get you exposed everywhere, till we have recvived our payment.

Soon we are exposing the e-mails here also which will clarify who you tried to cover up each new poker player acquired and refuse to pay for one reason or another.

[AmCan]

well i've worked with Europartners for years, probably starting sometime in 2002 or early 2003. I've never had problems with them. I've run stuff from other Playtechs, including Golden Palace, the old IOG, etc and the best performer was consistently Casino/Europartners.

Every time someone comes and posts "I'm being screwed on a CPA deal", i'm skeptical. My skepticism increases when they add "I was working with XYZ agency for ABC Casino", since there are tons of affiliates who offer up CPA deals to other affilliates and then never pay. Search the GPWA and CAP and you'll see tons of these posts.

I know that i don't work with anyone but an affiliate program where i know people and i know how they work. I did a prepay media campaign, with a Microgaming Casino's internal media buy people (where i work with the AffProg) - once. I told them it wouldn't perform and let's not do it, they insisted they wanted to get the exposure, and understood that i thought it was a bad buy. So, they paid me and a week later the account manager is acusing me of not putting his ads up because he's not converting players. He wanted his money back (which he had said he wouldn't do), but "no we can't recieve money via payspark or neteller", like they sent it. Eventhough i should have kept their money, i didn't. Instead I had to wire this idiot back his $500, after wasting at least 2 or 3 hours of my time working with these guys. I've never worked with anything but the affiliates programs since.

While this complaint may certainly be legitimate and this agency may work with Europartners regularly, i'm a bit skeptical. On the other hand, if a Europartners represented offerred to pay you, but only if you started promoting Titan again, that would be BS and I would encourage EuroPartners to just send the check and move on. However I really don't believe that they would offer to pay you $5000 and then come on GPWA and say you sent fake players: these guys (And most programs) wouldn't pay you a penny if the traffic was garbage/fraud. What would be the point?

Do people really think that if someone is sending sending dozens good players, the casino would risk pissing off the guy sending it? I'd think they would have arranged to send you payment and new trackers (cutting out the agency) at your first complaint. Someone would have to explain the incentive in shutting down a stream of good CPA players, just to save a few $$$ that you've already agreed to send. In my experience when i've sent good players, the casinos want more, offer me better deals (whether CPA or Revshare), etc. as Europartners has to me and many of my friends who work with them.

Any of my buddies reading this who no longer trust EP, should PM because i'm assuming i would have heard from you already.

Also, when Greek is good with someone, that's usually based on a lot research and discussion on the board.

[DanBrownPokerGuru]

well i've worked with Europartners for years, probably starting sometime in 2002 or early 2003. I've never had problems with them. I've run stuff from other Playtechs, including Golden Palace, the old IOG, etc and the best performer was consistently Casino/Europartners.

Every time someone comes and posts "I'm being screwed on a CPA deal", i'm skeptical. My skepticism increases when they add "I was working with XYZ agency for ABC Casino", since there are tons of affiliates who offer up CPA deals to other affilliates and then never pay. Search the GPWA and CAP and you'll see tons of these posts.

I know that i don't work with anyone but an affiliate program where i know people and i know how they work. I did a prepay media campaign, with a Microgaming Casino's internal media buy people (where i work with the AffProg) - once. I told them it wouldn't perform and let's not do it, they insisted they wanted to get the exposure, and understood that i thought it was a bad buy. So, they paid me and a week later the account manager is acusing me of not putting his ads up because he's not converting players. He wanted his money back (which he had said he wouldn't do), but "no we can't recieve money via payspark or neteller", like they sent it. Eventhough i should have kept their money, i didn't. Instead I had to wire this idiot back his $500, after wasting at least 2 or 3 hours of my time working with these guys. I've never worked with anything but the affiliates programs since.

While this complaint may certainly be legitimate and this agency may work with Europartners regularly, i'm a bit skeptical. On the other hand, if a Europartners represented offerred to pay you, but only if you started promoting Titan again, that would be BS and I would encourage EuroPartners to just send the check and move on. However I really don't believe that they would offer to pay you $5000 and then come on GPWA and say you sent fake players: these guys (And most programs) wouldn't pay you a penny if the traffic was garbage/fraud. What would be the point?

Do people really think that if someone is sending sending dozens good players, the casino would risk pissing off the guy sending it? I'd think they would have arranged to send you payment and new trackers (cutting out the agency) at your first complaint. Someone would have to explain the incentive in shutting down a stream of good CPA players, just to save a few $$$ that you've already agreed to send. In my experience when i've sent good players, the casinos want more, offer me better deals (whether CPA or Revshare), etc. as Europartners has to me and many of my friends who work with them.

Any of my buddies reading this who no longer trust EP, should PM because i'm assuming i would have heard from you already.

Also, when Greek is good with someone, that's usually based on a lot research and discussion on the board.

Yes we send good players they offered more goodies we promoted more and sent them more players and then finally got screwed.

We wasted more than 500 man hours in promoting them then taking off (and wasting more time in chasing them for money) and what we got at the end? big PO.

Our promotion was so massive that even after stopping on our main wesbites we still have some promotion live and that is how we still continue to send them more players as you can see from this link

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_CWYt6-JySRY/SXNV5ZYTajI/AAAAAAAAAAM/zLA1B7z6d9Q/s1600-h/Titan-Poker-Euro-Partner-thenationtraffic-fraud-unpaid-amount.jpg


We stopped promoting them and took off from our main websites in November. But as we manage more than 100+ websites we couldn't manage to take off from all of them at once.

Regarding their explanation, we have already clarified that this guy replying is blind. He even doesn't know where we are located and in which country he sent wire transfers.

How can you trust such a Manager who even can't track where his affiliate is located and where did he send the money?

He has not provided even a single correct answer. And tried to cover up lies with more lies.

[danieltobe]

What an .......

thanks TheGooner,
No we were not aware of the Euro Partner frauds and negative feedbacks. We were on PAP but we didn't realize that they are such a fraud.

We are new to this industry and not aware of the dirt here.

Only if we could have done a thorough research on Euro Partners and Titan Poker before we started to promote them.

Thanks to all for sharing their experiences.

With regards to Cpays and Euro Partners, I'm not sure if they are same or not. But I've seen a lot of similarity between them.

But I'm sure of one thing Titan Poker and Vulcan Poker are same, my observation is based on followings
1) Both cheated us in the same way. Both employed same tactics to lure us.
2) Both are based in Israel
3) Both have same customer services representative. when you sign up on Titan Poker/Vulcan Poker you will see same girl/guy greeting you
4) Both send same newsletter at same time and sender is same.
5) Not to metion that both are playtech
6) Both has similarity in the software. even though a lot of poker room uses Playtech they have a lot difference in their software at least. But in case of Titan Poker and Vulcan Poker there is a lot of similarity than any others.

Above are some of our observation. We didnt' digg down further in tracking them but we will do soon to expose them all.

[DanBrownPokerGuru]

danieltobe you are such a ..............

[danieltobe]

Read it yourself...Your website and your word are same........

[AmCan]

Little BOYS!

PLAY NICE!

if you can't behave in a civil manner, don't bother posting.

If you don't think calling someone an idiot on the board isn't rude, i would suggest you pick up a book by Miss Manners.

[Betpartners]

danieltobe you are such a ******* ass hole mind ur ******* tongue

mmmm, doing youself no favours at all here with that sort of language.

Personally i dont use Europartners because of something that happened a while back that was not affiliate based so i cannot comment on their program.

I respect Paul's opinion at the goonerguide and i take what he says seriously and if he advises against Europartners that is another reason i would not use them,

I can think for myself but i use this forum for other peoples views and advice and not just Paul but others on here are a great source of expertise even if i do disagree with them on other subjects on occasions.

Now i ahve read the initial post and the response from Europartners and i felt that Europartners came back with a very good arguement and outside the regular use of the word idiot and i cannot say that DanBrownPokerGuru convinced me at all of his case.

Yes Europartners may well have got the location wrong of the affilaite in question but what about the serial number issue, that has not been answered, screaming abuse and shouting does not cover up the lack of response on this one.

Now while i respect Paul's view and listen to him i also listen to Steve (GFPC) and while i wont use Europartners he does and he must have a good reason to and if he is quick to defend them then i will listen and would want more "evidence" than your an idiot or a dumb ass or you dont know where i am based etc to condemn Europartners on this specific accusation.

Bottom line DanBrownPokerGuru all i see is that you ahve failed to answer fully Europartners response and your conduct has undermined your case.

Just my opinion for what it is worth

[arkyt]

Without wanting to start a sh!tfight here at GPWA with management ....


How many times are we going to hear this quoted by new affiliates regarding the "platinum sponsor" status before this is remedied? How many people have been led in deals with Europartners / CPAYS simply based on that "sponsorship"?

Bottom line, just as it was with CAP, this is a business and the emphasis is on the benjamins and not necessarily about doing what's best for the collective whole (of affiliates, players, or the industry).

[MichaelCorfman]

I have a few comments to make on the contents of this thread.

1. First, I apologize that I did not see it sooner and respond to some of what is being said.

2. Name calling between fellow members here is inappropriate, and if there is any further name calling of this nature, I will temporarily suspend posting rights of the offending member while we conduct a poll among the members about whether they should be allowed to continue posting or not.

3. Since such name calling is not professional, I will edit posts where such name calling was contained, clearly marking in the comments that such an edit was performed. I have done that for three posts in this thread. If anyone feels this editing was inappropriate, please start a poll question about whether such editing is appropriate. In the future I would abide by the opinion of such a poll. I should point out that I am extremely relunctant to take the sort of action I have taken in this thread, and have done it extremely infrequently, and always with disclosure about exactly what I have done.

4. I am aware that some folks don't like Europartners. But I'm also aware that many folks do like Europartners and have a history of good relationships with them. I believe the forums show this to be the case for anyone who takes the time to look at the experience of fellow webmasters with them.

5. In my opinion, it is frequently a mistake to work through third parties rather than directly with affiliate programs. If you choose to work through a third party, then you should realize that the experience you have can be a bad one even if the affiliate program itself is a good one. I can say that based on past experience, Casino City never works other than directly with the property we are promoting. We've learned that lesson many times, and don't care to learn it any more.

6. Sponsor levels are not indicative of our opinion of a program. From a business perspective, we could not afford to run this community if the sponsorship fees we receive were all bronze level sponsorship fees. And also from a business perspective, if we only offered a uniform sponsorship level, some programs that really should be here might feel it was not worth it. With the open discussions we allow, including both positive and negative comments about programs, it is not always easy for some programs to justify even the moderate sponsorship fees we charge to be able to cover our costs.

7. I welcome suggestions on how to improve transparency. I am a big believer in operating in a transparent mannor, and in allowing issues to be raised even when those issues might be a pain in the neck for me personally. Doing a good job is not always easy, and I care far more about doing a good job than having an easy job.

8. There is a poll started by betpartners in the thread https://www.gpwa.org/forum/gpwa-spon...ng-181576.html. I welcome any feedback that might be provided to us in both that poll and in comments posted in response to the poll.

Michael