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  1. #1
    MichaelCorfman's Avatar
    MichaelCorfman is offline GPWA Executive Director
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    Arrow The battle plan against Grand Prive

    We all know that Grand Prive made promises to webmasters about earning a lifetime annuity from players. And we all know that Grand Prive decided their word did not mean anything and that business was business and they really didn't need to keep those promises.

    And we know webmasters make a ruckus about this. And we know that nothing changed.

    Now personally, I understand that the marketplace is tough, and I think we would have all taken our lumps if Grand Prive had just shut down. But that's not what happened. It stayed open, and they continue to earn revenue from players that are still there, although affiliates no longer receive their share. And if operating the affiliate program was no longer viable, I know I would have viewed it as reasonable if they offered some sort of settlement amount to existing affiliates based on anticipated future earnings on remaining players.

    In fact, over the past several months, through a third party I made exactly such a proposal to them as a way of ending a bad situation in a responsible fashion. I had high hopes that Grand Prive would see the wisdom of such an approach as a way to put that matter in the past. But there was no interest in going down such a path as far as I can tell.

    So today Grant Prive probably thinks the matter is in the past. After all, there has not been much activity on the part of webmasters lately. They are probably feeling pretty smug. And nothing angers me more that a rogue who feels smug because they think they have gotten away with it.

    So what do we do? Personally, I think there is only one thing to do. And that is to let the world know that as an organization they are rotten to the core. We need to create as much transparency as possible with players about the situation and hope the financial consequences of that transparency are their downfall. We need to demonstrate a zero-tolerance approach to what they have done and we need to do everything we can to ensure the marketplace as a whole recognizes that being a rogue is a bad business decision.

    So how do we do this?

    In my opinion webmasters as a group need to work to educate players that Grand Prive is not to be trusted, and that players, casinos, and webmasters need to collectively take a stand against organizations like Grand Prive for the good of the industry and for our own personal good.

    Individual webmasters have taken actions to expose Grand Prive. But the actions have been limited. As a very first step in a much more aggressive public relations campaign we've decided it makes sense to produce a video that can be used to spread the word. Our plans are for J.Todd to film a video to deliver this message. Our hope and expectations is that webmasters here and everywhere will work with us and that together we can get the word out to a much wider audience of players that Grand Prive simply cannot be trusted.

    I think it is important that the contents of the video be a community effort. So below you will see a first-draft script for such a video. We'd like your feedback about what you thinkis done right in this draft and what you think could be done better. We want the video to reflect a message that everyone supports and a message that is crisp and clear and easy to understand so the distribution will be widespread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Draft Grand Prive Video Script
    Hi, I'm J Todd from the Association of Players, Casinos, and Webmasters, with a special message for anyone who plays online. Several months ago, the Grand Prive' Group of Casinos made a decision which has dramatically affected the gaming industry, and the fallout from that decision threatens to affect you too.

    You see, Grand Prive had an agreement with their webmasters... those are the people who run all the websites that help promote their casinos. This agreement is much like the Terms & Conditions that players agree to when they make a deposit and play at a Grand Prive site. Unfortunately, we now know that Grand Prive only honors these agreements when it's in their best interest.

    Recently, they made the decision to break the agreement they had with their webmaster partners. The same webmasters who had supported them and helped to build their brand in good faith under the compensation agreement that Grand Prive set forth. The same webmasters who made their casinos popular, successful, and profitable.

    What does this mean? It means that Grand Prive has made the conscious choice to keep hundreds of thousands of dollars in compensation that isn't theirs... compensation that is rightfully owed to their webmasters. Money they agreed to pay under a contract they wrote themselves. The money that webmasters earned honestly under that contract.

    Industry leaders, including eCogra, the GPWA, and the APCW have tried to work with Grand Prive to reach some sort of middle ground... but there is none. They don't want to discuss the issue... they aren't interested in reaching an agreement... and they don't care who they've hurt by taking this money.

    What does this mean if you play at online casinos? Well, if you don't want to risk having people keep your deposit or make off with your winnings, then it's pretty simple: DON'T play at any property operated by the Grand Prive group. Those sites are Bella Vegas and Jupiter Club Casinos... Grand Bay Casino and Grand Bay Poker.... plus Roadhouse Reels and Lake Palace casinos.

    We highly recommend you deal with these sites and their management with utmost caution, and consider any promises or offers they make with a high degree of skepticism. They lied to their webmasters... They stole their payments... And they don't even care enough to talk about it or correct their mistakes.

    If they will do all these horrible things to their partners, how do you think they will treat you, their customer? Players have too many choices in this industry to risk depositing money at rogue casinos operated by sketchy management who have repeatedly proven that they have no problem taking money that belongs to someone else.

    Online gambling can be fun and entertaining, but don't make stupid bets... play smart: And avoid the Grand Prive Casinos.


    (Show casino brands again)
    I look forward to hearing your thoughts and to working together with you in the battle against rogue operations like Grand Prive.

    Michael
    GPWA Executive Director, Casino City CEO, Friend to the Village Idiot

    Resources for Affiliates: iGamingDirectory.com, iGamingAffiliatePrograms.com, GamingMeets.com

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  3. #2
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    Great post.

    In the video, don't forget to mention Villa Fortuna. Grand Prive and Villa Fortuna are owned by the same people.

    I would also think about "naming names." If you know who the owner is, please name him. I believe his first name is Dinesh or Danesh, but I'm not positive. I think the last name could be Choudree -- again, I'm not positive. If I can get someone to confirm this, I'll add this information to my Grand Prive / Villa Fortuna blacklist article.

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    Great, time should not heal them. We need to keep public awareness up.

    Only one suggestion:

    (Show casino brands again)
    Maybe overlay them with a red X or something, so it desn't end up as a branding exercise in their favor, but the name is connected with a negative image.

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    Here is another suggestion for the J.Todd video.

    A collaboration of sorts could help this cause a bit and here is what may prove to be supremely beneficial to affiliates:

    Do some complete searches on the internet and determine all sites where their properties are being promoted. Contact the affiliate webmasters and talk to them about roguing the casino and putting [any other] property in it's place.

    This could be accomplished in 'waves' to help with spam filters and other such problems with email correspondences:

    i.e.,

    1st Wave - GPWA Letter
    2nd Wave - APCW Letter
    3rd Wave - AGD Letter


    At least one of the organizations should get through a filter and make contact with the webmaster.

    Quite possibly, if we work hard enough, we could 'convince' an operator to give the webmasters involved a special % increase in order to replace those banners with their own.

    Thoughts?

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    One could also flash a fast list of all the portals that have blacklisted them across the screen, there are quite a few of them.

    It doesn't have to be where it's slow enough to read the names, but I think it will be enough of them to make an impression.

    Maybe a line on the bottom of the screen that scrolls by....

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  11. #6
    Anthony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dominique View Post
    Great, time should not heal them. We need to keep public awareness up.

    Only one suggestion:



    Maybe overlay them with a red X or something, so it desn't end up as a branding exercise in their favor, but the name is connected with a negative image.
    I think that is a good idea, I like the visual effect of X ing through the brands.
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    Default Individuals under Grand Prive

    This type of "fraudulent" behavior makes me physically sick. Sticking big red X's all over the place will help, but, I feel a name and shame system of those responsible for the pathetic decision should also be introduced.

    After all, it was "they" that made the decision. I will be perfectly happy to place a paid Press Release on the web to warn everyone of this obvious and disgusting mal-practice.


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  14. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by QwertyCasino View Post
    This type of "fraudulent" behavior makes me physically sick. Sticking big red X's all over the place will help, but, I feel a name and shame system of those responsible for the pathetic decision should also be introduced.

    After all, it was "they" that made the decision. I will be perfectly happy to place a paid Press Release on the web to warn everyone of this obvious and disgusting mal-practice.

    Agreed...

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  16. #9
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    Industry leaders, including eCogra, the GPWA, and the APCW have tried to work with Grand Prive to reach some sort of middle ground... but there is none. They don't want to discuss the issue... they aren't interested in reaching an agreement... and they don't care who they've hurt by taking this money.
    I am curious what steps eCOGRA will take since they have a seal on the casino side. One one hand GP is screwing affiliates and on the other eCOGRA endorses the casinos. If this is the way it is 'set up' with eCOGRA then I don't think they are leaders in this case. JMO

    There is another discussion here:

    http://www.gpwa.org/forum/ecogra-aff...al-180471.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by QwertyCasino View Post
    I will be perfectly happy to place a paid Press Release on the web to warn everyone of this obvious and disgusting mal-practice.

    I did that: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/12/prweb1750234.htm

    It took over two days of back and forth to arrive at a wording that PRWEB would accept. They have to make sure they stay clear of any accusations of wrong doing unless accompanied by the number of a pending court case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by APCW Anthony View Post
    Agreed...

    I LOVE THAT!

    It's worthy of home page placement Above the fold!

  21. #12
    wagerprofits is offline Public Member
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    I will be sure not to **** you guys off.....


    Shaun

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    Quote Originally Posted by wagerprofits View Post
    I will be sure not to **** you guys off.....


    Shaun
    The only way I see that ever happening is if you went to work for/with them so I think your safe!

    BTW count me in on contributing to a paid press release if anyone does it and IMO the sooner the better!

    This may be the excuse I need to learn Photoshop! LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dominique View Post
    I did that: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/12/prweb1750234.htm

    It took over two days of back and forth to arrive at a wording that PRWEB would accept. They have to make sure they stay clear of any accusations of wrong doing unless accompanied by the number of a pending court case.
    Good start and i will certainly put a post in my blog. This may be a start of others doing the same thing (such as redhotrevenue who is probably doing the same now as they are ignoring everyone) so unless there is enough pressure and press to make others see the consequences then more will follow. Prive is setting a presidence for others to follow.

    Perhaps the answer lies with us to boycott or stop promoting microgaming as well, then microgaming will watchdog their clients more closely... its all about the money. If the software companies do not care, then why should we care about their games... there are a few software companies who might care enough to stop this trend or the efforts of years of affiliate marketers work goes down the drain.

    As with some industries, when a salesman gets too many clients, makes too much commission, and builds up the company then the company gets rid of the salesman. In this niche market, it is all too easy! Try suing a company in Costa Rica!!

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    What about an RSS feed that we could all use on our sites, that scrolls the names of their casinos, with WARNNG in big captials, rogueing them and thier affiliate site.?

    I don't know how you create an rss feed, but if it could be done, that would be great!
    Gambling forum offering the best in online gambling
    777casinoforum.com

    Online Casino portal featuring International Casinos
    qwertycasino.com

    The relaxed affiliate forum, filled with pleasant, thoughtful banter.
    Grab a cold one or a cup of coffee and relax with gambling industry professionals!

    GamblingAffiliatePlace

    Gambling & Casino News
    CasinoScamReport





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    So today Grant Prive probably thinks the matter is in the past. After all, there has not been much activity on the part of webmasters lately. They are probably feeling pretty smug. And nothing angers me more that a rogue who feels smug because they think they have gotten away with it.
    I use this pic on all my avatars that I have had time to change..lol We constantly update our members and remind them that this place is scum! I will be up for giving towards a paid campaign as well and also any videos that are made will be on our site for members to see.

    GPWA thank you for this effort it was starting to get quite bothersome that only a few of us are pissed off and want something done. I think a viral campaign would work wonders and Jay is just the guy to grab attention.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wagerprofits View Post
    I will be sure not to **** you guys off.....


    Shaun

    Don't worry Shaun, it will never happen....
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    I used to be one ReferSpot's, or now know as Grand Prive's, biggest affiliates. I've had $15k months with them. Much of there existing player base came from my site. I met with them at the 2005 Las Vegas CAC. I will be adding their casinos to our blacklist for the player's benefit. If they treat the affiliates like this, I wonder how they treat their players.

    Here are some names and numbers for you guys. I'm pretty sure that Gordon and Yashin own a part of the casinos. That's the impression that I got when having dinner with them long ago:

    Gordon Geldenhuys
    Yashin Ramdutt
    Irwin Reuben

    +1 888 881 7768
    +1 866 226 7858

    Casino Watchdogs
    Online Casino Gambling
    Link Building Direct - Get over 300 different backlinks

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    I agree with all of the above posts and especially like the " Lie, Cheat, Steal " banner. I think JTodd needs to keep reiterating the names of the actual casinos themselves. i.e Jupiter Club , Lake Palace etc to ensure that the players know exactly which casinos fall under Grand Prive, and of course the name of the owner is a must.

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    Default Take em Down

    Hubby Designed this banner:



    Feel free to use it in the video

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