Newbie needs advice before jumping in

**ekamil** · 31 December 2013, 6:43 am

Hi all

I hope to get some real advice from more experienced in gambling business.
I want to start an online bitcoin casino (saves me the costs of buying gambling license, which I can't afford now). I already found the software which would fit my small budget, in the beginning it would be small casino 6 - 8 games.
For the last few weeks I've been searching the internet for as much information as I can get and it looks depressing. Everywhere I read that this is the most difficult online business there is, SEO is almost impossible if you don't have a huge budget and a SEO guru which charges a few thousand $$ a month it's not worth starting etc etc. Many SEO companies refuse to work with gambling site as they are to difficult to rank in google. Most of the information available is really discouraging. I know this isn't a quick get rich scheme, but is it really that difficult to get any results?
Currently I'm running an online business (not associated with gambling) which going ok, doing my own SEO.
Please tell me is this industry so difficult as they write? and a newbie in the gambling industry without a huge budget is doomed for failure? From your experience bitcoin casinos are worth starting?

Thanks for any information!

**Moonlight Cat** · 31 December 2013, 7:31 am

Originally Posted by ekamil

Please tell me is this industry so difficult as they write?

Yes.

Originally Posted by ekamil

I want to start an online bitcoin casino (saves me the costs of buying gambling license, which I can't afford now).

p.s. ekamil, where are you from?

**ekamil** · 31 December 2013, 7:56 am

From Poland

**Sherlock** · 31 December 2013, 10:14 am

Kamil, no offense, but you are writing a lot of nonsense.

1st of all, you do not need a budget for working online, you need sharp mind and will to work hard.

Namely SEO (but everything not just SEO) is best when you do it by yourself. Everything you outsource is worse than if you do it by yourself.

Second note - you can not sell something you have no experience in. Well... you can, but results will be much worse.

You have to know arguments why you want your own casino and not just being affiliate, which is not that difficult, but with good revshare you are defacto shareholder. Why you want to promote it thru SEO when you do not know anything about SEO. Where is your edge?

Generally it is not about money, but about thinking out of box.

**Moonlight Cat** · 31 December 2013, 12:28 pm

Originally Posted by ekamil

From Poland

ekamil, I am not sure, but i think that unlicensed bitcoin casinos is illegal in Poland. Sherlock absolutely right - the best way
is start as affiliate.

**edgarf76** · 31 December 2013, 12:35 pm

inor-latin; mso-fareast-font-family:Cambria; mso-fareast-theme-font

inor-latin; mso-hansi-font-family:Cambria; mso-hansi-theme-font

inor-latin; mso-bidi-font-family:"Times New Roman"; mso-bidi-theme-font

inor-bidi;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in; mso-header-margin:.5in; mso-footer-margin:.5in; mso-paper-source:0;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </style> If you are starting an online casino I would gather you would need a license regardless of the currency. If you cannot afford the gambling licenses currently I would hold off until you have the resources to obtain a license. If you open a bitcoin casino and someone hits a progressive jackpot for 50K, how are you going to pay? Wouldn’t one player’s winnings be able to put you out of business?
Moving along to the SEO part, if you do not have a budget for SEO or have the knowledge to do you own SEO you are not setting yourself up for success. The reality is this is a bad idea in my opinion; it has way to many flaws especially the part about not having a license. If you don’t have a license, what smart player is going to play? With the Internet they will find out if you licensed or not. Also without a license you will most likely end up on a casino review sites blacklist. I would hold off, perhaps try affiliate marketing first if you have not done so already.

**Sherlock** · 31 December 2013, 1:03 pm

Well I do not agree with this licensing. The point of Bitcoineconomy is of course that there is no need for licenses. Bet365 operates without license in most countries and this industry started totally unregulated and was much safer like that.

The progressive jackpots simply need some solution where all casinos are involved. But anyways - to do casino without money - is silly. Bitcoineconomy is all about hard cash. In fiat money economy one can, in theory, always get a loan, id the business is sustainable. In Bitcoineconomy nobody sees "your cards". You need the cash.

But this is really not the issue. You are greedy man. You did not do anything and want to start something huge. I have seen so many young guys like you and they all failed. Start with something small, get your edge and develop something on it. Business can not be done like "oh there is bitcoin and gambling and I do not know anything but everyone is in so I will make money on it". Business is that you know some niche you are good at - or you master something - and based on it your business is chosen. You are not the one who chooses the business!

Indeed there are stories of lucky millionaires, who had no skill, just pure luck. There are not stories of millions of losers who did the same, just had no luck like the millionaires. To be sucessful you need to know who you are and what you can do. If it is nothing, which probably is, you have to show meekness and hard work. Best is to work for someone, show loyalty and completely forget about your ego. Once your dreams are ruined, then the success will come, but I can assure you that then you will not care about money.

Greetings from Czech, my dear neighbor.

**universal4** · 31 December 2013, 2:08 pm

I agree that you should start as an affiliate.

And trying to start a casino as an operator without a license is bad advice.

Rick
Universal4

**Sherlock** · 31 December 2013, 2:38 pm

Starting casino without experience is suicide. Btw. are there any pure online gambling brands who started in last years and made it to black numbers. At least in sportsbooks I bet none. And that says something about the industry and the difficulty. (Casinos and BTC might be different, but still this is winner takes it all niche generally).

Second note to think about: why even biggest casinos/bookies do not do SEO by themselves? Well they stop by onpage optimalsation and hope in natural linkbuilding. In other words, they outsource SEO on affiliates. It is difficult task even for companies with billion budget.

And now you come, with zero experience in anything and you want to start casino AND drive there traffic thru search engines. It is childish dream, nothing more.

**edgarf76** · 31 December 2013, 6:28 pm

Originally Posted by Sherlock

Well I do not agree with this licensing. The point of Bitcoineconomy is of course that there is no need for licenses. Bet365 operates without license in most countries and this industry started totally unregulated and was much safer like that.

The progressive jackpots simply need some solution where all casinos are involved. But anyways - to do casino without money - is silly. Bitcoineconomy is all about hard cash. In fiat money economy one can, in theory, always get a loan, id the business is sustainable. In Bitcoineconomy nobody sees "your cards". You need the cash.

But this is really not the issue. You are greedy man. You did not do anything and want to start something huge. I have seen so many young guys like you and they all failed. Start with something small, get your edge and develop something on it. Business can not be done like "oh there is bitcoin and gambling and I do not know anything but everyone is in so I will make money on it". Business is that you know some niche you are good at - or you master something - and based on it your business is chosen. You are not the one who chooses the business!

Indeed there are stories of lucky millionaires, who had no skill, just pure luck. There are not stories of millions of losers who did the same, just had no luck like the millionaires. To be sucessful you need to know who you are and what you can do. If it is nothing, which probably is, you have to show meekness and hard work. Best is to work for someone, show loyalty and completely forget about your ego. Once your dreams are ruined, then the success will come, but I can assure you that then you will not care about money.

Greetings from Czech, my dear neighbor.

I had no idea that bed365 didnt have a license. I thought it was mandatory at least in one jurisdiction. From my understanding some countries charge more than others. I do not know much about licensing. I do agree with you about jumping in and wanting it all. It is a recipe for failure. Loyalty too is important as well as humility, I would like to add gratuity to the list. I say what I am thankful for every day ( I have missed a few days here and there lol by I try)

A person led by there ego is someone being led by what other people think of them. I am not certain if that is the case here, only the person can judge. Getting back to the point, i would forget about starting your own online casino.

**ekamil** · 31 December 2013, 7:08 pm

Yes, that's true I don't have experience with online gambling, that's why I'm here asking questions. Usually before I start any type of business I really do my home work not to loose money. Before I jump in in may take weeks or months before I'm sure I know enough. From what I found out with gambling the key is quality traffic.To get it you need SEO, PPC and social presence ? With gambling sites it seems a little bit more difficult.

I don't worry about the legal issues as bitcoin isn't recognized as a currency therefor it is "not" really gambling and doesn't require a gambling license. (I did my home work

I'm Polish, live in Australia and am incorporated in another country

Even if it would require setting up a new offshore company that wouldn't be a big problem.

I already have some experience with online business which is going ok, I started it from scratch without previous experience - learn a lot on the way on my mistakes.

**Sherlock** · 31 December 2013, 7:43 pm

edgarf: as for licenses.. I was reacting to advice that it is bad idea to start casino in Poland without it... it is a great idea to start unlicenced gambling with low fees and margins in Poland, but it must have chance to attract the trust of people and must be run by someone with skill and knowledge

in many countries it is almost impossible to get licence, at least for small operator not connected to government by corruption or/and the licence fees are prohibiting (see France..gambling is dead there now, since the taxes from legal business simply made the odds unbearable even for stupidest bettors [compare odds at bwin.fr and bwin.com etc])

there are monkey business carribean licenses, that are in fact just excuse for few dollars... in past many great sites had them and some still operate under them (Pinnacle, 5dimes, TheGreek etc.) or there are big asian bookies which status is even more shady

the point is that money, business etc. is always about trust and in gambling it was always like that, but from 2006 and UIGEA which started the avalanche of licensing, it all went to wrong way and even affiliates and bookies jumped on the bandwagon

I can undertsand that big operators try to be licensed in every stupid country and leave there the most of their income, since it still pays them off, because their ads show on Tv's from sport events etc and this makes the promotion cheaper. But for BTC gambling the way will be thru nonlicensing at least thru not licensing by states. So the chance for new wave of operators indeed IS an unlicensed economy without taxes and using bitcoin and it will work like worked unlicensed gambling 10 years ago and how now drug market works without problems and licenses at Silk Road.

I just do not agree that some kid with no experience can push this through. We need some big name to accept bitcoin (and I bet it will be Pinnacle or Asia amybe Bodog) or at least to back the business. The prodigy kid business in gambling was worth of the shot in last century, now is way too late.

ekamil - to do the business and gain experience and especially in gambling you have to lose money and you have to afford it

i am professional gambler as well and i advise to pro gamblers let they try to be affiliates; here is another advice - try to be casino player... try to make money with bonuses or something like that, get into the industry

Anyways what makes you so sure you need to run PPC or SEO AND casino at once amazes me. Do you understand that if you want to deliver good product, you have to deal with BTC processors, you have to create decent customer service, you have to have servers running (maybe under some tor technology), you have to do many things that must match quite precisely and on the top of that you want to make PPC propagation or SEO which is time/money/energy costly as hell? Why you want to target with those tools audience that is just small fraction of geeks, that are around certain websites? Why do not want you to run campaigns there. But even if you do - you think that people will trust to some new brand? You are Mr. Nobody in gambling, who will trust you and why? What extra do you offer to clients? Those are questions that everyone has to answer.

If I knew answers for those questions I would start my own business, but even when I know gambling from many sides and I have huge traffic on my websites, I would not go for it.

On the other hand - everyone wants to be burnt by himself and if you bet on the casino only what you can lose, go for it, from what I understand you can not help yourself. But the mastery is to understand and accept the reality, where it is obvious. This inner fight is up to you. I also have silly thoughts to **** one girl from neigborhood, but I have to fight with the stupid idea because then I break my relationship. The create bitcoin casino is not a good idea for a person in your situation.

Again - no offense - but so far I think the bitcoin gambling projects are run by amateurs and this is the reason why I ignore to promote them.

**DanHorvat** · 1 January 2014, 6:42 am

Originally Posted by ekamil

Please tell me is this industry so difficult as they write? and a newbie in the gambling industry without a huge budget is doomed for failure? From your experience bitcoin casinos are worth starting?

It got difficult lately as you got market leaders in almost every segment now. But the industry so rich you can make a nice income even with 0.1% of some market and then grow from there. So I'd rather suggest an affiliate website with bitcoin casino reviews and educational articles. You learn about it by writing about it. If/when you grow a customer base and gain trust, you may add a casino game or two.

Don't do a project just because you like the idea of it, do the projects which are good.

**TheGooner** · 1 January 2014, 4:04 pm

Originally Posted by edgarf76

I had no idea that bed365 didnt have a license.

Bet365 do have a gambling license - several in fact.
Sherlock is incorrect.

For sports betting, Bet365 is licensed and regulated by the UK Gambling Commission.

Bet365's casino, games and poker operations are licensed and regulated by the Government of Gibraltar.

In addition to the company headquarters in Stoke-on-Trent, bet365 have further offices in Gibraltar and Australia. The Australian business is regulated and licensed by the Northern Territory Government,.

Currently Bet365 do not accept players from United States, Belgium, France, Holland, Turkey or Italy because they do not hold licenses there ... but they are working towards several of the local European licenses so that they can accept those countries again.

**Sherlock** · 1 January 2014, 4:23 pm

again, I was reacting to fact, that they do not have license in POLAND

license from UK is invalid

geez, they go after my ISP in middle europe that i promote ILLEGAL OPERATOR bet365, glad that my servers doe smy guy who told the gambling commission in here to **** off and they will not reveal who I am

Bet365 now tries to legalize their business, but in many countries they obviously go against the governments and circumvent what they can

Look at Bulgary, look at Italy, look at Poland, Germany, Czech, Slovakia, Hungary, former Yugoslavia. Do not read what they officially say. Look what they REALLY do there. I will not say anything beacuse it is not my intention to harm Bet365, but in most countries they operate without license and Poland is included. The EU is dead, EU license means nothing. This battle was lost. If you look at any of the countries above, Bet365 is strong there, somewhere #1 online and governments hate them there.

**Sherlock** · 1 January 2014, 4:30 pm

..in other words, from Polish view and from view of law, which is insignificant because what matters is money...

if you are in Poland and you promote or own Bet365 (the biggest world bookie indeed licensed in many states and 89th biggest Polish website according to alexa) or some scam casino from Aruba isle, you are in the same position from the point of view of Polish authorities, they do not make a difference here

so to run completely anonymous BTC casino is probably safer way (I do not say the proper way, but safer, yes)

**Sherlock** · 1 January 2014, 10:22 pm

i found the letter my guys from server got, it says Bet365 operates illegaly/unlicenced in member state of EU; same approach has USA according to Carribean or Kahnawake licensed operators

Bookies and casinos totally lost momentum in this battle after they lost the case Bwin vs. Portugal and they withdraw from more and more markets. I see few affiliate accounts where taxes are much higher then the rest of yield that has to be divided between bookie and me. Time will show that this is opportunity for unlicensed bookies that will have much higher ROI and will be able to pay much higher commission to us. For states with banned or overregulated gambling is cryptocurrency gambling a future. Turkey, France and Islamic states are for sure some of them.

So this is the reason why I reacted here. Affiliates should understand that regulated market is bith good and bad for business. It is good since operators are free to promote their business and gamblers have no difficulty with banking. But it is very bad since the ROI can drop to very low fraction. Especially in Europe the states are too greedy and they do not understand that gambling has very low margins (sportsbetting low %'s, casino games like blackjack can have house edge 0.4% or much lower by BJ switch) and you can not impose turnover tax on gambling like 5, 8 or even more %.

So far gambling is hot and growing each year and I think and maybe I am wrong..the state regulation overall is good for industry, but as the market will be penetrated a states with budget deficits will be even more greedy, the U turn will come and then we will have to promote illegal operators, by the time it will be BTC bookies. Not a big change since even now it pays off to promote illegal gambling everywhere except Western Europe. So please do not advise to Polish kid to do legal affiliate business. The best bookies for Poland are the illegal ones now if I am not wrong. Maybe if those (legal) guys start affiliate in Poland https://www.efortuna.pl/ might be worth of a shot, but if I read it correctly, they have no affiliate for Poland.

And here is the threat from state to the guys who do my servers (you can bet it is snitching from legal bookies who have bribed state officers (so they have double incentive to act) and who threaten all affiliates in my country and go namely after the affiliates who promote Bet365, Bwin and Betfair).

**ball2win_affiliate** · 2 January 2014, 1:29 am

when government pointing those deep pocket big boys like bet365 & Bwin, maybe that's the chance and timing for small operators.

those big boys today are almost every where: you can see them at any places where can put their banners.......

**Moonlight Cat** · 2 January 2014, 2:37 am

Originally Posted by Sherlock

again, I was reacting to fact, that they do not have license in POLAND
license from UK is invalid

As i know, we talk about license that acceptable in place where ekamil is physically located. I think if you start your own casino, you must have license that legal in country, where you physically located.
For example, If you start online casino for chinese market, of course this license - is invalid in China. But
if your physically located in UK, you don't have problem with UK authorities. But if you start ununlicensed casino,
you have problem in any country. This is the reason, that all gambling operators, who work on illegal markets,
buy license, that protect them in country where they physically located.

If you physically located in UK and buy license that OK in UK (Malta for example) , this is protect you from UK authorities and
authorities of countries that not cooperate with UK. But if you start unlicensed casinos - this is = problem with any countries.

For example,
1.) I get license that Ok in UK, and start casino for Chinese market. This mean:
1.1.) UK Authorities = No Problem
1.2.) People's Republic of China Authorities = PROBLEM.

2.) I Start unlicense casino. This mean:
1.1.) UK Authorities = Problem
1.2.) People's Republic of China Authorities = PROBLEM.

Sorry for my English, i hope all understand, what i mean.

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