CAP Sringbreak Was Started By WHom

[AndreS]

Just an fyi for those who don't know JTodd's history, he also produced the best online casino reviews the industry has ever seen, literally, seen. They were video reviews (long before YouTube) and JTodd acted out the 'theme' of the online casino in the form of a mini-movie. They were more entertaining than actually playing at any of the casinos. I am not surprised CAP has not stolen that idea too, because you actually have to have a personality to pull some of this **** off.

PS - CAP also stole about 50 (before I stopped counting)news stories from our sites after they created their 'news forum' without crediting the original source, unlike the GPWA 'buzz' section which 'buzzy' does as good a job as he can at crediting the original source.

[pgaming]

Okay I will admit CAP spring break was one hell of great time back in 2006. I don’t forget easily there Captain. Not a clue you were responsible for the concept! If it were called Captain’s Spring break I would surely attend.

Jtodd awesome summary of events, truly sickening IMO, Ah but you it is never over until the Fat Lady Sings (so the saying goes). I too would like to see a public apology this did happen in public after all. Good thing Pres Obama is not running the show; Lou would be before the senate committee.

Excellent observations regarding the CAC, another disposable victim I suppose.

IMO CAP in all its’ falsity is rogue no doubts regarding the one man show, nothing changing there. Call me the “Village Idiot”…

greek39

[Captain]

Hey Everyone,
Believe or not I am not drinking or this evening. The first Spring Break happen in 2003 when a few members here at GPWA met in Miami Beach for a meeting each other face to face for the first time. It was all fun and no business as far as AM attending. We mostly partied and enjoyed the beach and then there was the Doll House. The people that got together that spring was Professor, Moongoose, Talkcasinos, Oneguy, DVS, Dave, Steve L, Spearmaster, Yorktown, the German Girl , and I. Those were fun days that will never be forgotten. Hope to see better days ahead.

[TheCPA]

Fair points Arkyt.

I have always tried to avoid talking to Affiliate Managers via the telephone.
If I didn't,..... I'd be on the phone 12 hours a day,... at least!

At any rate, there are a few that I do talk to ocassionally.
Mainly the ones I make good money with! LOL

What I am hearing on my end is that the ROI on the CAP Board buys is not worthwhile. The numbers are awful, purely from an ROI perspective.

I don't think many of them really give a hoot about Effective Media, CardSpike or any of that whole debacle, BTW.

What I am hearing is that they feel like they need to be WHERE the Webmasters are.
Yes, they pick up some new affiliates, but they just feel like they need to have a presence there because it is,...or used to be, the most active Webmaster forum.

My analysis is that they view it more as Branding Investment for their Affiliate Program, not so much as a hard core ROI related investment like they would expect from a Media Buy, or something of that nature.

I suspect the whole Conference Mania thing going on out there is based on the same logic!

So Yes. I agree on this Arkyt.
They all need to RE-THINK where they are spending their money, and consider investing some of those dollars in helping the MAJORITY of Webmasters that can't afford to JetSet around the world to all of these non stop Conferences.

Send the Big Boys a nice check and let them enjoy their success that way, in their own way.

Put the rest of it into helping the Small timers become Big timers!
Your ROI will SOAR TOO if you do that.
JMO, of course!

[TheCPA]

Believe or not I am not drinking or this evening.

Hysterical.
You feeling OK?
Should we send an ambulance over?

Despite the differences on some things, you still crack me up Captain.

[arkyt]

My analysis is that they view it more as Branding Investment for their Affiliate Program, not so much as a hard core ROI related investment like they would expect from a Media Buy, or something of that nature.

They all need to RE-THINK where they are spending their money, and consider investing some of those dollars in helping the MAJORITY of Webmasters

Possibly it does have something to do with branding, but IMO, most join CAP because they think that there's an affiliate base of 8000+ to recruit from - fact is thats simply not the case - more like 200 or so and nearly everyone of them are already established affiliates thus the listing fee is a wasted investment. Maybe they didnt actually check the numbers - maybe now that they see 64% of CAPS members have never made a post and that most likely the greatest percentage of them are SPAM bots - they will use the info during their reassessing of where they are headed!

Obviously I dont participate over at CAP, but when I did I dont recall very many programs actually playing an active role on that site. Most programs bought their certificate, they got their advertising spot on the forum and they never showed up to participate in the forums. Questions would be asked - issues raised yet there wasnt much if any response from the cert holders.

What value did that offer CAP members? What value did that offer the industry as a whole?

Without any doubt in my mind - the money thats being spent on CAP certifications and on CAP conferences could be spent much more wisely.

[mojo]

Hey Everyone,
Believe or not I am not drinking or this evening. The first Spring Break happen in 2003 when a few members here at GPWA met in Miami Beach for a meeting each other face to face for the first time. It was all fun and no business as far as AM attending. We mostly partied and enjoyed the beach and then there was the Doll House. The people that got together that spring was Professor, Moongoose, Talkcasinos, Oneguy, DVS, Dave, Steve L, Spearmaster, Yorktown, the German Girl , and I. Those were fun days that will never be forgotten. Hope to see better days ahead.

That sounds wonderful Captain and what I would like to see. I have never been to a conference and do not forsee myself changing that anytime soon. As CPA said, I won't jetset all over the world. I won't spend 2500 a ticket to attend. We have lost the spirit that you speak of and thank you for bringing it up.

Conferences are to me an expensive party the that likes of P.Diddy puts on. That kind of travel money can go to much better things in this industry as arkyt is trying to say. Conferences are getting out of hand with the same people going all the time. How many new affilaites go?

It is now pretty obvious Conferencing means keep up with the Jonses. Has anyone asked what affiliates want? The rumours are flying now that some special affiliates get their trips paid for. They go free of charge! I guess I am left out of that loop. No one has offered to fly me to a conference.

Conferences are also on a slippery slope right now IMO. It has become a huge commercial enterprise and we need to simply get back to the basics.

[Integrity]

...So I didn't thank you! A full, public apology is due you by Lou, period, no ifs, ands, or buts about it!!

Well, thank you for that. But I don't believe Lou is really sorry for what he did toward me at all... unless it's showing his true colors.

Doing so in front of many paying member programs may actually have him feeling some regret, but it's certainly not a troubled conscious.

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And why do you keep that God awful award seal in you signature? It is nohang to be proud of!! It means nothang!!

I originally put it into my signiture to make a point: I was the "Affiliate of the Year" last year, and now look what they say about me.

I kept it up because --- as Dominique rightfully pointed out --- it was given to me by my peers... not by Lou or Warren. Other affiliates and affiliate managers voted for me, and for that I am proud. That does mean something.

I am keeping it in my signiture for the time being as a symbol of solidarity. Webmasters really need to remain cohesive at this time. I have friends posting at CAP, and I want them to know that I care about them and know they are not responsible for the actions of Lou & Warren.

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Arkyt, you are right... there are many things I left off that list. The GPWA was working with Facebook, and the APCW had rolled out our "interactive" social networking site, almost an entire year before "MyCAP" was debuted, for example.

I guess there's just too much for any one person to remember it all! LOL! Thanks for filling in the places I missed.

[Spearmaster]

Hey Everyone,
Believe or not I am not drinking or this evening. The first Spring Break happen in 2003 when a few members here at GPWA met in Miami Beach for a meeting each other face to face for the first time. It was all fun and no business as far as AM attending. We mostly partied and enjoyed the beach and then there was the Doll House. The people that got together that spring was Professor, Moongoose, Talkcasinos, Oneguy, DVS, Dave, Steve L, Spearmaster, Yorktown, the German Girl , and I. Those were fun days that will never be forgotten. Hope to see better days ahead.

Haha Cappy, u have a great memory... I didn't get to meet the German Girl that night... but that was a really fun trip

[Jinnia]

Well, thank you for that. But I don't believe
Lou is really sorry for what he did toward me at all... unless it's
showing his true colors.

Doing so in front of many paying member programs may actually have
him feeling some regret, but it's certainly not a troubled conscious.

I definitely agree with you on the above!!

I originally put it into my signiture to make a
point: I was the "Affiliate of the Year" last year, and now look what
they say about me.

As you said below, it was given to you by a vote of other affiliates and
affiliate managers, not Lou or Warren, what is the point you're making
by keeping it in place? What "they (Lou, Cap, Warren, whoever)" say
about you makes it a moot point, don't it?

I kept it up because --- as Dominique rightfully
pointed out --- it was given to me by my peers... not by Lou or
Warren. Other affiliates and affiliate managers voted for me, and
for that I am proud. That does mean something.

I am keeping it in my signiture for the time being as a symbol of
solidarity. Webmasters really need to remain cohesive at this
time. I have friends posting at CAP, and I want them to know that I
care about them and know they are not responsible for the actions of
Lou & Warren.

Since it was given to by a vote of other affiliates and affiliate
managers, I suppose that's good.

[alexpratt]

J.Todd - Just want to clarify a few things you said there which I believe are false - Obvuiously I can only comment on the parts of the business I am respobsible for

CAP Events - These came about because affiliates were being charged to attend events which we didn't believe was right and the CAC staff made some unfortunate comments leading up to the Vegas event which resulted in an extremely large amount of affiliates and operators asking us specifically to put on an event that would reflect what the affiliates and operators wanted. This is exactly what we did and teh rapid usccess and growth the events have felt is because in my opion we have continued to keep teh philosopy Affiliates come first hence, the free bar, free entrance, loss making award tickets, ASOP etc.
Amsterdam I have explained in other threads and it is largely due to the fact that we wanted to partner with a4uexpo Europe (www.a4uexpo.com) who are preceeding our event and had already chosen Amsterdam - The event was actually planned much later on but a4u had to move it to April/May because of other conflicting retail affiliate events.
Springbreak is a F up that it coincides - But to be fair we had been talking to the hotel long before CAC suddenly moved its dates back to March 30th

CAP Magazine
Your statement is completely false and I can 100% verify that as CAP Magazine was my idea. I was running affiliate supplements in iGaming Business which wern't working as well as I wanted and during a meeting at ICEi 2006 I suggested to Warren that he allow our company to publish a magazine for them, i.e. use our skills and their brand. The mag deal was signed at SpringBreak and launched in August that year.
CAP Mag was never out there to copy you or put you out of business it was simply a natural growth from 4 years of affiliate supplements in iGaming Business

ASOP
Where did Lou tout this as a non profit making product - I will say the margins are incredibly small as the tables, dealers, legal (v expesnive) $$ prizes, bracelet, stand space the sponsor receieves quickly add up. From the start we have always tried to make the prizes as big as we possibly good but still deliver a profit (as after all we do have employees who do need to be paid) and I think we have accomplished that. You for one have enjoyed these tourneys and have never once said to me as the organiser that you find them "wrong"

Alan,

Many of us know very well who's idea spring break was... who "took" it and ran... and what it has become today.

Like so many other great ideas in this industry it was taken, re-branded as CAP Property, and made into a profit machine. Let's look at what Lou and Warren have done with CAP and where many of the ideas came from:
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CAP Certification
Certification may not be novel, but the only thing "certification" means here is that a program can afford to pay an outrageous amount of money every quarter for access to the CAP forums. Many forums of "certified partners" at CAP are actually quite dead, so why pay all the cash?

Some affiliate managers have told me that it's because, if you don't pay, it's made quite clear they would not have access to the conferences or other advertising venues. Also note that CAP has what some would call very questionable affiliate programs as "certified" members. So really, it's no secret that "certification" is just a huge cash cow with little to do about integrity.

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CAP Conferences
Does CAP put on a good show? Yea, I admit they do... but once again it's because they are attended by my friends and iGaming Business organizes a great event... not because we want to see Lou & Warren that badly. So how did all of these events get started?

Lou's friend, Alan (the Captain here) actually came up with the original idea of "Spring Break". Lou took it and ran, piggybacking off the timing of GIGSE in Montreal. The original event was in 2004, I believe.

When Marc Lesnick stumbled in 2006 with his Vegas show (already scheduled after the Caruthers arrest and just before UIGEA passed) Lou and Warren seized the opportunity to take him out. Ever since then they have looked for every chance to destroy his events.

Don't believe me? Then why did they add CAP Amsterdam to the rotation when they already had CAP London & CAP Barcelona? I know they are most likely changing the venue from Spain, but why Amsterdam? And why was it originally scheduled for 2 weeks after the CAC Event? To force us to choose and destroy Lesnick's last big event.

Still don't believe me? Then why --- after Mr Lesnick moved his event to March 30th to avoid a conflict --- did Lou decide to make CAP Spring Break March run through March 28th in Mexico? Because he knows affiliates cannot attend both.

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CAP Magazine
Many of you may not be aware that the APCW started a print magazine back in March of 2006 called APCW Perspectives (that's where we borrowed the name Perspectives Weekly from). It was only distributed at CAC events but was quite well received. Now I know that a magazine is not a groundbreaking idea, but it was 3 months later that Lou and Warren just decided... quite "out of the blue"... to start CAP Magazine.

I called Lou about the decision and asked him why they were doing a magazine as well. After all, CAP was making 100 times more cash than APCW and we really needed the revenue. Lou said that he wasn't competing with me, to which I replied "WHAT?"

He was focusing on the same audience, the same news, and the same advertisers. And when I pointed this out to him, he said: "Oh well. Best of luck to you." This cold, matter-of-fact response would soon become the norm for dealing with him.

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CAP Portal Seal
I interviewed Michael Corfman about the GPWA Portal Seal's back in 2006 on one of the first Perspectives Weekly. It was a great idea, so it didn't take Lou long to sniff it out.

The CAP Portal Seal is a direct rip off of the GPWA. Noticing a pattern now?

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CAP T&C Software
A friend of mine, Andy, poured himself into a great idea: Develop a software to automatically scan affiliate programs Terms and Conditions pages for unannounced alterations that could hurt affiliates. This became Affiliate Guard Dog.

Lou once again seized the day and offered Andy a "deal he can't refuse" to give CAP the software. When Andy turns down the deal, Affiliate Guard Dogs days at CAP are numbered... and he's eventually gone... forum erased... and banned (This was only a short time after Lou removed the APCW forums, too). AGD and APCW forums has added value to CAP, and instead of appreciating that value it was viewed as an attainable commodity.

CAP now has/is developing their own T&C software? What a "fresh" idea!

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CAP TV
Everyone knows that the APCW led the way for our industry in video. We expected that, eventually, there would be competition... no surprise. We even knew that CAP would try to be a player in the genre. What many don't know is that the APCW was going to be CAP TV if Lou had gotten his way.

After banning both Anthony and I at CAP, Lou "tossed us a bone" by flying me to Barcelona to meet wit him and Warren about a buy out, and becoming a part of the CAP team. He made a really poor offer and wanted me to cut Anthony... my friend of almost 25 years... out of the business.

Anthony helped make APCW what it had become... I told Lou this... he didn't care. He wanted me to take a small salary, cut my best friend out of the business, and become his propaganda tool. After talking about things and receiving a poor "counter offer" from Warren, I spoke it over with Anthony and we declined.

It was shortly afterward that Michael was contacted and a deal was made. Ever since, Lou has ranted and raved and called me names in his forums.

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CAP ASOP
A while back, Lou touted the ASOP as one way he gives back to the industry. Yea, and he makes a healthy profit off of it as well. I know first hand that the sponsors pay a hell of a lot more that the prize pool that's given out, and the rest goes in someones pocket.

It wouldn't be that big a deal, really, because this is a business and we're all here to make a living. But don't trumpet the ASOP as a great contribution to online gaming when you actually run the thing as a money maker.

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PAP Radio
I have good friends that run an online radio station, and they attended CAP London last year. It was at that event that PAP members approached and asked all kinds of questions and seemed genuinely interested in how they did what they did. Can you guess why? LOL!

It wasn't too long before PAP Radio was on the air. Again, there's no monopoly on this technology, but there is a definite pattern of behavior developing.

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CAP Audits
The latest "look at CAP" stunt involves their so-called audits. They finally produced one for Rome Casino, and it was widely viewed as a catastrophe because of it's complete un-professionalism and getting just about everything wrong.

It's no secret that the APCW has been conducting successful audits of casinos and affiliate programs since 2004, and that those audits have produced positive results in the industry, even when they were not flattering of the casinos or programs themselves.

Just another un-original copy of another's hard work, and re-branded with the all-important CAP Logo.

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I know I know, some of you will say I am bitter or bringing up the past or whatever... I expect to hear it. But do you guys know Warren has actually asked Michael to apologize for "issues" related to Cardspike... twice???!!! It's true!

So with the deliberate deceptions we have seen over the past month... with the audacity of Lou and Warren to now expect GPWA and APCW to apologize to them... with the years and years of taking others hard work and re-branding it as their own... I ask you all:



Why have Lou and Warren made NO PUBLIC APOLOGY about all the Cardspike lies?

Why do they NOT CARE enough to come clean and explain their actions to everyone?

Are webmasters, players, and operators not worth FINALLY hearing the truth come from their mouths?



Tell ya what... let's just forget all about it, look the other way, and get back to "business as usual" or whatever... Everyone ok with that?



PS > I PERSONALLY DO NOT WANT AN APOLOGY FROM LOU FOR HIS ACTIONS TOWARD ME IN LONDON BECAUSE IT WAS THE FIRST TRULY GENUINE ACT WE'VE SEEN FROM HIM IN A WHILE.

.

[pdjoe]

These came about because affiliates were being charged to attend events which we

Alex,

In other threads here, you say you are seperate from CAP? Are you working for them or do you have your own interest? The use of the word we makes me wonder?

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Just on a side note, I have to say that imv the promotion of the CAP event on the GPWA forum was quite cheeky, given all the foregoing angst. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Tricky one: Alex works for an independent company on organisation and promotion of <ACRONYM title="Casino Affiliate Programs">CAP</ACRONYM> conferences so he's only doing his job IMO, and it's up to Michael to decide who posts what on their forums. But I agree that it gives an odd impression to those who don't see the distinction, especially as some of his posts give the impression he is employed by <ACRONYM title="Casino Affiliate Programs">CAP</ACRONYM>. <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
__________________

http://www.casinomeister.com/forums/...-rogued-7.html

Thanks in advance,

Joe

[Dominique]

There are independent contractors working on gamesandcasino, and I continually use the word "we".

That's logical because we discuss development and I decide many things on the basis of their knowledge and skill.

They own no part of my business, they are contracted to take care of some aspects I cannot deal with myself efficiently.

Likewise, they use the word "we" all the time, because "we" discuss issues and arrive at solutions.

I think this is nit-picking.

I happen to know (and anyone in the industry can confirm) that Alex works for a company that contracts for services, (I-gaming Business) and Affiliate Media is one of the companies they contract with.

I also know Alex personally and know he has integrity and a lot of common sense, and I bet Jtodd and Michael and many others will confirm this.

[Integrity]

CAP Events - These came about because affiliates were being charged...and the CAC staff made some unfortunate comments...

Yes, timing is everything, my friend.

CAP Spring Break was already growing into something much bigger by 2006... everyone remembers Miami of 2006... and Lou & Warren were certainly noticing the enormous profit potential by that time as well.

When Spring Break "morphed" from a bunch of drunk guys puking off the side of a fishing boat into a party-and-sessions event, then came the arrests of Carruthers and Dicks, followed by Lesnicks statements, and finally the passage of UIGEA... all of which openned a door big enough even for Lou to walk through (pun intended).

The bottom line is CAP targeted events the same way they had targeted everything bearing the CAP BRAND ( S S S ) and they continue to this day to target events and anything else creative enough to steal.

The "how" or "why" Lou & Warren did this is really moot.

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Amsterdam...is largely due to the fact that we wanted to partner with a4uexpo Europe www.a4uexpo.com who...had already chosen Amsterdam... Springbreak is a F up that it coincides......

I see... Hmmm... Another incident of "unfortunate circumstances" and awful timing, I suppose. This seems to be a pattern for poor ol' Lou & Warren, doesn't it? :


The discusting way the original CAP's Portal Seal was somehow rolled out several months earlier by Michael, then cleverly branded as a "GPWA Portal Seal" before CAP had the chance to act...

The weird way that the CAP Audits finally made their "triumphant" debut last month, having been stolen by the APCW some 4 years earlier, only to make a well-timed reappearance after the APCW/CAP deal fell through...

The almost surreal way Affiliate Guard Dog's Terms & Conditions Software was actually envisioned and developed by Lou... that mad genius of our industry... and somehow still rolled out by Andy a years or more before CAP announced they had the original...

The way the beautifully unique MyCAP was ready to be released over a year ago, but deliberatly held back so that the APCW and GPWA could beat Lou & Warren to the punch... yet again... with our own social networking roll outs, giving CAP the chance to play catch-up... yet again... that's just damn good marketing strategy!



I guess Lou and Warren really are the victims here:






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Your statement is completely false and I can 100% verify that as CAP Magazine was my idea.

Alex! Alex! Alex! Alex!!!

I'm 100% completely sure that you believe this... and maybe it's true. There's no way to tell who's got the real story because there are so many different versions of the truth... so much smoke... so many mirrors.

Lou took credit for being the "brain child" of your baby when I questioned him about the magazine in 2006. And during our merger talks in the fall of 2008 Warren told me the magazine was HIS idea? Now that is 100% completely true.

I like you, Alex, but there will be a time when this worm turns, my friend, and all the spin in the world isn't going to stop it.

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ASOPWhere did Lou tout this as a non profit making product...You for one have enjoyed these tourneys and have never once said to me as the organiser that you find them "wrong"

You should re-read my post, Alex. Never said Lou "touted" them as non-profit. Never said they were "wrong". In fact, I said that the conferences (ASOP included) were well done and a lot of fun.

What I did say was Lou "touted" these ASOP events as some great philanthropical gift to the online gaming community... which is the typical CAP spin...

Tuth is the ASOP is a great way to get more affiliates to the events and make some more cash. Nothing wrong with that, Alex, but Lou tried to place it just below the immaculate conception.

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There has been a consistant effort by Lou and Warren both --- since 2005 or so --- to monopolize this market and destroy all the competition at any cost to this industry. That's what's tearing us all apart, not the exposing of the truth. I see it. Other affiliates see it. Operators see it. Affiliate managers see it. Someday, Alex, I hope you see it as well.

We all know that you are a great guy caught in a bad situation. So keep one foot on the dock, kind sir, and the other on the ship where your bread is being buttered. Because when that ship starts to sink, I don't wanna see you dragged to the bottom with it.

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STILL WAITING FOR A REPLY FROM LOU AND WARREN, BY THE WAY:

Why have Lou and Warren made NO PUBLIC APOLOGY about all the Cardspike lies?

Why do they NOT CARE enough to come clean and explain their actions to everyone?

Are webmasters, players, and operators not worth FINALLY hearing the truth come from their mouths?



Pull up a chair, friends... may be a long wait.


.

[Webzcas]

JTodd,

Just a quick one as you have PM's disabled. Is it okay for any of us to embed perspective weekly videos into an article on our sites if we so wish, as long as we don't edit them at all. The one I am interested in using is the 23rd Jan

[Anthony]

JTodd,

Just a quick one as you have PM's disabled. Is it okay for any of us to embed perspective weekly videos into an article on our sites if we so wish, as long as we don't edit them at all. The one I am interested in using is the 23rd Jan

Feel free to use the videos. We appreciate you think enough of them to repost. Thank you!

[arkyt]

I was running affiliate supplements in iGaming Business which wern't working as well as I wanted and during a meeting at ICEi 2006 I suggested to Warren that he allow our company to publish a magazine for them, i.e. use our skills and their brand. The mag deal was signed at SpringBreak and launched in August that year.

I recall you running a free ad for iGAMI - one related to going after unethical affiliates. I will have to get in touch with you to see about running ads in the CAP magazine,

You think that would be possible?

[bonustreak]

I also know Alex personally and know he has integrity and a lot of common sense, and I bet Jtodd and Michael and many others will confirm this.

Agreed! Alex is a top notch guy <!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[republican]

The people at PAP are also still copying Jeremy Enke with their new 'sticky posts' on the brainstorming thread. They deleted the original one that was amazing and full of ideas. Now they are trying to make it theirs. Another copy.



It's very sad. Thank you Captain for posting this very good news. I always thought you were a moderator like Dom at CAP LOL.

Quote:
<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td class="alt2" style="border: 1px inset ;"> I also know Alex personally and know he has integrity and a lot of common sense, and I bet Jtodd and Michael and many others will confirm this. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>
Agreed! Alex is a top notch guy

Alex was very good and nice in London. It was my first affiliate convention and he saved it. I saw the fighting and questioned if this was even a good place to be!! I will be going to CAC shows now and I am glad they have them.

[Randy]

The people at PAP are also still copying Jeremy Enke with their new 'sticky posts' on the brainstorming thread. They deleted the original one that was amazing and full of ideas. Now they are trying to make it theirs. Another copy.

"The people" that you're talking about was me, and I didn't delete the original thread. I unstickied it and started a new one. It was a popular discussion topic that hadn't been updated in a long time. There are several new members at the forum, so it made sense to start a new thread. My intention wasn't to "copy" Jeremy. We're friends, and we used to be 50/50 partners on PAP. I might have been a partner at the time that supposedly-deleted thread was started, but I don't remember all of the exact dates. But Jeremy and I are still friends, and I'm sure he wouldn't mind if I pointed out that he didn't exactly invent the idea of "brainstorming".