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    Default How do you handle this?

    Last edited by mojo; 2 September 2009 at 2:22 am.

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    Bad or not most conferences allow any program who shell out some bucks to attend. This in turn buys the program a get out of jail free card. Plus it provides an excellent opportunity to meet new nieve affiliates. A never ending cycle of specific people wallet size getting bigger at the expense of more nobler persons.

    JMO

    greek39

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    I for one am glad that you are shining the light on this issue mojo. We have to do something to combat all of the roguish and underhanded things going on with some of the brand recently. IMO the answer is NO, NADA, NEVER!

    Why should others be allowed to make money and gain exposure to affiliates when they are out to break contracts and apply retro-active terms? The PRESSURE will be aimed at this type of thing starting now.

    Each organization in this industry that has the opportunity to apply pressure to brands in the above category should do so unconditionally.

    It may not happen over night, but change is coming.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GamTrak View Post
    I for one am glad that you are shining the light on this issue mojo. We have to do something to combat all of the roguish and underhanded things going on with some of the brand recently. IMO the answer is NO, NADA, NEVER!

    Why should others be allowed to make money and gain exposure to affiliates when they are out to break contracts and apply retro-active terms? The PRESSURE will be aimed at this type of thing starting now.

    Each organization in this industry that has the opportunity to apply pressure to brands in the above category should do so unconditionally.

    It may not happen over night, but change is coming.
    Robin, don't you promote affutd/cpays on your site? From what I hear from friends who are affiliates, they still shave and cheat affiliates. And from what I remember reading, they once cheated you as well which took them what? Four years to fix?

    Edit: Hm, I kind of just singled you out here. Not my intention at all, please accept my apologiez if you in any way got insulted by my post.
    Last edited by Magenti; 3 September 2009 at 9:14 am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magenti View Post
    Robin, don't you promote affutd/cpays on your site? From what I hear from friends who are affiliates, they still shave and cheat affiliates. And from what I remember reading, they once cheated you as well which took them what? Four years to fix?

    Edit: Hm, I kind of just singled you out here. Not my intention at all, please accept my apologiez if you in any way got insulted by my post.
    Magenti, I'm not sure how this relates to conferences. Does cpays attends affiliate conferences?

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    Quote Originally Posted by mojo View Post
    Magenti, I'm not sure how this relates to conferences. Does cpays attends affiliate conferences?
    They attend every affiliate convention but go by the name Affiliated United nowadays. They are also Platinum sponsors of gpwa.org and will be at Bac.

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    Greek summed it up...

    Conferences are a cash cow, and the conference organizers don't seem to care about the ethics of the companies involved.

    I feel sorry for the clueless newbie affiliates that get duped by Cpays and new programs that will likely be out of business within a year, but what can you do... Affs really need to do their own homework by reading forums and T&Cs beforehand.

    But back to the main topic -- I would like to see the conference organizers publicly ban programs such as Cpays, Playshare, and Vegas Affiliates. I doubt it will happen, but I'd have great respect for whoever had the balls to do something like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Magenti View Post
    They attend every affiliate convention but go by the name Affiliated United nowadays. They are also Platinum sponsors of gpwa.org and will be at Bac.
    TY. Yes. They are also marked predatory at AGD. We need to add them to the list along with playshare.

    Vegas Affiliates as well since they applied retro terms July 1st and added bundling.

    The purpose here is to see how affiliates feel about these programs attending conferences. The reason they do, besides to party, is to recruit new affiliates or to bump up exposure with existing affiliates.

    I think it would be important for conference orgainzers to require that programs be in good standing with the affiliate community in order to display at conferences. I feel Alex for one is open to listen.

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    Thanks for summing up the way a lot of us feel about this particular situation mojo, engineer & greek!

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    Shaun O'neill is offline Former Affiliate Manager
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    Guys

    I am with you 100% regarding rouge companies in gaming but the ethics that are talked about on these threads do not really going any further than affiliates, which is very sad, I could think of maybe 10 - 20 companies that have changes rules screwed players, screwed affiliates and taken serious money from players and yet they can still advertise in indusrty pulications, websites attend any event advertise to players and nobody really really cares aside from affiliates.

    I am feelingf some pain right now, my poker is microgaming 2 sites have gone bust and some affiliates rufuse to work me due to that, which is sad my company is long standing and i am not going to work for dodgy company but still i am be placed in to the group.

    I just read one post that said Alex will listen and yes i am sure he will 100% but ethics and buiness are a very hard thing to do battle with.

    Think of it another way, if the dodgy programs do attend the events then go toe to toe in public and see how many people come to the stand........

    See you in Budda....

    Shaun

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    About 8 years ago I was ripped off by a company. I know this was extreme, but i got a booth close to them, told the conference organized I was setting up a service like the BBB (Better Businees Beurau) and then had a cur te girl give out a one page "my story" about the company in question. They got mad, complained and I was asked to stop. I had a contract and has paid, but some clause did prevent the girl form giving out flyers. the rest of the even, I just sat there and told every person who went to there booth to come sit with me for a coffee.
    When I was offered the money due from there people, I refused it. No hush money... Was too late that that point. I wanted them to get it. By morning of day 2, the even organizers gave me my money back and I had to leave.

    I still feel good about that. Childish? Maybe, but what else? Maybe picket the booth if you feel that strong about something....

    I guess this is going ot make some people hate me, But I believe complaints in forums is a nice start, but is not enough. If I believe in something, I do it 100%. Ok flame away!
    "CasinoJack"


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    Bravo CJ. Good for you! I actually like the picket idea. You never know, it may come to that.

    I've been acused of being childish myself lately. I don't really care. I was brought up that if something is not right, and you care, never give up the fight no matter what anyone says.

    Affiliates are rather unorganized but we are still growing and evolving. Programs need to ask themselves where they would like to be in a year from now in the eyes of affiliates. Problems today no longer can be ignored and expect to just go away like they have in the past. We are growing stronger.

    I am with you 100% regarding rouge companies in gaming but the ethics that are talked about on these threads do not really going any further than affiliates, which is very sad, I could think of maybe 10 - 20 companies that have changes rules screwed players, screwed affiliates and taken serious money from players and yet they can still advertise in indusrty pulications, websites attend any event advertise to players and nobody really really cares aside from affiliates.
    That is sad Shaun. Let's see what we can do about it. Not speaking up is not an option.

    I hope things work out for you. I understand it's devastating when upper management makes really really bad discisions. Good affiliate managers are put in a very awkward place.

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    Shaun O'neill is offline Former Affiliate Manager
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    Mojo

    Maybe i did not write it correctly i have no association with the room sthat have gone bust, i am just on the same poker network as them, and now we have just gone liv eand some affiliates have said they will never work with microgaming skins again which in my mind is crazy, it like saying if i loose money on teh stock market I will never buy another share again....

    Shaun


    Quote Originally Posted by mojo View Post
    Bravo CJ. Good for you! I actually like the picket idea. You never know, it may come to that.

    I've been acused of being childish myself lately. I don't really care. I was brought up that if something is not right, and you care, never give up the fight no matter what anyone says.

    Affiliates are rather unorganized but we are still growing and evolving. Programs need to ask themselves where they would like to be in a year from now in the eyes of affiliates. Problems today no longer can be ignored and expect to just go away like they have in the past. We are growing stronger.



    That is sad Shaun. Let's see what we can do about it. Not speaking up is not an option.

    I hope things work out for you. I understand it's devastating when upper management makes really really bad discisions. Good affiliate managers are put in a very awkward place.

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    Magenti, I'm not sure about or other affiliates but I would like to hear from Micheal as to why C-pays/Aff united is allowed to be a platnium sponsor here considering the consistant complaints from affiliates regarding the way they do business.

    Micheal, any comments would be appreciated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by casinobonusrus View Post
    Magenti, I'm not sure about or other affiliates but I would like to hear from Micheal as to why C-pays/Aff united is allowed to be a platnium sponsor here considering the consistant complaints from affiliates regarding the way they do business.

    Micheal, any comments would be appreciated.
    I suspect, scratch that, know it's about money and the, we have changed, we are now owned by william hill so we have changed speech.

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    This is not directed to anyone in particular, but IMO needs to be said.

    In all fainess this issue so new (calling out OP's that are not playing fair) that expecting folks to drop their associations/contracts/deals overnight is not being realistic. The goal is to bring awareness to the issue as well as other objectives not to start picking at each other.

    I do have some brand that are listed that I would rather NOT list, BUT that does not mean that I can break my contracts with them that were made prior to this unfolding and the fact that it's no one's business as long as they are not paying any of my bills.

    IMO it's not for anyone to judge others in this unregulated industry because there has been progress made and there will be more so we need to all figure out how to make it better not rock the boat and upset folks.

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    I agree with you on many fronts Robin and completly respect your opinion and under normal circumstances I would share your thoughts on that but with C-pays/William Hill I can't, as this is not a new issue with the way they treat affiliates, it is old and there is loads of posts pertaining to those issues, which seem to not got resolved or improved on.

    Based on that I feel organizations like GPWA should apply intense pressure for them to clean up thier act or remove them. Affiliates look to sites like the GPWA for advice regarding aff programs and therefore a responsibility is expected to ensure that all programs maintain the highest level of service, integrity and commitment to providing superior support to affiliates but also to act responsible in all aspects in those dealings. Time and time again with C-pays we do not see that whatsoever.

    From my experiene, and it seems many many more, this gruop hasn't acted in that manner, does not intend to make the improvements nor takes the appropiate action to ensure further short comings won't prevail.

    I would however, love to see those changes and would even, under the right circumstances be willing to give them another chance but I won't hold my breath.

    Either or Robin, I value your opinion always...

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    While I can certainly appreciate and agree with the concerns here about rogue forums here at the GPWA, I think that this thread would get rather confusing if we mix conferences and the GPWA policies together. I think we would end up having multiple conversations. I hope no one minds me saying so.

    There is some discussion on how to address some of these programs being here at the GPWA in the private section. It is an important topic with different views. I would like to see a thread on that myself in the public section.

    What I would like to see here, in this thread, is responses from conference organizers. Would they be willing to take the initiative, use their power, and make a statement to affiliate programs on behalf of affiliates?

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    Hi Guys,

    Sorry I am late in replying - Had no idea this thread was going until someone sent me the link.

    I would like to first say conferences aren't simply a cash cow - Of course they make a profit but the aim of our events and in fact the entire model from the very start was to put affiliates first, hence charging nothing to attend and putting on items like the free bar in the afternoon, the ASOP, and paying for parties when they aren't sponsored -

    When you take into consideration that we pay a fee to the venue for every person at the event for the food, coffee, venue, internet, electricity etc etc you will soon find the costs we have really are astronomical - I am not complaining just offering a little perspective on the accounts behind the event.

    With regards to rogue programs etc. the situation is indeed tricky, because for one with Budapest we have signed contracts and can't simply cancel these otherwise we will be in a whole world of trouble and as far as my knowledge goes these companies signed up when their t&c's were fine.

    Moving forward I am more than happy to listen to suggestions and I will be honest with you I am not massively up on track with the terms and conditions etc.

    What would make this much easier is if there was a group of people formed that are to a degree independent and have a complete understanding of the t&c's, programs ethics etc that can at least advice me or explain to me who we should not be letting exhibit and exactly why becuase I will have to go to my CEO still and tell him he is getting less revenue because........and this reason has to be good as he isn't in this sector and as a floated company his role is to deliver teh biggest profit possible.

    What I really don't want to do is simply listen to the loudest people in forums and stop programs that for the majority of people are decent and honest.

    What ever happens this is extremely sensistive and I have to ensure I handle this correctly and that if I tell a program they can't exhibit I need to know the exact facts as to why and also what they need to change in order to lift that ban so that its completely clear.

    I hope thats clear - Maybe Michael/J Todd we could sit down in Budapest and discuss this further because I guess you are in the same boat (kinda) with the forum and already may have some kind of tactics in place
    iGB Affiliate - The biggest magazine and events for affiliates in igaming

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    That is awesome to hear Alex. I'm sure that in time we all will be able to get a handle on this issue as long as we all work together.

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