I see Casino Rewards has not learned their lesson

[Puma]

After watching J.Todds video I decided to get a promotion together to mail out to my players for the new Casino Action. I looked for a regular deposit bonus but couldnt find one. What I did find is another crazy stupid promotion for free time and free mony to keep what you win bull crap.

Renee, do you not give our feedback to the casino? Im pretty sure most affiliates hate those promos because basicly they are full of ****. Here is what the casino advertises.

Signup Bonus Promotion

Play With $1250 FREE!

Casino Action rewards you for choosing the most prestigious online casino on the Internet with an incredible $1250 free bonus and 60 minutes to make as much money as you can!

But here are the terms.

1. You can claim your Free Play Bonus winnings as soon as you have made 100 or more bets and won $20 or more over the original $1250.
2. The maximum amount that can be won and transferred into your Real account for this promotion is $100. Any amount over this will be null and void.

Why give players an hour of free play and then provide them with a baby bonus? Why not just put up the bonus as it should be and let the player get on with playing. The faster he or she plays the faster he or she wins / loses and makes another deposit.

You have to trust me on this. Casino rewards has made a huge error in making a brand new casino with the same ol song and dance that we are all tired of.

You can't come into an affiliate forum like GPWA and help us preach for the good of the industry if you support such promos that mislead players and make affiliates look bad all the time. You can but its just not right in my opinion.

[Daera]

Hi Puma,

I could be mistaken but I could have sworn I seen an alternative 100% Match Bonus offer for Casino Action.

[Daera]

Declined Free Play and Selected $40 FREE Instant Bonus

1. $40 Instant Bonus will be credited upon the player's first deposit of $40 or more at the casino.
2. The $40 will be credited into the player CasinoRewards loyalty account and it will then be up to the player to transfer the bonus to their casino account.
3. Bonus should be fulfilled within 30 minutes but please allow 2 hours from initial deposit.
4. In selecting "Instant Bonus" as the preferred Sign Up bonus, the player automatically forfeits their right to start the Free Play Hour.
5. The casino is unable to reverse a player's selection to forfeit the Free Hour.

This looks like you can choose a match bonus for your welcome offer instead of the free spins promotion if you prefer that.

[Puma]

Thanks Lori, I am glad they have that offer for the match bonus. However this does not change the fact that the free money promotion ( which they are promoting more obviously ) is a bit misleading to players. A lot misleading IMO.

Yeah sure we can pass it up or play without the bonus but lets take a brand new online player and see what they think. The new player would surley feel the advertisement was false or in the very least misleading. That new player would probably think all promotions were like that and decide against gambling online. Which would hurt all of us in the long run.

Hit me up on msn Lori...

[Daera]

Hey Puma,

Did you ever email Renee and ask for a splash page and banners worded differently, the way you'd like it to be worded so that you didn't feel the promotion was misleading?

If you look here:

https://www.gpwa.org/forum/528484-post11.html

I seen that she offered to make you guys whatever you needed to promote the casinos and not feel you're misleading your players. That was pretty cool of her. Renee has always been great about getting any creatives we requested outside of the banners already provided.

I don't understand what the gripe is considering a match bonus is offered and you could have had a special splash page made just promoting that and banners to boot if you took her up on her offer.

[Puma]

I know Renee is super helpful. Perhaps the thread should lean into all casinos offering this promo and not just casino rewards. In fact the grand mondial group which I promote heavily does the same thing. The fact is however that the promotions should not be on the table at all. If renee made special pages for every affiliate the poor girl would have no time for herself.

I will stick by my guns on the way I feel about this promo and suggest that renee speak up on behalf of the affiliates and suggest they ditch any further promos like this.

[AK]

Pumacat, Do not take this personally.

CasinoRewards staff by far is one of the best out there. They are actually one of the few affiliate programs that don't steal some of your signups. These people have been around for a very long time and there reputation is bar none the best out there. I hope there is a solution to make You happy with them.

Thanks for reading and have a great day.

[GFPC]

Renee, do you not give our feedback to the casino? Im pretty sure most affiliates hate those promos because basicly they are full of ****. Here is what the casino advertises.

Hey Pumacat I know maybe your frustrated and I have always had respect for you, but I am not sure this type of language will get very far. Renee does a solid Job here and is helpful all the time. I think there are better ways to express discontent mate.

You can't come into an affiliate forum like GPWA and help us preach for the good of the industry if you support such promos that mislead players and make affiliates look bad all the time. You can but its just not right in my opinion.

Seems sort of like an attack mate. Everything ok?

Steve

[Puma]

I don't want this to turn into an attack on renee. Im always doing that. I want to make it clear that renee is not the problem here. But she does run the biggest group of microgaming affiliates on the planet and as tough of a job that is Im getting really frustrated by the lack of response to these promotions. They are by far the worst promtion ever created and are always worded wrong. I have seen my new player traffic go down alot since these promos came in. People dont search the search engine for free spins now do they.

Renee, do you not give our feedback to the casino? Im pretty sure most affiliates hate those promos because basicly they are full of ****. Here is what the casino advertises.

Yes theat was a slip as I see prior I used the word crap and i am sorry for that. Again I want to make it clear that this is not an attack on Renee but a clear stament that if our feedback had been takin into consideration casino rewards would not have launched yet another casino with this style of promo.

The reason Casino rewards is very important more than others is the amount of casinos listed. If casino rewards would make the changes then the rest may follow.

I hate lookinging all over a website to find alternatives to the free spin promo. Just advertise a proper bonus with clear terms and stop messing around with players minds already.

Sorry if this post is all over the place but I have tried to get my thoughts out there in a clear manner and wanted to clear up that this is a post about microgaming and casino rewards and not a direct attack on rennee who as everybody says is great at what she does.

[GFPC]

Cool PumaCat!!

Its all good!!! I hope things get worked out on that end. Im still a noob when it comes to casino stuff and slots, but as soon as I jump in maybe i will need some of your advice..

Have a beer on me mate!!

Hope to see you in July in Niagra Falls!!

Steve

[Renee]

Hey guys

I'm going to try to be as best describing as I can. I don't have much time since I'm actually not in the office but thought I'd check this to see what it was all about...

Hey Puma,

Did you ever email Renee and ask for a splash page and banners worded differently, the way you'd like it to be worded so that you didn't feel the promotion was misleading?

If you look here:

https://www.gpwa.org/forum/528484-post11.html

I seen that she offered to make you guys whatever you needed to promote the casinos and not feel you're misleading your players. That was pretty cool of her. Renee has always been great about getting any creatives we requested outside of the banners already provided.

I don't understand what the gripe is considering a match bonus is offered and you could have had a special splash page made just promoting that and banners to boot if you took her up on her offer.

Noone got back to me about this.. not a single affiliate.. I'm not going to make my guys design a splash page that is not going to be used since apart from having worked three times as hard to get this new casino out when I wanted them to for you guys, they are also short one person who no longer works with us so they have also had to pick up the slack for that person.

If you want it, I'll make it. But i'm not making my guys make something which has no interest and that noone is going to use.

I know Renee is super helpful. Perhaps the thread should lean into all casinos offering this promo and not just casino rewards. In fact the grand mondial group which I promote heavily does the same thing. The fact is however that the promotions should not be on the table at all. If renee made special pages for every affiliate the poor girl would have no time for herself.

This is my job and I don't have any problem doing it. If it's what you need to bring in more players and be more successful, then so be it. If it wasn't part of what we offer, I wouldn't offer it. If you need it, ask me and I'll get it done

I will stick by my guns on the way I feel about this promo and suggest that renee speak up on behalf of the affiliates and suggest they ditch any further promos like this.

Mate this has kinda gobsmacked me.. I have the loudest mouth in the office by far, and when it comes to affiliate stuff, believe me I open it. If it wasn't for me opening my mouth, there would be a lot of stuff that would be different about our program. I'm surprised you didn't notice my big mouth around the forum in other threads.

I pass on yours and everyone else's feedback EVERY SINGLE DAY. The issue here is not that the feedback is not passed along...

These promotions are designed based on past history. They are based on conversions as well as retention, player value, geographic locations, currencies.. etc etc.. There is a whole list of things the promotions department looks at for months before they decide to change a promotion or keep one, and what to change it to etc etc.. they don't just decide on the day, and all of these are judged over the WHOLE company, not just affiliates. If it were judged just on affiliate performance, there would be a lot more casinos with the free spins offers because as a whole, affiliates have better conversions on those promotions.. You may not see it here because not all affiliates post on forums... so they need to take all of that into consideration too..

I don't want this to turn into an attack on renee. Im always doing that. I want to make it clear that renee is not the problem here. But she does run the biggest group of microgaming affiliates on the planet and as tough of a job that is Im getting really frustrated by the lack of response to these promotions. They are by far the worst promtion ever created and are always worded wrong. I have seen my new player traffic go down alot since these promos came in. People dont search the search engine for free spins now do they.

You would be surprised how many people search the engines for free spins.

The split splash page is the best option for you guys if you would prefer to show the sign up bonus because if you were to just have a splash page showing only the deposit bonus, the player would then be mislead when they entered the casino, the free spins popped up, they took them, then realised there is no $40 for $40 bonus. So, by telling the player they can have one or the other, at least you let the player choose.. If you give them a choice, then they will choose which one they want. Easy as that.

The other option you have is to promote one of the other 100 casinos we have that don't offer free spins.. yeah I'm being sarcastic. We have 19 casinos now. Only 6 of them offer the free spins promotions, so there are another 13 casinos for you to promote which have great sign up bonuses that are not free spins.

Also, I'm glad you're not making this into an attack on me because I don't make the decisions around here concerning anything to do with the casinos (in fact I don't even run the affiliate program, Yaniv does), I have done everything you guys have asked and offered more, not to mention all the overtime I did to get the new casino marketing tools and stats out much earlier than planned for you guys, and if that's not good enough, well I guess the only option for me is to be shown the door, so to speak. Please don't do that - it's pissing down rain outside

If there are any more concerns, I will be available on email and msn first thing tomorrow morning... Now I am going to drown my sorrows since I just found out that the cost of the braces I need means I'm going to be broke for the rest of my life...

Donations can be made to paypal account renee@.... just kidding

Have a great morning/afternoon/evening..

Cheers

[GCG]

I think if it would not be for the free spins promotions I would not have had good results with Casino Rewards.

For Casino Action a $40 deposit can result in $100 free bonus which is a 250% match and with more free play credits there is bigger chance to win that free bonus. Players try to win that.

<O
I agree $1250 for the grasps is not really true, but if players believe all is free what is the catch huh?

<O
I am very happy with the free play stuff and I see players come back playing after months-years.

[giggles7p]

Puma i love ya, and i hope you get better luck!

Renee, well said, very nice post, well spoken and to the point! I agree 100% that if you do not want to promote free spins, then choose one of the other "100" casinos you have! LOL

Btw, i promote all of your casinos and get no results, but i feel it must be my marketing, not your casinos. Wish me better luck this year, or i will be very disappointed in myself and this business!

Cheers
giggles

[Renee]

Puma i love ya, and i hope you get better luck!

Renee, well said, very nice post, well spoken and to the point! I agree 100% that if you do not want to promote free spins, then choose one of the other "100" casinos you have! LOL

Btw, i promote all of your casinos and get no results, but i feel it must be my marketing, not your casinos. Wish me better luck this year, or i will be very disappointed in myself and this business!

Cheers
giggles

Let's have a chat and see what we can do to get you some players...

My email is Renee@RewardsAffiliates.com

Cheers

[Dominique]

I like the free spin promos, and my players like them, but I DO explain exactly how they work.

[livefree247]

Puma,

I find your complaint most interesting. if you don't like the free spin promotions then why are you advertising them on your site? you also sent out a mass email to all your members about these free spin promotions, for both Casino Reward's and Quarto Casino. so, I don't understand your complaint... when there are other options.

The other option you have is to promote one of the other casinos that don't offer free spins.. they have 19 casinos now. Only 6 of them offer the free spins promotions, so there are another 13 casinos for you to promote which have great sign up bonuses that are not free spins.

Renee has offered a special page for you to use, so why take her up on this offer.

[Puma]

Hi Rhonda, of course I sent out mailers for these promotions. I did try to find the alternative bonus on Casino actions page but was unable to. ( buy 40 get 40 ) and of course these promotions are on my site because in most cases that all the casino is offering. My ultimate point once again is not that there are casinos that offer different bonuses, my point is these types of promos are misleading and I shouldnt be forced to promote them while at the same time losing out on adding these casinos to my site.

You will have to trust me on this folks, people are tired of the free spin promo regardless if people do deposit sometimes. When people are ready to play for real and want a bonus they want nothing more than to skip the process of hitting the mouse for an hour in an attempt to earn a bonus. Most of the time the bonus you recieve is less than $100 so why not just advertise it as such.

Rhonda you should know by now that forum members ( mine or yours ) are picky and want things simplified. They have been saying for years that there are too many tricky casinos and too many pages of terms and conditions to follow. Why make it even harder on affiliates to search through these pages of terms so we can provide details of the free spin promo when we can simply make a post about a simple bonus with a playthrough?

Can I contact Renee to make me a special bonus? YES. Can I contact every single microgaing casino that offers these rediculous promotions ? NO. You have to admit that neither of us have the time to do that.

The point is this. People want it simple and with all the complaints about complicated bonuses, should microgaming including casino rewards created such a deceptive style of promo. My opinion sticks. Im forced to promote them but that doesnt mean I can raise a stink about them and try to change what I believe is an error in the system.

[Dominique]

Well, different strokes for different folks.

It all depends on your player demographics...

Mine generally like the challenge, the free play and the bonus is secondary.

But - different types of sites attract different types of players, I spend time digging up promos that will please my visitors in specific.

There are many different types of players, and all of us, knowingly or not, attract a certain type of player with the look and feel and the type of info provided on our sites.

I agree that promos need to match the general orientation of the specific site. That's why some programs do well on some sites, while other sites can't give them away.

What's important is that, whatever your demographics may be, you explain just what the T&Cs are, or at least call the players attention to the fact that they do need to read the T&Cs.

[Renee]

Hi Rhonda, of course I sent out mailers for these promotions. I did try to find the alternative bonus on Casino actions page but was unable to. ( buy 40 get 40 ) and of course these promotions are on my site because in most cases that all the casino is offering. My ultimate point once again is not that there are casinos that offer different bonuses, my point is these types of promos are misleading and I shouldnt be forced to promote them while at the same time losing out on adding these casinos to my site.

You will have to trust me on this folks, people are tired of the free spin promo regardless if people do deposit sometimes. When people are ready to play for real and want a bonus they want nothing more than to skip the process of hitting the mouse for an hour in an attempt to earn a bonus. Most of the time the bonus you recieve is less than $100 so why not just advertise it as such.

Rhonda you should know by now that forum members ( mine or yours ) are picky and want things simplified. They have been saying for years that there are too many tricky casinos and too many pages of terms and conditions to follow. Why make it even harder on affiliates to search through these pages of terms so we can provide details of the free spin promo when we can simply make a post about a simple bonus with a playthrough?

Can I contact Renee to make me a special bonus? YES. Can I contact every single microgaing casino that offers these rediculous promotions ? NO. You have to admit that neither of us have the time to do that.

The point is this. People want it simple and with all the complaints about complicated bonuses, should microgaming including casino rewards created such a deceptive style of promo. My opinion sticks. Im forced to promote them but that doesnt mean I can raise a stink about them and try to change what I believe is an error in the system.

Hey mate

I understand your point, however I added a section for sign up bonus information on the affiliate site for this exact reason about 4 months ago. You can find it here: http://www.rewardsaffiliates.com/mem...casino-sub.asp

The menu item also has a big red "NEW!" right next to it so you can't miss it. You should have noticed this when you went in to search for banners..?

As mentioned in my previous post, we have 19 casinos, 13 of them don't have a free spins promotion, so you are not forced to push the free spins promotions. There's a lot of choice there.

I also mentioned that if the sign up bonuses were decided on based ONLY on affiliate performance, more of our casinos would have them. Since they are based on the performance of the group as a whole including marketing campaigns and other things I mentioned in my last post (please have a read of it again if you missed that part), only 6 of our 19 casinos have the free spins bonuses.

Re your comment about people being tired of the free spins - the free spins casinos get more real player registrations than any other of our casinos. That is also taken into consideration when deciding on the bonus.

Also, if you're not able to contact your affiliate manager at "every single microgaing casino that offers these rediculous promotions," I would probably be reconsidering why you're working with them, because that's what an affiliate manager is there for, for you to contact when you need something to do with their program.

Well, different strokes for different folks.

It all depends on your player demographics...

Mine generally like the challenge, the free play and the bonus is secondary.

But - different types of sites attract different types of players, I spend time digging up promos that will please my visitors in specific.

There are many different types of players, and all of us, knowingly or not, attract a certain type of player with the look and feel and the type of info provided on our sites.

I agree that promos need to match the general orientation of the specific site. That's why some programs do well on some sites, while other sites can't give them away.

What's important is that, whatever your demographics may be, you explain just what the T&Cs are, or at least call the players attention to the fact that they do need to read the T&Cs.

If I had a dollar for every time I said this, I wouldn't need to work for the rest of my life.

Every site brings in different traffic. Some traffic love the free spins, some don't. That's just the way it is. If you had a site targeted to free spins promos, you would probably find that all your traffic loved the promotions because that's what they are looking for.

If you have a site targeted to no deposit bonuses, you will probably find that you won't get many depositing players because your traffic is only after free money.

etc etc

It's all about what you show the players who you are targeting..

Why don't you open a poll on your site and ask your visitors what type of bonus they were looking for when they got to your site that pops up on the homepage?

Give them the options of free spins, no deposit bonus, triple deposit bonus, % match bonus, high roller bonus etc.

At least that way you'll get a good idea of what they were looking for and you'll be able to adjust your marketing based on what your traffic wants.

Lastly, and I've said this before, if a brand doesn't convert for you, rotate it to something else. After all, you may be making a living from this, so you should push the brands that convert for you.