Sky Bet?!

[MannyBetting]

My concern as a smaller affiliate without the resources to fight this is that everyone will reach their own settlements, complete with confidentiality clauses. Of course, that will do little to deter other operators. From that POV I'm open to contributing towards a group claim if anything got organised.

I think this is a fair point. However small affiliates could simply use the small claims track, and therefore you won't need any sort of legal representation. If your claim is for £10k or less, this is by far your best option. I have only had to get representation because for me the numbers involved mean that I can't use small claims.

[Punters Lounge]

Yes, very messy for SkyBet.

Personally I have found the more cooks you have, the less gets done. I applaud any class actions and I am happy to help with info if I have anything useful to contribute. But I am not placing my legal action in the hands of others. I am only interested in the legal view of my solicitor and barrister, not a million and one affiliates who may not have the stomach for court fight when push comes to shove. I have heard too much **** on this forum. Separate court actions will really scare SkyBet, or it ought to, with every barrister coming at them from different angles of emphasis in different parts of the country. It will really stretch their legal team and mount up their costs. I think a class action is a great idea, but it is not for me.

Cool, you do what you have to do, but you'll be small fish alongside a class action with some big players in it and your settlement will be smaller. Separate court actions is what they want, what they don't want is a class action grabbing headlines and their shareprice nosediving. Trust me on this, I know what I'm talking about - in fact, go ask your lawyer what I just said, if he's any good he'll agree.

[baldidiot]

On a side note, does anyone know what's going on with quotas in September? I've just realised that even though we're going to be getting paid for this month if we cut off traffic we'll be dropped to 5%.

I'm assuming there's zero chance of them doing the decent thing and waiving the quota this month? Or do we need to send some accounts into the abyss to get the full amount owed.

[RacingJim]

Cool, you do what you have to do, but you'll be small fish alongside a class action with some big players in it and your settlement will be smaller. Separate court actions is what they want, what they don't want is a class action grabbing headlines and their shareprice nosediving. Trust me on this, I know what I'm talking about - in fact, go ask your lawyer what I just said, if he's any good he'll agree.

I'll be happy to contribute funds to a class action. The only issue for me is time and my individual case is not worth much money anyway, but happy to contribute if someone wants to take it and run with it. So what we really need is someone to step forward, someone maybe deeply affected by the Skybet screw, to step forward and say "I'll organise this stuff". That is where it always breaks down with us affiliates (and modern society), too individualistic.

[Punters Lounge]

I'll be happy to contribute funds to a class action. The only issue for me is time and my individual case is not worth much money anyway, but happy to contribute if someone wants to take it and run with it. So what we really need is someone to step forward, someone maybe deeply affected by the Skybet screw, to step forward and say "I'll organise this stuff". That is where it always breaks down with us affiliates (and modern society), too individualistic.

Just be patient is all I'd say to anyone. There's a very good lawyer looking into it, but I can't say any more than that at the moment. For the record annual for us is 6 figures, so we're not playing games but you have to take a deep breath and do things the right way.

[Punters Lounge]

On a side note, does anyone know what's going on with quotas in September? I've just realised that even though we're going to be getting paid for this month if we cut off traffic we'll be dropped to 5%.

I'm assuming there's zero chance of them doing the decent thing and waiving the quota this month? Or do we need to send some accounts into the abyss to get the full amount owed.

You'll have to swallow that probably, but it would get covered in any legal action. I'm not sending them ****, and you doing so may cause problems in any lawsuit. Cut them off now.

[justbookies]

Cool, you do what you have to do, but you'll be small fish alongside a class action with some big players in it and your settlement will be smaller. Separate court actions is what they want, what they don't want is a class action grabbing headlines and their shareprice nosediving. Trust me on this, I know what I'm talking about - in fact, go ask your lawyer what I just said, if he's any good he'll agree.

I have no confidence in any other affiliate getting anything off the ground. I don't know you from Adam, but I have read similar threads for years now and nobody has done anything. I have already seen a big affiliate on this thread wave the white flag - they always look for excuses why they cant win in court to justify why they are so gutless. When your anger subsides, will you have the bottle? I hope so. But I am not relying on it.

[Punters Lounge]

I have no confidence in any other affiliate getting anything off the ground. I don't know you from Adam, but I have read similar threads for years now and nobody has done anything. I have already seen a big affiliate on this thread wave the white flag - they always look for excuses why they cant win to justify why they are so gutless. When your anger subsides, will you have the bottle? I hope so. But I am not relying on it.

No you don't know me, if you did, you wouldn't have just said that. You're reacting with anger, which is the wrong move. You sound quite immature with your posts, this needs a cool, surgical approach and not let's fire 7 nukes at them. Do what you want to do.

[ds1999]

I'm another small affiliate affected by this. Been letting the dust settle for a couple of days whilst working out what to do. The quota was an issue for me, but as I have been able to achieve it most months it now makes this an even bigger headache. It's a substantial and reliable future chunk of my business wiped out over night.

I'm in touch with a couple of people for advice at this stage. I already have a few initial findings that are likely to align with the situation of others, but I will not post those details here. Moving forward, I'm willing to be part of any class action, or to take individual action as a co-ordinated member of a group. Whichever is deemed the best approach to firstly resolve this, then set a precedent against any others doing the same in future.

[colin3005]

A class action is all well and good if everyone is in the exact same position, but they aren't. Some people will have the contracts mentioned above that state any changes have to be in writing & signed, some don't. Some will have bespoke deals (like me) which means there will be slightly different terms to what others are on. That complicates things.
However, there are pluses and minuses for both views. To me there are 4 types of people in this

1. Those who have the funds to take this further using legal representation, and claims can't be allocated to the small claims. It will be costly, even if they (Bonne Terre Ltd/Sky Gaming/Hestview - whoever they are calling themselves this week) lose, they will most certainly appeal, and that means a not cheap barrister in the high court.
2. Those who have enough legal knowledge to take action themselves. But be warned it won't be easy.
3. Those who want to do something but don't have the funds, in which case joining with others is a good idea.
4. Those who's earning are so small it isn't worth doing anything.

There is no reason for anyone who actually gets to a courtroom to take a confidentiality clause. A court is extremely unlikely to order one as part of a judgement, and the only way its likely to come into play is if a settlement is done before a trial. In that case it wouldn't be precedent and no one else could use it anyway. If it does go to trial, then its a matter of public record, and it 'could' be used in future claims. I would certainly hope anyone who won an action would share the details with others, I would.

A class action, if it fails, means everyone loses in one fell swoop, but if succeeds then everyone wins, and would be used as a precedent for future cases, and don't forget you have 6 years to claim. Individual claims, you could have 5 lose and 5 win, and they 'can' be used in other cases, but don't have to be as each case will be slightly different.

Really it just depends on your point of view which way people go, but whichever way it won't be a simple case (which does not mean it won't succeed!)

[MannyBetting]

We're all on the same side here folks. And you all actually have good points.

RacingJim is right, if a class action is going to happen it does need someone to step forward and say I am going to organize this, and to actually follow through with it.

justbookies is right, this has happened plenty of times before and nothing has ever been done. It's easy to talk and make threats on a forum. Most people will never have the guts to follow through in real life. Based on this his skepticism is entirely justified.

Punters Lounge is right, we don't know each other. Some people aren't just full of **** and actually do what they say they'll do. If this is you saying that you want to take the lead, and that maybe the process is already underway, then I and many others I am sure will want to listen to what you have to say. If my solicitor says that is the best option for me, I'll join in a heartbeat and support it 100%.

In the absence of that, I'll take action on my own, so one way or the other I am somebody who is going to do something about this.

[justbookies]

No you don't know me, if you did, you wouldn't have just said that. You're reacting with anger, which is the wrong move. You sound quite immature with your posts, this needs a cool, surgical approach and not let's fire 7 nukes at them. Do what you want to do.

Read the last SkyBet thread, when they increased the quota. Everyone was collecting money for court action - it makes pathetic reading. By the way, you wont get people to join your class action by insulting and bullying them.

[Punters Lounge]

A class action is all well and good if everyone is in the exact same position, but they aren't. Some people will have the contracts mentioned above that state any changes have to be in writing & signed, some don't. Some will have bespoke deals (like me) which means there will be slightly different terms to what others are on. That complicates things.
However, there are pluses and minuses for both views. To me there are 4 types of people in this

1. Those who have the funds to take this further using legal representation, and claims can't be allocated to the small claims. It will be costly, even if they lose, they will most certainly appeal, and that means a not cheap barrister in the high court.
2. Those who have enough legal knowledge to take action themselves. But be warned it won't be easy.
3. Those who want to do something but don't have the funds, in which case joining with others is a good idea.
4. Those who's earning are so small it isn't worth doing anything.

There is no reason for anyone who actually gets to a courtroom to take a confidentiality clause. A court is extremely unlikely to order one as part of a judgement, and the only way its likely to come into play is if a settlement is done before a trail. In that case it wouldn't be precedent and no one else could use it anyway. If it does go to trial, then its a matter of public record, and it 'could' be used in future claims. I would certainly hope anyone who won an action would share the details with others, I would.

A class action, if it fails, means everyone loses in one fell swoop, but if succeeds then everyone wins, and would be used as a precedent for future cases, and don't forget you have 6 years to claim. Individual claims, you could have 5 lose and 5 win, and they 'can' be used in other cases, but don't have to be as each case will be slightly different.

Really it just depends on your point of view which way people go, but whichever way it won't be a simple case (which does not mean it won't succeed!)

It's a good point and may result in 2 class actions, pre 2010 and post 2010, but individual cases is a big no for the reasons you state, they can be cited in court as to why any case should be dismissed.

[Punters Lounge]

@justbookies - The quotas was a totally different scenario, and one that other bookmakers have also introduced.

Insulting and bullying - what on earth are you taking about? There's one ego here and it's yours. I don't give a **** if you're in the class action or not, plenty will be if it's viable.

My name's Paul Ross, most people know me and they know I don't lie down and take **** from any bookmaker. So there you go, you know me now.

[justbookies]

@justbookies - The quotas was a totally different scenario, and one that other bookmakers have also introduced.

Insulting and bullying - what on earth are you taking about? There's one ego here and it's yours. I don't give a **** if you're in the class action or not, plenty will be if it's viable.

My name's Paul Ross, most people know me and they know I don't lie down and take **** from any bookmaker. So there you go, you know me now.

I'll sing your praises when you take them to court. So far, sounds like the same old bravado we get every time.

[Punters Lounge]

We're all on the same side here folks. And you all actually have good points.

RacingJim is right, if a class action is going to happen it does need someone to step forward and say I am going to organize this, and to actually follow through with it.

justbookies is right, this has happened plenty of times before and nothing has ever been done. It's easy to talk and make threats on a forum. Most people will never have the guts to follow through in real life. Based on this his skepticism is entirely justified.

Punters Lounge is right, we don't know each other. Some people aren't just full of **** and actually do what they say they'll do. If this is you saying that you want to take the lead, and that maybe the process is already underway, then I and many others I am sure will want to listen to what you have to say. If my solicitor says that is the best option for me, I'll join in a heartbeat and support it 100%.

In the absence of that, I'll take action on my own, so one way or the other I am somebody who is going to do something about this.

Indeed we are, and it does need someone to take the lead. Just be patient because a top lawyer is looking into it. I think the case is more than viable, but my legal experience is limited. Time to be patient and wait on the lawyers legal opinion.

[Punters Lounge]

@justbookies - I think you'll find that's small affiliates with angry posts regarding the quotas thread, and I've no interest in you singing my praises, but perhaps we'll have a beer one day.

Oh little nudge for you - your ladbrokes review where you've blacklisted them, you still have a banner and other links linking to them. I blacklisted 10bet recently and just redirected them to Bet365.

[freebetsfreetips]

On a side note, does anyone know what's going on with quotas in September? I've just realised that even though we're going to be getting paid for this month if we cut off traffic we'll be dropped to 5%.

I'm assuming there's zero chance of them doing the decent thing and waiving the quota this month? Or do we need to send some accounts into the abyss to get the full amount owed.

Annoyingly we've just removed everything, then checked the stats to see some nice chap has just done £13k. Part of me, a large part, hopes he wins £200k back before the end of the month!

[justbookies]

I think you'll find that's small affiliates with angry posts regarding the quotas thread, and I've no interest in you singing my praises, but perhaps we'll have a beer one day.

Oh little nudge for you - your ladbrokes review where you've blacklisted them, you still have a banner and other links linking to them. I blacklisted 10bet recently and just redirected them to Bet365.

The jury is out for Ladbrokes with me. I have a deal with them and they 'sorted me out' when they were shafting everyone, but Ladbrokes Coral Group has become so dishonest I am unsure whether to continue with them or not despite the deal. I don't trust their stats or how they will behave in future. I have thousands of players with them, but may decide to just give them up. Unsure at moment. Hence the mixed messages for both reviews. I have stopped sending traffic just for now while I work out if I can keep working with them.

If you want to compare annual revenues then you may find you are an even smaller affiliate than me. But this isn't a pissing up the wall contest. Maybe keep your ego and anger in check. If you edit out the macho **** and insults on your posts, we are on the same side and I agree with what you are saying. Just choosing to take a different route, but I hope we can all help each other.

[-Shay-]

My suggestion is that everyone proceed in talking to their own legal reps. Lawsuits can be combined down the road into a single class at a later date - which takes time.

By consulting your own legal rep now, you're at least taking your anger and momentum and going in the right direction - one that we all are individually in control of.