When negative revenue in statistics

[BBCasinos]

Hi you all,
i have a short question.
Is underneath situation common?

In august one player won 5k at one of my aff programs
The maximum withdraw amount is €500 per week, this player is now withdrawing €500 each week.
Every week I have €500 negative now, that means 10 weeks of negative balance/ revenue.

But in my opinion the full €5.000 negative supposed to be in august (the moment the player won) and not when a player makes a withdraw

Am i wrong or are there more brands how work like this? If i look at other brands i work with this is not the case

Please let me know if this is normal or not?

Greetings Dave

[Mikew]

First of, can u share what is this casino with max withdraw 500 per week? This has to be very inconvenient for players, which could led to a poor retention IMO.

Back to your question. I think you will be in minus every time the player request a withdraw but not of 500. It should be a percentage of your rev-share in minus, not the full amount.
If you are on a 50% revshare, then you should see -250€ for a withdraw of 500. You should contact your AM for more details

[Triple7]

It depends what they calculate. Some casinos calculate with account balance, others calculate with real made payouts. You'd best ask them how they calculate and check if they're consequent in that. Alternative is that you drop them as long as you are carrying a sort of negative carryover. Then they receive no traffic at all and it's up to them to solve this issue.

€ 500 a week is a crap limit. I guess this is some kind of under-funded 500 bucks white label crap. To be very honest, if you send traffic to casinos with this kind of casinos, you can expect this sort of things. They simply do not have the money to run a proper casino with fair and competitive terms. 10 weeks waiting for a win of € 5.000, while for sure players are able to deposit € 5.000 at once and play with high stakes...

[Miles_FTA]

This is an Opinion Only but i think the reason why they cant deduct the full 5000 is becuase they are leaving the balance that has not been paid out in the player account to entice the palyer to play it.

So they are only dedcuting what is actualy paid to the player as maybe say they have paid 2000 and left 3000 in the players account then the player could potentialy come back and play that 3000 back to the casino make sense ?

So they are only taking off what has actualy been paid to the player

[Scampi]

what a crap casino, it's not fair on your players to promote crap like this.

[BBCasinos]

Back to your question. I think you will be in minus every time the player request a withdraw but not of 500. It should be a percentage of your rev-share in minus, not the full amount.
If you are on a 50% revshare, then you should see -250€ for a withdraw of 500. You should contact your AM for more details

I understand this. I mentioned the negative Net Gaming result

[BBCasinos]

Thanks for all the replies for now. Accept the €500 weekly limit this way of working is known in the business. I wasn't sure of that. Thanks to the first replies I am now.
In my opinion it is still a bit strange and was the first time I saw it.
Now i have to wait till the last €500 is paid before my other players can give me a possitive balance again

[Triple7]

It happens, some casinos do have such withdrawal limits, but it's still crap in my opinion to pay out just € 500 a week. People with the lack of funding to payout more than this, shouldn't be running an online casino.

[agsgroup]

This is something I didn't consider much before tbh so thanks for sharing. I hope i'm not promoting the same casino

[LukeC]

That's not normal at all. I'm pretty sure that once the balance is cleared if the player deposits €5000, you aren't going to be positive revenue of €5000 straight away before the customer actually loses the money.

[BBCasinos]

That's not normal at all. I'm pretty sure that once the balance is cleared if the player deposits €5000, you aren't going to be positive revenue of €5000 straight away before the customer actually loses the money.

Yeah in my opinion I had to have a negative net gaming of €5.000 in august (because that month the money was won).
And as the casino has no negative carry i had to go on 0,00 again in september.
Despite that the player has still money in his account...

All the smaller new players i bring in now are totally useless because i have 10 weeks negative balance

[allfreechips]

Did this casino deduct 5000 from your earnings the month it happened?

[Triple7]

That's not normal at all. I'm pretty sure that once the balance is cleared if the player deposits €5000, you aren't going to be positive revenue of €5000 straight away before the customer actually loses the money.

That depends really on how their software is working. I got programs where deposits are put as a 'plus' immediately and a 'min' just appears when it's cashed out. In that case I should get revenue if a player deposits, do not lose, but neither do not cash out. On the other hand, if I player wins € 50.000 and for whatever reason he cashes out € 10.000 a month, I am screwed for 5 months for this program.

I am not saying that is the most perfect way software should work, but it exists. More than 1 variant do exist. Some calculate on account balance, like for example eGASS. Also Netrefer does that. In that case a - € 50.000 do appear as negative revenue and will be cleared at the end of the month. No matter how the player is cashing out this win. Moreover, if he's losing it next month, it will appear as a plus in your account.

Without knowing which program it's about and what software they're using, it's impossible to say something about it. Well, anything more than the conclusion that this casino is for sure one of the crappiest around. I think it's not worth sending your traffic to places where they do not pay out more than € 500 a week.

[TheGooner]

That depends really on how their software is working. I got programs where deposits are put as a 'plus' immediately and a 'min' just appears when it's cashed out.

Indeed - I have a program that does this too. We are paid a percentage of net cash in (deposits - withdrawals).
Wins and losses don't appear in reporting and do not matter for affiliates.

As an aside - there is another popular thread on the forum railing about miscellaneous charges and unscrupulous affiliate programs ... well this payment calculation puts it all out in the open - you get a straight share of net cash.

So while this seems strange and unusual, it is a perfectly valid way to run an operation and they are only ever paying out when cash flow is positive, and perhaps it is the future of the business?

[Sherlock]

So while this seems strange and unusual, it is a perfectly valid way to run an operation and they are only ever paying out when cash flow is positive, and perhaps it is the future of the business?

The future of the business is from bad to worse. I would not have a problem with this setup, it is in big numbers the same as revenue share. More transparent for us (so not many programs will be happy for that).

But there are problems:
- scams (friend of affiliate deposits big amount, affiliate cashes it and then even freidn cashes it out => every start of partnership and then first whale is suspicious)
- Problem to calculate the right number (incetivised offers vs normal traffic; different geos have different revenue distribution over time because of the different plays and habits etc).

This is classic case of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Market_for_Lemons where only the bad actors (affiliate partners) or the actors with lower value remain at the market.

It is still a better setup than rev. share from deposits only. I remember at least one casino 10+ yrs ago offered it.

[BBCasinos]

Did this casino deduct 5000 from your earnings the month it happened?

Nope, Every month only the €2.000 withdrawal (4x €500)

[Miles_FTA]

Thanks for all the replies for now. Accept the €500 weekly limit this way of working is known in the business. I wasn't sure of that. Thanks to the first replies I am now.
In my opinion it is still a bit strange and was the first time I saw it.
Now i have to wait till the last €500 is paid before my other players can give me a possitive balance again

As i say if they have left a balance in the players account and he plays it then you wont need to wait for the entore 5 K to be paid out as some of that would be played back by the player

[IGT Partners]

Yeah in my opinion I had to have a negative net gaming of €5.000 in august (because that month the money was won).
And as the casino has no negative carry i had to go on 0,00 again in september.
Despite that the player has still money in his account...

All the smaller new players i bring in now are totally useless because i have 10 weeks negative balance

This is exactly how it should work (or at least how it works in our affiliate program):
- You have the negative NET REVENUE of -5,000€ in August.
- in case of "no negative carry over" deal, August you take 0€ commissions.
- in case of "no negative carry over" deal, September everything will be reset and start earning commissions in case of positive NET REVENUE

Everything depends on the affiliate software used and the deal you have with your AM.

[Allegation]

In august one player won 5k at one of my aff programs
The maximum withdraw amount is €500 per week, this player is now withdrawing €500 each week.
Every week I have €500 negative now from casino, that means 10 weeks of negative balance/ revenue.
But in my opinion the full €5.000 negative supposed to be in august (the moment the player won) and not when a player makes a withdraw
Am i wrong or are there more brands how work like this? If i look at other brands i work with this is not the case
Please let me know if this is normal or not?
Greetings Dave

This sounds very strange to me. The revenue in most cases are calculated on the REVENUE and not the WITHDRAWN amount. So Yes it sounds strange. A question, have you talked to the casino? What are they saying? Would very much like to know that!

[Soplica]

Same opinion here. Never heard about withdrawn calculations on revshare...