Casino Rewards - Retroactive terms & wagering requirements

[Schankwart]

After Casino Rewards have been unable to base their retroactive addition of wagering requirements for previously lost bonuses on any terms (LINK), they just altered their terms & conditions to retroactively apply the missing paragraph. (xxx.vegasslotcasino.com/help/termsconditions.asp)

This is a screenshot of their terms by the time I deposited and played:



Term 15 (and 14) have now been retroactively added:



This thread will be my last amicable request to correct the randomly applied wagering requirements without any retroactive changes. I have copies of all terms and this situation will not be tolerated for much longer.

I also noticed that a second term was added now, published under "Bonus Account Terms and Conditions - 15". This also was not published by the time I made my deposit, received the bonus and played. In case they continue to ignore and alter their own terms, they are urging me to escalate this issue and involve third parties.

I was trying get an impression of how Casino Rewards is performing these days and now this......

[mojo]

I don't think it's unreasonable to remove a bonus if there is no activity in 45 days. It is expired.

I don't think it's unreasonable to deposit between bonuses.

Please clarify.

[Schankwart]

Term 15. was applied retroactively. You can read this in the thread I was linking to in my initial post.

I mentioned term 14. as well, as it has also been added after I deposited and played already.

[aksana]

really, I have checked Yahoo cache of this page with T&C http://www.vegasslotcasino.com/help/termsconditions.asp, and yes they have added 14 and 15 terms recently after the 20th of March, because there are no these terms in the cached page - Yahoo Cache

So, if you receive your bonus and make your deposit before these changes, then the old T&Cs should be applied.

[Renee]

General Promotion Terms and Conditions
4.In the interest of avoiding any confusion related to promotions and any winnings transferred to the Real account, the Player agrees to commit to the following wagering requirements. These include:
ii.Bonus amounts credited to a Player's bonus account are subject to 30 times play-through before they may be cashed in.

As I have explained already, you did not satisfy the wagering requirements of the bonuses you received, so the WR carried over. The term is in the above quote.

Term 15 was added to clarify what was already policy.

Schankwart - perhaps you would be better playing elsewhere. Or perhaps you could just make a deposit in between taking the bonuses..

Your call. Either way, this was not applied retroactively - it has always been policy, just needed further clarification.

Cheers

[Caruso]

I don't think it's unreasonable to remove a bonus if there is no activity in 45 days. It is expired.

I don't think it's unreasonable to deposit between bonuses.

Please clarify.

Clarification: it appears that the additional terms were applied retrospectively (where did we ever get that wretched word "retroactive"? ), if I understand right.

If this is the case, then Shanky, file a complaint with the Kahnawake lady whose name currently escapes me, but who I met two years ago in London and who (I think) won't whitewash any casino fudgery.

[Renee]

When I requested this clarification term be put in the T&Cs, I was very thorough in checking other casinos T&Cs to see if they clarify this point too, as it was pointed out in another post that the norm in the industry is that when a bonus reaches 0 the WR are reset to 0.

I was not able to find it in ANY T&Cs that I looked at.

So this term is ASSUMED at their groups too. Just because another group has this policy, it does not mean all groups have this policy. Each casino has it's own terms. It cannot be assumed that terms from one casino (that belongs to another group) can be applied to another casino.

There is no term in ours or their terms that state that when a bonus reaches 0 the WR are reset to 0. So you are assuming that this is the case.

As I said, the new term has been inserted for CLARIFICATION of an already existing term, which is that all bonuses have WR of 30x.

The KGC lady's name is Mikki.

[Caruso]

Oh, that's never going to wash. Once a deposit and bonus are gone, if you want to apply wagering requirements to those things which are no longer extant, you need to say as much. Justifying the retrospective application of this rule as a rather magnanimous "clarification of what everyone already knows" is a road to nowhere. You will never be able to float that one. I've bust many a bonus with no wagering requirements coming back to haunt me, as has every other player out there who's ever lost a deposit and bonus. This is a Casino Rewards invention. It's not industry standard in any way. Quite the reverse. If you've now added the requirement, then apply it from when it was added (not "clarified"), and ensure the wording is absolutely clear.

Shanky, as Renee helpfully clarifies, have a word with Mikki if CR is really willing to go into battle over it.

[Renee]

Fair enough Caruso. I'm not here to argue with you. Just giving you an explanation on why the term was added.

I still don't understand why the player plays at our casinos. He has known that this is the case for years and this complaint comes up every time.

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me..

Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity.

Anyway I'll leave it with you guys.

[GCG]

As I said, the new term has been inserted for CLARIFICATION of an already existing term, which is that all bonuses have WR of 30x.

If it was already in the T&C's than that is a tough one IMO.

I think it is not unfair to ask for a deposit in between and yes bonuses expire at other sites too.

If not happy with them play somewhere else, I see no reason to stick with them there are a lot of other casinos you can choose.

[Caruso]

If it was already in the T&C's than that is a tough one IMO.

I think it is not unfair to ask for a deposit in between and yes bonuses expire at other sites too.

If not happy with them play somewhere else, I see no reason to stick with them there are a lot of other casinos you can choose.

It wasn't; that wagering requirements from lost bonuses + deposits carry over was added subsequently, as you can see from the above screenshots.

[Schankwart]

ii.Bonus amounts credited to a Player's bonus account are subject to 30 times play-through before they may be cashed in.

Renee, this term clearly does not define that wagering requirements are carried over for bonuses that were already lost. This has never been mentioned, described or "clarified" in any of your terms. Your company simply invented term 15. and now tries to apply it retroactively.

Furthermore, it is common practice and plain logic that wagering requirements are reset when a bonus is lost to $0, as Caruso points out too. Since the past century I have not been aware of any other company that "assumes" your new term either.

I am also unsure why you do not mention that I deposit(s) at Casino Rewards before receiving the $200 bonus. However, this does not affect this case as the previous bonus had already been lost in full.

He has known that this is the case for years and this complaint comes up every time.

The situation with additional wagering requirements only occurred when I decided to play at Casino Rewards again last year, after your colleagues resolved an entirely different issue (blocked Comp Points). At this time I believed and hoped that your group would eventually run a straight and honest business. It is untrue that I already contacted your company about this before at any time. This term/ situation is new at Casino Rewards and never happened before either.

I also need to emphasize that Casino Rewards confiscated $410 of my real money balance and converted it into bonus money without providing any terms.

If it was already in the T&C's than that is a tough one IMO.

Please let me know where this term or anything similar can be found in the old T&C's?

bonuses expire at other sites too.

This term is up to the casino. However, please note that it was only added after I deposited and played already.

---

Casino Rewards, there is no doubt that you are retroactively applying terms. The outcome of this is up to you.

[slotplayer]

Renee,

Does CR use the clearplay bonus system?

[Renee]

Schankwart you have made a deposit at a different casino, not the casino where you claimed the bonus. Each casino is a separate entity apart from the fact that you can claim casino rewards points into any casino regardless of where you earn them. So making a deposit in another casino is irrelevant to this casino account.

Since we took over the mini vegas group, you have never made a deposit on vegas slot casino, only claimed bonuses to it.

Show me in another groups T&Cs where it says that the WR will be reset to 0 if the bonus is lost in its entirety? I could not find any, so you are assuming this is the case at all casinos. You're saying that since it's not in our T&Cs, but our policy, it's not applicable to you, but even though the opposite is not in another groups T&Cs and it's policy there, it's fine. This is why groups have to continually add more and more T&Cs, because players are always trying to find loopholes.

The 410 was not CONFISCATED. When it was won it went into bonus money automatically because you did not clear the wagering requirements of the previous bonus and you did not make a deposit at vegas slot casino before you took the most recent bonus. You're able to withdraw everything that is currently in your cash balance on that account and you will then forfeit your bonus balance.

And I think one must ask the question why you make a deposit in an account then claim the bonus into a different account where you are not depositing..

You are always having issues with bonuses with our group. Again I ask, why do you still play at Casino Rewards?

Regarding the term - it was added to clarify the term I posted previously. As I said, this term does not exist in ANY T&Cs that I can find at any other group, so it is assumed (until this is now clarified) that our casino works in the same way the others work.

[mojo]

Show me in another groups T&Cs where it says that the WR will be reset to 0 if the bonus is lost in its entirety?

Anywhere I play the bonus is reset to zero. If I am playing rtg and I have 2 cents left I will play it in a stupid way to get rid of it before I deposit.

I feel the bonus should be zero'd out and not carried over. But serously, if you are not depositing, then screw that.

You must be a deposter! Not garnering the system that makes it harder for everyone.

But Renee, to carry over bonuses on a zero balance account isn't the answer. I would be upset too.

Schankwart, have you ever done a deposit with no bonus?

Caruso, I'm with you usually but not in this case. I have seen much to many complaints from Schankwart over and over again. Renee is right, play somewhere else.

Finally, I miss playing micro.

[Renee]

Show me in another groups T&Cs where it says that the WR will be reset to 0 if the bonus is lost in its entirety?

Anywhere I play the bonus is reset to zero. If I am playing rtg and I have 2 cents left I will play it in a stupid way to get rid of it before I deposit.

It's still not in their terms that this is the case and so everyone is assuming this is the case at all casinos.

You also said you'd get rid of the 2c left of bonus before you deposit so that the WR aren't carried over. I assume you do this because then if you win, the WR from the old bonus wont make it harder for you to cash out. Well, when the balance is 0 and a deposit is made, the WR are reset to 0. They are not still carried over. This is the point I'm trying to make.

I feel the bonus should be zero'd out and not carried over. But serously, if you are not depositing, then screw that.

You must be a deposter! Not garnering the system that makes it harder for everyone.

Again, if he made a deposit, the WR would have been reset to 0.

The point here is that he has not made a deposit on this account, which is why the wagering keeps carrying over. My guess is so that if he wins, his own money is not tied up in the account. He is trying to use the bonuses to win money and get it out of the casino without having to risk any of his personal funds, which is the entire reason our bonus system performs this way.

Caruso, I'm with you usually but not in this case. I have seen much to many complaints from Schankwart over and over again. Renee is right, play somewhere else.

If you search the name there are bonus complaints all over the place. And it's always the casino's fault

Finally, I miss playing micro.

We miss you too!

[mojo]

You also said you'd get rid of the 2c left of bonus before you deposit so that the WR aren't carried over. I assume you do this because then if you win, the WR from the old bonus wont make it harder for you to cash out. Well, when the balance is 0 and a deposit is made, the WR are reset to 0. They are not still carried over. This is the point I'm trying to make.

So Renee, are you saying that that playing down to zero will cancel out that rule?

[Renee]

I'm saying that if the balance is 0 and a deposit is made, the WR do not carry over, i.e. they are reset to 0. The only reason the WR are carried over is because he never makes a deposit in between taking each bonus. He has never made a deposit on this account.

[mojo]

I'm saying that if the balance is 0 and a deposit is made, the WR do not carry over, i.e. they are reset to 0. The only reason the WR are carried over is because he never makes a deposit in between taking each bonus. He has never made a deposit on this account.

That is what I wanted to know. Thank you for clarifying that.

If I am depositing and I zero'd out my account and deposited again I would not be happy to see carry over bonus requirments.

That would NEVER happen at Rewards. That is not how they do business.

There needs to be a deposit. At least ONE.

Agreed?

[Renee]

This is what I'm trying to say

Anyway I will leave it at that.
If the player goes to KGC, I'm sure we will hear from them.