Casino Rewards - Retroactive terms & wagering requirements

[Caruso]

I wanted to clarify how the depositing into one account and claiming bonus into the other is a loophole.

If the player deposited and claimed the bonus into the SAME account, then withdrew their original deposit, they would also forfeit the bonus. Whereas this way they can withdraw their deposit and the bonus stays, so they are able to play with a bonus without really ever depositing.

Hope that is clearer.

So what is the issue?

1) The player had carried-over wagering from another bonus that he's refusing to complete.

Or

2) He redeemed the bonus into a different account.

If 1), then the terms were not updated when he played.

If 2), well, if the casino allows it it's good to go.

I've now no idea which "fault" the casino is claiming.

[TheCPA]

I totally agree it is a bit odd. I suspect the thinking is that a player can essentially cross market themselves to other casinos within the group to try them out.

Naturally, CR is hoping they find one they really like, and deposit real $$ into them.

[Caruso]

Since it's only one player, he's cross-marketing himself with no additional benefits to the other casinos. He's not bringing in additional bankrolls, he's dividing one bankroll around.

The casino, on the other hand, appears to be allowing bonus freerolls in putting bonuses into accounts where the deposit is not, and, I assume, allowing the deposit to be withdrawn at any time, with no requirement to tie it to the bonus. Deposit into account one, claim bonus into account two, withdraw deposit from account one, play bonus in account two. Now you're freerolling on what effectively amounts to a non-deposit bonus.

This isn't a loophole, it's boneheaded. They're more than welcome to be boneheaded, but don't blame the players for it. Suggestions:

1) Put bonuses on top of the deposits that generate them the way all other casinos have done for the past fifteen years (duuuuuh).

2) Pay the player, who did nothing wrong.

and on a sidenote:

3) Can the silly "wagering requirements from lost bonuses carry over" nonsense.

[TheCPA]

3) Can the silly "wagering requirements from lost bonuses carry over" nonsense.

Well, I don't think that notion is entirely nonsense.

As I thought I understood it, CR will ZERO out bonus requirements on accounts where there has never been a real money deposit, AFTER a real deposit is made.

I don't think it's unfair to carryover over the free money wagering requirements on accounts that have never seen any real money deposited. Naturally though, if you meet the ENTIRETY of those free money carryovers, then what ever is left should be real, and withdrawable. Unless there is a maximum on free money cash outs, which is sometimes the case also.

Of course, this is where all the confusion comes in. lol

[TheCPA]

Thinking more about this, it seems to me that if they are going to allow a deposit at Casino A, and let them take the bonus money at Casino B, then the wagering requirements to cash out should probably be based on the combined total of both casinos to be fair to both sides.

Of course that would probably be an accounting nightmare! lol

[joeyl]

Carrying over of unmet bonus requirements after zeroing out, to another bonus later, is a Virtual Casino move of old, that I thought died with the old king.

Swip swapping deposit and bonuses across accounts, along with old requirements and new, unless a deposit is made whether near or far, is beyond confusing for my little head.

[Schankwart]

I'm just repeating myself over and over again.

Yes, unfortunately you are indeed only repeating yourself. I am not surprised about this anymore as it is impossible to deny that term 15 was retroactively added and that none of the casino terms can be legally applied to carry over wagering requirements.

This thread as well as my initial posts about this situation openly displays that Casino Rewards...

• First believe that a term to stipulate the carryover of lost bonuses "does not need to be in the terms and conditions because it is similar to if you had .01 cents in bonus left on your account."
• Base decisions on assumptions.
• Decide to invent new terms and apply them retroactively.
• Claim that a "loophole" has been used when a player complains about the application of a term that never existed.
• Offer deposit bonuses but claim that no deposit was made after the purchase had been played and risked in full.
• Use a bonus system across their entire group of casinos that is contradictory with their terms & conditions.
• Refuse to fairly correct a situation when almost all posters believe that C.R. did not adhere to its own terms and that they should honor the original terms.

This brings me to the conclusion that...

• I am urged to amplify this matter and involve third parties to eventually achieve a fair solution.
• Other players will be advised to have a good gaming experience elsewhere.
• Casino Rewards, the largest network of Microgaming casinos should be avoided.

[Renee]

I'm making one last comment, then I'm done with this.

If the player files a complaint with the KGC, Mikki will contact the relevant person in our company (not me) to deal with this and it will be sorted once and for all. Continuing to argue about this here is a waste of my time because it does not achieve an outcome either way.

GPWA is an affiliate board, not a player board so I do not believe they are responsible to settle this matter. There's nothing in the sponsor code of conduct that says we have to deal with player issues: https://www.gpwa.org/sponsor/codeofconduct.asp

• I am urged to amplify this matter and involve third parties to eventually achieve a fair solution.

This has been going on a week and you still haven't done this. Either do it, or don't. I'm not posting in this thread anymore.

Cheers

[DaftDog]

I'm making one last comment, then I'm done with this.

If the player files a complaint with the KGC, Mikki will contact the relevant person in our company (not me) to deal with this and it will be sorted once and for all. Continuing to argue about this here is a waste of my time because it does not achieve an outcome either way.

GPWA is an affiliate board, not a player board so I do not believe they are responsible to settle this matter. There's nothing in the sponsor code of conduct that says we have to deal with player issues: https://www.gpwa.org/sponsor/codeofconduct.asp



This has been going on a week and you still haven't done this. Either do it, or don't. I'm not posting in this thread anymore.

Cheers

If I had to treat my clients in this manner I wouldn't have any.

[xecutable]

Considering that the thread is started by someone who has been banned from casinomeister with the following reason:

"1.6 - No "Libelous" Posts. Do not make posts that could be considered libelous, defamatory, or posting merely to cause harm to another's business. Opinions are expected, but do not attack others with accusations of criminal activity unless this has been proven in a court of law."

I would be extremely cautious. The thread was quite similar.

An excerpt from page 4 of that thread:

" - "He had been told already that he couldn't take offers of more than 30%."

No Meister... I have not! This rule was applied retroactively.... - ". Some 7 years later... the same thing... Deja Vu?

[baldidiot]

I'm going to be honest - I'm so fricken' confused by this thread.

So the player deposited in Casino A and received the bonus in Casino B? Why is this even possible? Or are we talking about the casino rewards pooled comp points?

[thepogg]

So the player deposited in Casino A and received the bonus in Casino B? Why is this even possible? Or are we talking about the casino rewards pooled comp points?

We are talking about CRs pooled comp points, what you've got to understand is that when CR issue a bonus they issue it as comp points so it can be claimed in any casino account.

[Schankwart]

I believe that my posts in this forum display that I tried anything possible to achieve a fair solution, which unfortunately still has not happened. This forum of gpwa serves to discuss player issues as well because any honest affiliate selects their list of recommended casinos based on this information.

However, it is clear that Casino Rewards does not want to further discuss this issue as there are no terms that can be legally applied to support their claims.

The story that happened at Casinomeister years ago was entirely different and one should know the whole story, as it is being pulled out of its context. Anyone that has been in the casino business for long enough will understand that some casinos never stop trying to apply retroactive terms.

Yes, Casino Rewards credits all earned comp points and bonuses into one shared account, from where any player can chose to redeem the funds at any casino across the entire group. This is very uncommon but actually did not bother me until this matter occurred.

[Caruso]

GPWA is an affiliate board, not a player board so I do not believe they are responsible to settle this matter. There's nothing in the sponsor code of conduct that says we have to deal with player issues: https://www.gpwa.org/sponsor/codeofconduct.asp

Yick. What Ixian said just above. Not sure that's exactly the way to garner support.

However, I would point out this little snippet of the COC rules:

Sponsor Companies will not use unethical methods of promotion either directly or indirectly through others.

It's unethical to entice a player through bonuses, then not pay them on those same bonuses when they broke no rules. This would appear to put the matter within Michael's remit.

[Renee]

If the player files a complaint through the KGC, the casino group will comply with their ruling.

That is my last say on this. The player should go to KGC, get this sorted once and for all. The only reason the player wouldn't go to KGC is if they think they will rule in the casinos favour.

As I said previously, KGC is the ONLY way this will be sorted. So why not get the ball rolling and see what happens. Seems far more logical then everyone arguing and there being no action taken in the end, don't you think?

[Caruso]

I'm just saying that the COC here seems to allow for GPWA involvement.

GPWA is an affiliate organisation, but that doesn't mean they're somehow by definition not "allowed" to get involved in player issues. See the APCW Full Tilt etc reports. And again, note the COC passage I quoted.

[Renee]

I'm just saying that the COC here seems to allow for GPWA involvement.

GPWA is an affiliate organisation, but that doesn't mean they're somehow by definition not "allowed" to get involved in player issues. See the APCW Full Tilt etc reports. And again, note the COC passage I quoted.

I didn't say they are not allowed to get involved, I said I dont think it's their responsibility.

You're right, it does say that, but in context of the entire term, I would expect it to be in terms of affiliate promotions:

Responsible Promotion and Procedures

Sponsor Companies will be truthful in all promotions and publish only accurate information about their operations. Any rules and registration procedures affecting affiliates or the public will be made publicly available by the Sponsor Companies. Sponsor Companies will not use unethical methods of promotion either directly or indirectly through others.

I suppose everyone interprets terms differently, which is why this thread was started in the first place.

[GCG]

To be honest it is a players issue but it is still good to know how this bonus system works, thanks for that.

Spending your time here however to get it solved won't help you, this is a discussion board with affiliate promos, just saying.

[Gamb]

I think if affiliates trust GPWA and are active in forum GPWA should do something to partner casinos on player issues. If not I would go to another forum.

[xecutable]

So much sympathy towards someone who's obviously a bonus hunter, looks for the loopholes in the t&c's and makes money. I bet that if such player was registered via any of you, and was wiping your earnings month after month you would be begging for his ban.

Casinos don't apply restrictions to players for no reason know that. And making money off casinos isn't well taken don't know why everyone here acts like it's something normal. Just because it's legal through a loophole doesn't make it right. Judging on the dozen other similar topics I guess you do this for living as well. I doubt you will ever take legal actions as well!

Just like all other topics this one will get nowhere.