Accounting - how much do you pay?

[RacingJim]

A question to other full time affiliates, how much do you pay for your accounting?

Do you use a proper accounting 'company' or do you have a person doing it for you e.g. retired/part-time accountant or whatever.

I ask the question because I see my business as very simple, there are a fairly small number of predictable incomings every month i.e. affiliate program payments, and a similar small and predictable number of outgoings each month which tend to be hosting, domain names, SEO, telephone and internet.

I am currently using a local accountant company and being charged what I see as quite a high amount, around £1900 for this year. I feel this is unacceptably high for how simple a lot of the work is, I do my own book-keeping also.

This year's costs have included setting up as a limited company and registering for VAT and they manage the VAT for me, so I think there is some justification for increased costs, but not to the extent I am paying for how simple my books actually are.

Anyone prepared to comment on their own situation and what you're paying, what type of company you use etc? It would be very helpful to me so I can get a view of the landscape before potentially switching.

[casinobonusguy]

We pay $3000 Canadian just to have the corporate taxes filed and $165 a month for her to remit the taxes on our behalf for corporate and do the payroll ,if I need any help beyond that it is a $48 per hour fee(hst included).

[Doolally]

Hi Jim. I'm also in the UK and pay slightly less than you. I also do my own ongoing book-keeping.

The basic functions that my Accountant does is to check, compile and submit the year end accounts and submit to Companies House. They do a simple monthly remittance for wages and annual return submission. They also do self-assessment for myself and my Wife.

All in this is in the range of £1000 to £1200 a year, which I think is about par for the course - certainly when comparing it with other small businesses around here.

They are also a firm of Accountants so this will be full dues.

[RacingJim]

Hi Jim. I'm also in the UK and pay slightly less than you. I also do my own ongoing book-keeping.

The basic functions that my Accountant does is to check, compile and submit the year end accounts and submit to Companies House. They do a simple monthly remittance for wages and annual return submission. They also do self-assessment for myself and my Wife.

All in this is in the range of £1000 to £1200 a year, which I think is about par for the course - certainly when comparing it with other small businesses around here.

They are also a firm of Accountants so this will be full dues.

Are you VAT registered also? If so that's a fair bit cheaper than me which I guess would confirm my suspicions about paying at the high end of things.

[TheGooner]

We get a set of annual accounts collated from a spreadsheet I compile which lists all transactions and then summarises the earnings and expenses into the categories that were used last year.

The Accountant creates the accounts, presents them to us, once agreed he files the accounts and deals with any queries from Inland Revenue in the first instance. It's useful to have an accredited tax agent doing this, as it does reassure the taxman and minimise my involvement with the IRD.

We do our own GST (consumption tax like the UK VAT) because it's very simple to do - and do NOT have a PAYE payroll - instead paying simple directors fees.

It is good to have a qualified accountant that I can sit down with and discuss all the issues that come up. Topics like depreciation treatments on assets (cars, computers, furniture), capital gains (and losses) of forex, formal dividend payouts and imputation credits etc. I probably have 2 x 1 hour talks each year - plus annual account service.

We pay about $1500 NZD to an accounting firm - which is around half when valued in GBP - but then prices and standard of living out here are lower for services - so on a like for like basis you might consider it the same as 1500 GBP.

[sweetbet]

My second last accountant charged an arm and a leg, but the current one that I'm using now is very good value and charges me a fraction of what the former accountant charged me. It was just a matter of shopping around for me.

[casinoplanet]

I manage all financials myself. Over the years I've had 2 audits from the authorities and everything was just fine. I'm a fulltime affiliate without staff and spend about 4 hours per quarter on vat and maybe a day on the yearly tax return. It's not rocket science.

[edielaw1]

You either do not not have much income or joking - why would you waste time on such a thing when it is better to focus on the business and grow instead to waste time with uncommon work for you... no offence but I find it rather odd

I manage all financials myself. Over the years I've had 2 audits from the authorities and everything was just fine. I'm a fulltime affiliate without staff and spend about 4 hours per quarter on vat and maybe a day on the yearly tax return. It's not rocket science.

[Voids]

Hi Jim,

As a part time affiliate & full time accountant, I'd be happy to take a look at the quality your records (figures erased / changed of course) & give you a quick ball park.

Drop me a PM if you want.

[casinoplanet]

You either do not not have much income or joking - why would you waste time on such a thing when it is better to focus on the business and grow instead to waste time with uncommon work for you... no offence but I find it rather odd

My answer is no and no. I do not have a low income and I'm not joking.

The income isn't related to the administrative work at all. Whether I earn 1K from 25 casinos or 100K from 25 casinos, the amount of work remains the same. Tax administration in the Netherlands is quite straight forward and once you've setup a proper administration, it doesn't require much work. And don't forget, I have no personnel. If that would be the case, I'd definitely hire an accountant.

I've been working in the financial sector for more than 30 years, so that might be an advantage. But since I'm not a tax specialist, I did some serious inquiries with our tax authority before I started.

[thebookiesoffers]

I send my books to an accountant, he does everything. VAT registered and a limited company so without him i'd be in a right mess. Think I pay about £750 a year but probably a bit more. Whatever I do pay it is well worth it

[ocreditor]

Also sending everything to accountant which take care of everything, I pay monthly fixed fee of approximately 200 EUR.

[TheGooner]

I manage all financials myself. Over the years I've had 2 audits from the authorities and everything was just fine. I'm a fulltime affiliate without staff and spend about 4 hours per quarter on vat and maybe a day on the yearly tax return. It's not rocket science.

So what is your tax treatment on home office space used and depreciation for the various items?
How do you handle imputation credits on dividends paid when the legal ratio has changed during the period of earnings?
What about provisional tax payments and using the owners current account to minimise shortfalls on occasion?
What records do you need to keep to justify the claims you make on it? etc.

Some things you can muddle by on "do-it-yourself" especially if you have some experience in the field (e.g I do some basic PHP/MySQL coding as I was formerly an industrial programmer) but some things do also require professional guidance. Typically dealing with Tax authorities is the ONE area where getting it right matters.

I'm sure our accountant has generated appropriate value EACH year to more than justify their fees - and having the weight of a certified tax office standing beside the accounts also gives us "peace of mind" that we are treating the accounts correctly.

I would certainly recommend using an accountant for a couple of years at least to ensure that you understand the rules, regulations and liabilities.

[casinoplanet]

So what is your tax treatment on home office space used and depreciation for the various items?
How do you handle imputation credits on dividends paid when the legal ratio has changed during the period of earnings?
What about provisional tax payments and using the owners current account to minimise shortfalls on occasion?
What records do you need to keep to justify the claims you make on it? etc.

Some things you can muddle by on "do-it-yourself" especially if you have some experience in the field (e.g I do some basic PHP/MySQL coding as I was formerly an industrial programmer) but some things do also require professional guidance. Typically dealing with Tax authorities is the ONE area where getting it right matters.

I'm sure our accountant has generated appropriate value EACH year to more than justify their fees - and having the weight of a certified tax office standing beside the accounts also gives us "peace of mind" that we are treating the accounts correctly.

I would certainly recommend using an accountant for a couple of years at least to ensure that you understand the rules, regulations and liabilities.

As stated earlier, I've set up the administration after consulting our tax administration. Shortly after I started I had a first audit and received a report about my administrative setup, including approval. Several years later I had a second audit and it was approved again.

I think our legislation may differ quite a lot from other countries, but I'll explain my situation.
I'm registered as a one-man business, which only requires a quarterly vat declaration and a yearly income declaration. Corporate taxes aren't applicable, only personal income tax.
Being a home based one-man business, I'm not allowed to claim office space costs, car costs etc; I can only depreciate computer equipment. Well that's 1 pc and 1 printer.

Business costs are 99% ad campaigns (mainly non-vat) and some office costs, like ink, paper etc. Revenue is mainly non-vat (Malta, Gibraltar and non-EU licensees). For vat licensees (like UK) I quarterly send a declaration of my net revenue to an international division of our tax authority (forwarded taxes). The vat declaration itself therefore merely contains only a few office costs.

Every quarter I print revenue reports from the casinos and from my online wallets plus invoices of the ad campaigns etc. These costs are then linked to my business bank account report.
I have a simple profit/loss sheet and a balance sheet, which are also used for my yearly personal income tax declaration. That's it.

[justbookies]

Just to make you feel better, RacingJim, I pay £2k+vat for annual accounts of a ltd company. I do my own vat (inputting transactions into quickbooks accounting software every three months) and present the quickbooks file and supporting paperwork to accountant at year end for him to do annual accounts. So he gets it easy and I am overpaying (but he is city of london address so I have to pay for his silly rent and rates, rather than his expertise). I use other accountants for other businesses not related to this industry and they are all cheaper. I do find it hard to move accountant for a saving of a few hundred quid a year, though his costs still annoy me as I know cheaper options exist. If you are paying loads just ask yourself if you are happy with his work because in this industry £1000 extra over a year for something so important may not be a deal breaker.

Regarding VAT - If your accountant does your vat and you are 'flat rate' then I think it is much simpler for him. I am not flat rate but rather the normal system, and that is certainly a lot of work. So if your accountant is doing your vat and you aren't flat rate he deserves his higher money.

To the guy who does his own books - in the UK having your accounts done by a certified accountant lessens the risk of tax authorities doing investigations etc. That's because despite the reams of disclaimers an accountant's arse is still on the line, rather than a one-man band doing his own books, which can draw more attention. Also, however well you do them, you cant know all the angles and an accountant could save you a lot more than the cost you are saving by doing it yourself.

[RacingJim]

Just to make you feel better, RacingJim, I pay £2k+vat for annual accounts of a ltd company. I do my own vat (inputting transactions into quickbooks accounting software every three months) and present the quickbooks file and supporting paperwork to accountant at year end for him to do annual accounts. So he gets it easy and I am overpaying (but he is city of london address so I have to pay for his silly rent and rates, rather than his expertise). I use other accountants for other businesses not related to this industry and they are all cheaper. I do find it hard to move accountant for a saving of a few hundred quid a year, though his costs still annoy me as I know cheaper options exist. If you are paying loads just ask yourself if you are happy with his work because in this industry £1000 extra over a year for something so important may not be a deal breaker.

Regarding VAT - If your accountant does your vat and you are 'flat rate' then I think it is much simpler for him. I am not flat rate but rather the normal system, and that is certainly a lot of work. So if your accountant is doing your vat and you aren't flat rate he deserves his higher money.

To the guy who does his own books - in the UK having your accounts done by a certified accountant lessens the risk of tax authorities doing investigations etc. That's because despite the reams of disclaimers an accountant's arse is still on the line, rather than a one-man band doing his own books, which can draw more attention. Also, however well you do them, you cant know all the angles and an accountant could save you a lot more than the cost you are saving by doing it yourself.

Thanks, you have made me feel better, nope I'm not on the flat rate scheme so I guess it is more work in that way.

Also I guess I have to bear in mind those costs include a bit of messing round at the start when I was initially self-employed, then went to limited company, then went to VAT registered within about 6-9 months time frame.

Hopefully when things settle down I might be able to get it down to more around £1200-£1500 level with this same accountants.

[jackpotgenius]

The figures being quoted seem around about similar to what I pay which is in the region of £1500 a year, that includes quarterly VAT returns, annual accounts and a self assessment...maybe location makes a difference, as long as they save you more than they cost and its all above board then I'm happy

I'd second justbookies on you cant beat having a qualified accountant take a look, they legislation is ever changing and its their job to keep up to speed with it, you need to attend endless training seminars on a regular basis that just makes it cheaper to pay in the long run.

[baldidiot]

Mine is also over £2k, but they do all the bookkeeping for me too, as well as payroll, VAT and SA returns for myself and the wife.

Sounds like I could probably get it a little cheaper, but the guy knows his stuff and is very familiar with affiliate marketing, which makes life a heck of a lot easier so I'm happy with what I get for the price I pay.

On the other hand my first accountant was £300, and lets just say you really do get what you pay for...

[casinovegas]

Mine is also over £2k, but they do all the bookkeeping for me too, as well as payroll, VAT and SA returns for myself and the wife.

Sounds like I could probably get it a little cheaper, but the guy knows his stuff and is very familiar with affiliate marketing, which makes life a heck of a lot easier so I'm happy with what I get for the price I pay.

On the other hand my first accountant was £300, and lets just say you really do get what you pay for...

Totally agree with you, you get what you pay for. Our company accounts cost around 2k per year for the same, payroll, SA, book keeping, anual return and VAT.

[casinoplanet]

To the guy who does his own books - in the UK having your accounts done by a certified accountant lessens the risk of tax authorities doing investigations etc. That's because despite the reams of disclaimers an accountant's arse is still on the line, rather than a one-man band doing his own books, which can draw more attention. Also, however well you do them, you cant know all the angles and an accountant could save you a lot more than the cost you are saving by doing it yourself.

I noticed that many of you have their business registered as Ltd (that's called a BV in Holland) which indeed requires a lot more administrative work, including payroll etc. In that case you'll definitely need a good accountant, but since I'm registered as a one man business, a quite simple administration is enough. A consultant advised me to consider a BV (Ltd) as soon as profits exceed 120K.